Wolverine....or just erg hard....always.

[mike365]

I'm a 42 year old guy who's been erging for 3 months, with 357,455 meters so far. I started out in pretty bad shape (my first flat out 20 minute session was at a 2:27 pace), and still have a long way to go. I can now do a 10K@2.11 pace, 5K@2.07, 2K@2.00, and 1K@1.53 pace. My next major goals are a 20 minute 5k, then a 40 minute 10k.

The fun thing is that I set a new PB in almost every session.

Here is my strategy....5 workouts per week. one 10k, one 5K, one 30 minute, one interval day (pyramid or 1:00 work/1:00 rest), and one day with a 5K warmup (HRate@70%MAX) followed by a 2K flat out. I am doing some strengh training 2 days/week.

I was wondering if I should change a couple of my workouts to include some Level 4 wolverine sessions. I'm not convinced of the value of this yet, since I've been trying to reduce my stroke rate and thus increase my power per stroke during all of my sessions (the 1K was done at 25 spm, the 10 K at 21).

It seems to me that to row at 16 SPM at a 2.30 pace (as prescribed in some parts of the level four plan) is taking a huge step back.

Wouldn't it be as usefull for me to do my 10K workouts, as I have been doing, but vary the SPM from 16 to 22 in order to increase power? I just can't let the score go below 2.11 now that I know I can do it for 10k (except of course during interval recoveries).

Does anyone have any idea how long it should take me to reach my 10K goal at this rate?

Any help would be appreciated.

Mike

[TabbRows]

Mike,

First congrats on getting going with the erg and accomplishments to date.

There are many training regimes on these boards that offer training for various goals. It seems to me that your goals might be more suited for Pete's Plan if you want to focus on10K and 5K distances. So do a search in these forums and on the UK forum for Pete's Plan and see if that is closer to what you are looking to do. There are recent threads here that look at Pete's "Lunch Hour" Plan which focuses on 5 K distance.

If you're looking at the Wolverine Plan, please review all the literature carefully and read and re-read M.C.'s rationale behind every workout. But remeber the WP is a full training regime and there are goals and objectives and timelines to be considered. It isn't designed to have only selected portions used and ignore the other workouts in the Plan.

I've liked Level 4 workouts because they help me get through the longer times on the erg by varying the pacing. But they also helped me focus on technique. I think of the varying in stroke rate as applying the same amount of pressure with the legs when I'm at 16/18 as I do at 24/26 and therefore achieve the faster pace at 24/26 while maintaining technique, i.e., not adding extra back or arms, or overextending the reach at the catch.

As I see it, the purpose of Level 4 type workouts is to build endurance and strength, something that you're not necessarily going to achieve if all you do is fast intervals. So it's not a step backwards at all rather an building block for a stronger base. It also help promote recovery. It takes time to recovery completely from faster paced workouts. Even Pete's Plan has rest/recovery days and longer steady state rows.

There are numerous folks on these boards with more experience and know-how on training effectively, please read their thoughts when selecting the training regime that looks best to you.

Good Luck.

[snowitall]

Pete has a blog that gives a good overview of the Pete Plan and also his modified 5k training plan. They are worth checking out.

http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/

[iain]

I am a relative novice, but it seems accepted wisdom that real fitness improvements only occur during the recovery from training sessions. Initially you can make huge gains from improved technique and using your experience to realise you can push harder, but this levels off. At that point you need to improve your underlying fitness, a much slower process. Giving yourself a chance to recover from all harder sessions should thus (it is argued), lead to quicker performance gains than only recovering on rest days, so 3 hard days alternated by 2 easy days works better. It also reduces the risk of overtraining.

In addition, when times level off, the motivation of PBs become scarcer and it is harder to maintain motivation. A more balanced workout e.g. PP http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/ gives further targets to keep this going.

Care is needed at low rate workouts as the temptation is to exaggerate the back movement in a way not sustainable at racing ratings. In addition, I believe that racing pace is a combination of power (controlled by strength and endurance) and rating (largely controlled by breathing, but at extremes by the extra exertion required). So to optimise times, it is necessary to practice rowing at faster ratings.

As for L4 WP, I have used these in isolation from the full WP (So as to pacify MC, these become WP "influence", as he rightly points out that he accepts no responsibility if you change his program), These are designed for 40 min+ and I find that these are most useful to keep the interest on workouts at below optimum pace. I seem to remember that the 18 average is designed for 60 min. rows, with 20 starting for 40 min rows. But there is nothing to stop you using the technique at whatever rating combinations suit your aims. So, for instance, I have done 4,3,2,1 min pyramids at 22, 24, 26 & 28 SPM. Also, as your times improve, you will find that the times don' look so ludicrous.

I say all of this as someone who rowed for 6 months flat out, rarely over 10' per session and then ignored pacing suggestions on plans thereafter. I dipped in performance and am now on a better structured program and am making headway again.

Best of luck whatever you decide and congratulations on a good start.

Iain

[PaulS]

Seperate your "Hard" days with "Recovery" days, which can be either easy rowing or days off. Starting back in 2001 in much the same situation as yourself. (M39, way out of shape. On July 9, I did a 5k @ 2:12 and thought I was going to die.) 5 days a week, about 30 minutes/day, progressed to compete at ErgoMania in January for a 2k in 6:36. I did have previous rowing experience, but had been away from it for 17 years, so a fair illustration of progress that can be made in 6 months. Oh, and I'm quite lazy too, thus the 5 days/week with w/e's off schedule.

[Mike Caviston]

I'm a 42 year old guy who's been erging for 3 months, with 357,455 meters so far. I started out in pretty bad shape (my first flat out 20 minute session was at a 2:27 pace), and still have a long way to go... The fun thing is that I set a new PB in almost every session.

Yes, these are fun times. Enjoy them while they last. Beginners will show improvement whatever they do, often in spite of themselves (that, by the way, is a general observation and not a criticism of your training). But in the months to come when progress slows and the sessions aren’t always so much fun, you’ll have to put a little more thought into structuring your training to allow further development. The great success of the Wolverine Plan is that it has helped experienced rowers already performing at an elite level to make substantial gains. For those with lower expectations or less ambition, a derivative imitation of the WP will do.

[PaulS]

I'm a 42 year old guy who's been erging for 3 months, with 357,455 meters so far. I started out in pretty bad shape (my first flat out 20 minute session was at a 2:27 pace), and still have a long way to go... The fun thing is that I set a new PB in almost every session.

Yes, these are fun times. Enjoy them while they last. Beginners will show improvement whatever they do, often in spite of themselves (that, by the way, is a general observation and not a criticism of your training). But in the months to come when progress slows and the sessions aren’t always so much fun, you’ll have to put a little more thought into structuring your training to allow further development. The great success of the Wolverine Plan is that it has helped experienced rowers already performing at an elite level to make substantial gains. For those with lower expectations or less ambition, a derivative imitation of the WP will do.

Would that be the Wolverine High Intensity Plan Providing Enhanced Discipline (WHIPPED) that you are currently working on, Or the future Wolverine High Altitude Plan (WHAP)?

[Bob S.]

Would that be the Wolverine High Intensity Plan Providing Enhanced Discipline (WHIPPED) that you are currently working on, Or the future Wolverine High Altitude Plan (WHAP)?

Have you tried working out one for WIMP? That's for those of us who are too lazy to study over the full Wolverine Plan and apply it properly.

Bob S.

[PaulS]

Would that be the Wolverine High Intensity Plan Providing Enhanced Discipline (WHIPPED) that you are currently working on, Or the future Wolverine High Altitude Plan (WHAP)?

Have you tried working out one for WIMP? That's for those of us who are too lazy to study over the full Wolverine Plan and apply it properly.

Bob S.

I would never even attempt such a thing!

Though the Wolverine High Altitude Low Openning Plan (WHALOP) does have a nice ring to it.

[PaulG]

I'm in a similar situation as Mike365 as I started erging seriously a few months ago and have set PRs in 7 different distances every time I try. I realize these happy times will not last. I suggest you take a look at the Concept2 UK site and download their custom training program. I would be interested in what more experienced people think of these custom programs. I have been following one carefully for several weeks, and I get the feelng that it is too easy. Of course I can always go harder. With regard to rest days, I am 51 and usually do not erg two days in a row, but that may change as I feel I am getting in better shape. By the second day my legs are back and I am ready to go again. When you are just starting out I consider rest days to be very important to avoid injury and boredom.

Paul

[iain]

How about the "Wolverine Infantile Maintenance Plan"?

PaulG: A few comments on the IP. I assume that you have chosen the plan appropriate to someone of your fitness (there are 5 levels). Also, they build up quite rapidly, so you may find it doesn't stay quite so easy for long. It is based around 2k times. If you are improving rapidly, you may need to retest and rebase the different paces. Alternatively, set the pace based on heart rate.

That's the official answer. But, broadly I agree with you. Based on my times, 2-3S/500m below the bands would seem more realistic, but I am too inexperienced to advocate this. As someone who has trained too fast in the past, I now understand the benefit of easier sessions, so UT2 sessions should leave you feeling capable of doing them again after a short rest, while UT1 should leave you breathing hard, but recovering quickly and not exhausted. This seems strange at the start as it is a few weeks before you do anything faster than UT1 and the AT is introduced very gradually.

I personally prefer the PP which (in its initial formulation) pushes you 3 times a week to a near death experience after a few cycles, although there is a variant discussed for easing off if this is too tough week in week out.

You also might like to read the thread on IP in this forum to see how others doing the whole program progressed.

Whatever you choose, the most important thing is to enjoy it as you are unlikely to keep going otherwise.

- Iain

[Pete Marston]

As your 10k was at 21spm, and your 1k at 25spm, what you need to improve your times is increased fitness. This will simply come from training, whatever you do.

Yes, these are fun times. Enjoy them while they last. Beginners will show improvement whatever they do, often in spite of themselves.

Putting some structure into your training now will help in the long run, and speed up the improvements in the short term. Variety in your training will also keep it more interesting.

The great success of the Wolverine Plan is that it has helped experienced rowers already performing at an elite level to make substantial gains..

This is a great way to assess any training plan. As Mike has pointed out, when you're new to erging pretty much any training method will bring about improvement. Gaining those improvements in people who are already performing at a high level and have been training for many years is more difficult. The Pete Plan has given a number of athletes in this group a great training boost, and brought new personal best times for some athletes who had been training and competing at a very high level for a number of years.

For those with lower expectations or less ambition, a derivative imitation of the WP will do.

If stroking power was your weakness, the Wolverine Plan may well bring about better improvements in this early stage than most other training plans. As I said to begin with though, as your best times are done at such low stroke rates anyway it is just basic fitness you need to begin with, and any structure will help with that. I would caution against any training method where you do too much low rate, high power rowing though, or that is what you will train yourself to be good at.

I think if you look at the training performances of most people who follow training plans with a large proportion of low rate, high power rowing, you will find that their low rate distance performances are much better compared to their free rate distance, or 2000m times, than those following plans advocating slightly higher rates for the majority of the distance rowing. Put another way, for the same training performances, people following the Pete Plan (for example) will generally out perform those following the Wolverine Plan over 2000m.

Pete
www.thepeteplan.com

[TomR]

Are you saying people who follow the pete plan row faster than people who follow the wolverine plan?

[Pete Marston]

Are you saying people who follow the pete plan row faster than people who follow the wolverine plan?

No, what I'm saying is that if you're aiming for a fast 2k time from your training, as most of us are, then you want to get the best possible 2k time in comparison to your training paces. Therefore it could be argued that the most successful training plan is the one that produces the fastest 2k time from the training paces of the athlete.

You often see Ranger argue the converse, telling people that from their 2k pace they should be rowing distance pieces, especially at low rates, faster. This is nonsense, it is the people rowing the low rate distance pieces faster that should alter their training to be able to row their 2k faster.

Which would you rather be, someone who can row 35k at 1:48 pace and 2k at 1:35, or someone who can only row 35k at 1:52 pace, but row 2k at 1:33? In terms of overall fitness the former may be more impressive, but in erg racing the later is superior.

[TomR]

Pete,

To discuss the WP and then use deranged as an example almost qualifies as contempt of the forum. Behave yourself, or we'll have to call a baliff.

To be intellectually honest, you should be comparing those who train at higher rates and faster paces vs those who genuinely follow a program that includes low rate work, like the WP or Eddie's training. If I'm not mistaken, medalists have followed each of those programs. I don't see how the low-rate work has hurt their racing.

I don't disagree with you that an excessive reliance on low-rate work can lead to distortion in one's paces, but the WP (as one example) includes race pace work all year round, so one always remains acquainted with his or her speed, and any power developed at low rates is routinely applied at higher rates.