Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[Nomark]

Regardless, I did 3.3 today and was thinking about rates. I find it quite comfortable and natural to stay at 18 SPM, but I am definitely stronger as opposed to possessing of aerobic fitness.

I was/am the same with more strength than fitness (and I'm not even very strong! :sad face:) and found myself at quite slow rates but it has been beneficial to me to play around with my stroke. I did it deliberately as a way of working on what I'm weakest kind of thing as well as mixing things up helps because I have a short attention span so it keeps things interesting for me. I see you ramped it up at the end which I think is a good idea because it's virtually impossible to spend 80% of your time at <20 SR and then try and do a 30+ interval. YMMV but consider some interval like SS sessions where you do the first split at 18 then one at 22/24 then back to 18 or whatever you feel like. I don't know what your experience on the erg is but as a newbie myself I found just playing at different strokes rates gave my body some vital feedback and knowledge that it didn't have before which has benefited all of my rows even if it means I am not being as optimum as I could be day to day. My understanding is that the goal is to have a consistent(ish) stroke power at all rates and then you can increase wattage proportionally by increasing rate (i.e. 200W@20 and 300W@30), but in the meantime just getting the feeling of moving quicker sometimes helps me.

[p_b82]

I personally think it is more about volume & load + individual's time/habits + recovery ability.

Most plans recognise that it is good to do mixed work - far too much evidence around to say that a single training stimulus eventually causes stagnation.

More volume = fitter as a sweeping statement - until the point that the body can't recover.

the more training you do, the more you condition your body to recover - but this is done gradually/slowly over years not months; that's how some folks can crank out HM + with relative ease multi times a week.

Ideally therefore any of us should push hard enough every session we do so that the next time we do some exercise we are recovered enough to give that session 100%. it makes it easy to add volume by doing it at a slower pace - because otherwise everything becomes too much and the body/mind says no....

We're going a bit OT here, but it comes back round to Jcross's point from the end of last year of "are we training too easy" - and made me realise the answer to that for me personally was yes - even though I thought it was no at the time!

[alex9026]

I stop completely. Get off the erg, have a drink walk around a bit. Try and get my heart rate down. I think you are supposed to do some light strokes to stay loose, but you are supposed to warm up as well apparently

I don't have any issues restarting each round.

Pretty much how I approached today's session. Although, any short interval pieces I wouldn't sacrifice a warm up, even if it is just five minutes of easy rowing.

[Nomark]

Week 8.3 - 8,000m. Felt good today after a rest yesterday. No target in mind, just trying to keep SR around 22. Not the best consistency but I blame the TV for that.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	S/M	
37:09.9	8,000m	2:19.3	22
7:26.1	1,600m	2:19.4	22
7:24.1	3,200m	2:18.7	23
7:28.7	4,800m	2:20.2	22
7:24.6	6,400m	2:18.9	22
7:26.3	8,000m	2:19.4	22

[mitchel674]

BPP 2.2 is 4x750m, r2.
Pete suggests going at the previous 6x500m pace which was 2:09. Easy session for me as I like to settle in at 28spm for my interval training. I probably should be faster on these, but I don't like to push the times this early in the plan.

[iain]

BPP 2.2 is 4x750m, r2.
Pete suggests going at the previous 6x500m pace which was 2:09. Easy session for me as I like to settle in at 28spm for my interval training. I probably should be faster on these, but I don't like to push the times this early in the plan.

We are all different (as 2k rates vary from 28 to over 40), but I would add for less experienced ergers that 750s are very different to 500s and so this is a step up at the same pace. Re rating, I would aim for >2k rating for 500s (2 greater where 3' rest, probably 1 for these shorter intervals, at least to start) but 2k rating for 750s.

[PleaseLockIn]

BPP 2.2 is 4x750m, r2.
Pete suggests going at the previous 6x500m pace which was 2:09. Easy session for me as I like to settle in at 28spm for my interval training. I probably should be faster on these, but I don't like to push the times this early in the plan.

We are all different (as 2k rates vary from 28 to over 40), but I would add for less experienced ergers that 750s are very different to 500s and so this is a step up at the same pace. Re rating, I would aim for >2k rating for 500s (2 greater where 3' rest, probably 1 for these shorter intervals, at least to start) but 2k rating for 750s.

I would be a bit careful on raising the rating, otherwise it could lead to weakening the stroke in exchange for higher rating. It also depends on the goals.

I am simply doing this in an attempt to get a 1:59-ish 30r20 so I do these intervals at r24 and hold them at this pace. Occasionally I might try some higher rate work just to see if I can keep the same W/stroke at higher ratings.

Anyways, i started small and worked my way up. 2:04.x, 2:04.x, 2:03.x, 2:03.x, 2:03, 2:01.x, all at r24. After the 6th I felt like it was a decent workout but I had quite a bit in the tank left. I can always push myself later. at least I managed it.

Reflection—consistently paced the strokes, held it through. 750 will be a step up but hopefully I will be able to hold the pace at r24. Eventually I will work up to holding ~243.6W at r24 for intervals. This is the same W/stroke as my trial standard for next year. It isn't a bad session - I've seen a lot worse. Coming in to train is important too!

I do the SS stuff just below UT2, which makes a lot more sense for me considering I have other things. Tournaments in other activities, other sports (especially PE), weight training (high reps, as my endurance sucks) etc.

I started the BPP by doing the distance pieces as hard distance pieces. Never again. That was too much and ate into my recovery a lot.

[Dangerscouse]

I would add for less experienced ergers that 750s are very different to 500s and so this is a step up at the same pace. Re rating, I would aim for >2k rating for 500s (2 greater where 3' rest, probably 1 for these shorter intervals, at least to start) but 2k rating for 750s.

Yep. Another rower on Instagram always says '500s for pose; 750s for pros', and he's right.

[Dangerscouse]

My understanding is that the goal is to have a consistent(ish) stroke power at all rates and then you can increase wattage proportionally by increasing rate (i.e. 200W@20 and 300W@30), but in the meantime just getting the feeling of moving quicker sometimes helps me.

That is the goal, but in reality it's more nuanced than that. Different stroke rates, as you've found out, will give you different effects, both positive and negative, so understanding how it feels and how you react to r18 up to r30 is always worthwhile understanding.

There will inevitably be an unseen tipping point where it becomes detrimental to increase stroke rate as you can't deliver enough oxygen, utilise enough oxygen and/or clear enough CO2 to maintain the effort.

I always suggest that you should broadly aim to have a fairly small range range of paces for each stroke rate, but then you shouldn't be concerned about some days just letting it increase or decrease based on specifics on that day. Intuition is a gift that needs to be nurtured and developed as otherwise you're assumptions dictate your decisions and you might miss some great opportunities

[KevinJGK]

I would add for less experienced ergers that 750s are very different to 500s and so this is a step up at the same pace. Re rating, I would aim for >2k rating for 500s (2 greater where 3' rest, probably 1 for these shorter intervals, at least to start) but 2k rating for 750s.

Yep. Another rower on Instagram always says '500s for pose; 750s for pros', and he's right.

Just getting back into rowing after a VERY long layoff.

I used to follow the Wolverine Plan which prescribed the following short intervals.

8 x 500m, 3:30 rest
5 x 750m, 4:15 rest
4 x 1k, 5min rest

If done with maximum effort, these could be used as an indicator of potential 2K pace. 8 x 500m, was supposed to be around 2 to 3 seconds faster than 2K potential, 5 x 750m was 1 to 2 seconds faster and 4 x 1K was around 1 - 3 seconds slower although of course this would vary person to person.

[Nomark]

Week 8.5 1000x3, 3min rest. I decided to skip 8.4 as I didn't feel like a SS today so went for an interval.

It's true what others have said, trying to do 3x1000 at the same pace as 7x500 is *hard*! Maybe too hard. I can barely feel my legs. They were shaking after the second rep, but I powered through with the help of Britney. Not usually a fan of the princess of pop, but having her shout "you'd better work, b!tch" in my ear helped focus the mind somewhat. And I do want a Maserati.

Last 3x1,000 3/12/24 2:00.7
Target 7x500 5/1/25 1:56.5

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	S/M	
11:37.8	3,000m	1:56.3	222	28
3:53.1	1,000m	1:56.5	221	28
3:52.9	1,000m	1:56.4	222	28
3:51.9	1,000m	1:55.9	225	28

Oh and I decided to stop being lazy and did a 2k gentle warm up with some short sharp bursts which I'm sure helped too.

One negative which I should mention but is hard to describe, is that at higher rates (30+) I was exploding at the catch with what almost felt like a little jump out the seat. I can't imagine that that's good, and something to keep an eye on/ practice not doing.

[Dangerscouse]

One negative which I should mention but is hard to describe, is that at higher rates (30+) I was exploding at the catch with what almost felt like a little jump out the seat. I can't imagine that that's good, and something to keep an eye on/ practice not doing.

You're overcompressing at the catch, and the momentum carrying you forward is then working against you as you then push off.

Also make sure that you're keeping the handle low enough, as if the trajectory is a bit too high you'll naturally not ground yourself which could also be a factor. Low enough is a question of small degrees, so don't think it needs to be dramatic.

[nick rockliff]

One negative which I should mention but is hard to describe, is that at higher rates (30+) I was exploding at the catch with what almost felt like a little jump out the seat. I can't imagine that that's good, and something to keep an eye on/ practice not doing.

You're overcompressing at the catch, and the momentum carrying you forward is then working against you as you then push off.

Also make sure that you're keeping the handle low enough, as if the trajectory is a bit too high you'll naturally not ground yourself which could also be a factor. Low enough is a question of small degrees, so don't think it needs to be dramatic.

Could also be feet too low.

[iain]

Re relative paces, I'm sure that all agree that 500 - 750 - 1k at the same pace is a significant increase in effort even if the total distance decreases a little. Never did BPP with Pete so only surmising, but I suspect that the pacing is intended to reflect a variation in the workouts from easier to moderate to hard. One criticism of the Lunchtime Plan that was the major Plan used from Pete when this was devised was that the maximisation of every interval workout was increasingly hard to maintain and most people fairly quickly reach a point where they are struggling after a few cycles (partly because most start too fast...). So while it works to sharpen for a race, it wasn't a long term plan. Pete may have deliberately varied the intensity of the intervals in the BPP.

[dmuskett]

BPP 3.4 Pete said: " [5000m] – Aim for the same pace as you did for your 6000m in the last session, and try to speed up a little then within the last 1000m."

My last 6k was a 2:20.7.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
23:15.7	5,000m	2:19.5	129	743	19	154
4:41.0	1,000m	2:20.5	126	734	19	141
4:41.2	2,000m	2:20.6	126	733	19	152
4:40.7	3,000m	2:20.3	127	735	19	156
4:41.4	4,000m	2:20.7	126	732	19	159
4:31.4	5,000m	2:15.7	140	782	19	165

Holding the 2:20.6 was uncomfortable enough that as I head into the longer rows I think I'm going to keep them at the 2:22. Obviously I had gas left in the tank but I don't want to end every long row drained.