Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[Dangerscouse]

Could also be feet too low.

Yeah, i didn't think of that.

[Nomark]

You're overcompressing at the catch, and the momentum carrying you forward is then working against you as you then push off.

Also make sure that you're keeping the handle low enough, as if the trajectory is a bit too high you'll naturally not ground yourself which could also be a factor. Low enough is a question of small degrees, so don't think it needs to be dramatic.

Could also be feet too low.

Thank you both for the tips. It could actually be all of that! It did feel like my momentum was still heading forwards and then I'd snap a bit too quickly. My hands also tend a bit high, especially when my stroke breaks down a bit at higher rates - didn't realize this could cause problems.
I'll check some videos and compare my foot position in case it's too low. I think I can see what you mean, if feet are too low I'll be pushing myself up off the seat rather than backwards.

Holding the 2:20.6 was uncomfortable enough that as I head into the longer rows I think I'm going to keep them at the 2:22. Obviously I had gas left in the tank but I don't want to end every long row drained.

This has been my constant issue with steady state which took me about 6+ weeks to sort out, starting too slow, then going too fast and pulling back just a little. I think I've found a happy pace now finally. Obviously we could do it faster but we aren't supposed to otherwise we would be permanently exhausted. But how slow is too slow? Sounds like you are figuring it out though. Plus our fitness has room to improve and the plan really helps with that, so while 2:20 might be too fast now, it could be perfect in a months time. Just have to take it week by week, I guess. This comment isn't turning out as helpful as I anticipated... lol

[PleaseLockIn]

You're overcompressing at the catch, and the momentum carrying you forward is then working against you as you then push off.

Also make sure that you're keeping the handle low enough, as if the trajectory is a bit too high you'll naturally not ground yourself which could also be a factor. Low enough is a question of small degrees, so don't think it needs to be dramatic.

Could also be feet too low.

Thank you both for the tips. It could actually be all of that! It did feel like my momentum was still heading forwards and then I'd snap a bit too quickly. My hands also tend a bit high, especially when my stroke breaks down a bit at higher rates - didn't realize this could cause problems.
I'll check some videos and compare my foot position in case it's too low. I think I can see what you mean, if feet are too low I'll be pushing myself up off the seat rather than backwards.

Holding the 2:20.6 was uncomfortable enough that as I head into the longer rows I think I'm going to keep them at the 2:22. Obviously I had gas left in the tank but I don't want to end every long row drained.

This has been my constant issue with steady state which took me about 6+ weeks to sort out, starting too slow, then going too fast and pulling back just a little. I think I've found a happy pace now finally. Obviously we could do it faster but we aren't supposed to otherwise we would be permanently exhausted. But how slow is too slow? Sounds like you are figuring it out though. Plus our fitness has room to improve and the plan really helps with that, so while 2:20 might be too fast now, it could be perfect in a months time. Just have to take it week by week, I guess. This comment isn't turning out as helpful as I anticipated... lol

How slow is too slow? When the HR is below 55% of the HRR it goes below UT2. I do my steady rows below my UT2, at a very comfortable pace. Mine is 27:07 5k R20 this time, which is bonkers. However, I was very tired, and I tried to keep my HR below 160. There was no cardiac drift so that was decent.

If I don't feel motivated at all but want to finish it, I just "Screw it" and go for the row regardless of pace.

Somehow, my steady state watts are ~40-45% of my previous 2k PB. But people are different. My HR seems to run hot but with little cardiac drift. My steady state keeping below 160 HR is surprisingly slow, but my PBs are much faster.

I would train very slowly, trying to keep HR below 160. It would be useful for me later, as I know my issue is probably base fitness and not strength. After the BPP I plan to do a lot of steady state for the final push. I assume by then I would have enough power to hold 1:59 30r20, the issue would be fitness.

[Citroen]

How slow is too slow? ... Mine is 27:07 5k R20 this time, which is bonkers.

That is too slow. You should be doing 5K in closer to 20:00 even at R20.

Don't let HR control your rowing, you won't achieve anything like that. Look at HR after the workout to see how your did, not the other way round.

[PleaseLockIn]

How slow is too slow? ... Mine is 27:07 5k R20 this time, which is bonkers.

That is too slow. You should be doing 5K in closer to 20:00 even at R20.

To be fair, I used my Apple Watch, which overestimated my HR, but still... plugging in my numbers, I tried to keep my HR down, and that just didn't work.

As I barely got sub 8 2k at r28 some time ago. I might try a TT later... but after I finish other priorities in life.

[iain]

I don't think we can predict others time without specific rowing data. But SS should still feel like work. Only after 5.5mm of rowing since I started back in a sorry state have I finally reached the point that I can maintain a decent stroke on SS at R20. Before this lead to significant HR drift. On SS you are trying to increase your stroke volume so make the heart work hard while not overly stressed. I found stroke volume was so low when I restarted that even 80% HR was a low RPE. I would say monitoring HR gives an insight into recovery and current status, but only really by comparing to your previous numbers, all of the %ages etc. are broad guides only, so you can't take them as being appropriate for you.

[Nomark]

How slow is too slow? ... Mine is 27:07 5k R20 this time, which is bonkers.

That is too slow. You should be doing 5K in closer to 20:00 even at R20.

I don't think that is a helpful comment and may encourage bad training behaviors. This is a beginners thread and we are talking about steady state. There is no such thing as too slow (within reason, it's not like he took 90 minutes!). I did 6k in 29 minutes a few weeks ago @23, which is in the same ball park as PLI and it was a good session for me.

[dmuskett]

How slow is too slow? ... Mine is 27:07 5k R20 this time, which is bonkers.

That is too slow. You should be doing 5K in closer to 20:00 even at R20.

I don't think that is a helpful comment and may encourage bad training behaviors. This is a beginners thread and we are talking about steady state. There is no such thing as too slow (within reason, it's not like he took 90 minutes!). I did 6k in 29 minutes a few weeks ago @23, which is in the same ball park as PLI and it was a good session for me.

I have seen comments like this before in other places. People don't understand that everyone is different. I note that for people in my age rank (40s, heavyweight) the 50th percentile (non steady state) on a 5k is over 20 minutes. I don't understand any suggestion that beginners should be doing a 5k in 20 minutes, much less on a steady state style row.

[Dangerscouse]

That is too slow. You should be doing 5K in closer to 20:00 even at R20.

I don't think that is a helpful comment and may encourage bad training behaviors. This is a beginners thread and we are talking about steady state. There is no such thing as too slow (within reason, it's not like he took 90 minutes!). I did 6k in 29 minutes a few weeks ago @23, which is in the same ball park as PLI and it was a good session for me.

I have seen comments like this before in other places. People don't understand that everyone is different. I note that for people in my age rank (40s, heavyweight) the 50th percentile (non steady state) on a 5k is over 20 minutes. I don't understand any suggestion that beginners should be doing a 5k in 20 minutes, much less on a steady state style row.

FWIW, I really doubt that I'd have been able to achieve close to 5k in 20 mins as a newbie. I generally don't aim for that pace at r20 even nowadays.

It's been many years so I can't recall for certain what I was rowing at, but I fully endorse that newbies should be as slow or fast as they are, assuming that they're doing everything correctly with the relevant intensities for each type of session

[Sakly]

In the end there is no too fast or too slow in pace perspective. Everyone has a different starting point, different body type and different technique. So noone can estimate a target pace for someone who is starting this thing called indoor rowing.

I am in my 40s and already was when I started. I could pull a sub 18:30 5k on the first try. But I was already training for several years and had a fairly good stamina. My training partner (training the same stuff for at least 7 years, he played tennis on a high level as well, same body type/size/weight, but stronger than me) would never be able to pull that even now, despite already having trained a several times on the erg. And he is 7 years younger than me. His 2k is over 30s slower than mine.
All I want to say is: even looking at two similar people, the outcome can be so much different.