I searched the archives and see a similar post in 2004, but it was a bit different.
My orthopedic doc told me Monday that I can't row any more. He said I've got osteoarthritis in both knees and rowing disintegrates them more quickly. I used to have chronic dislocation and had lateral release on each knee when I was 15. No further dislocations but I've had the crackling behind my kneecaps for years, when going up or down stairs. One knee "catches," which is a sign of eroding cartilege, and I either have inflammation or a meniscal tear. He said normal kneecaps glide with almost no friction and mine are like velcro. They are still off center - that can't be fixed without breaking the tibia and moving that attached tendon to the center, then screwing it to the bone.
Anyway, I can't imagine not rowing, but I also don't want to hasten a knee replacement. Has anyone else dealt with knee arthritis? Has anyone continued rowing with it? I'm pursuing natural remedies to help my knees and am hoping that within some years they will have a medical way to rebuild cartilege. In the meantime I guess I will do half-slide and arm exercises, and teach my kids how to erg so it gets some use.
Thanks,
Shannon
Knee arthritis & rowing
Re: Knee arthritis & rowing
[quote="jfaction"][i]I searched the archives and see a similar post in 2004, but it was a bit different.
My orthopedic doc told me Monday that I can't row any more. He said I've got osteoarthritis in both knees and rowing disintegrates them more quickly. I used to have chronic dislocation and had lateral release on each knee when I was 15. No further dislocations but I've had the crackling behind my kneecaps for years, when going up or down stairs. One knee "catches," which is a sign of eroding cartilege, and I either have inflammation or a meniscal tear. He said normal kneecaps glide with almost no friction and mine are like velcro. They are still off center - that can't be fixed without breaking the tibia and moving that attached tendon to the center, then screwing it to the bone.
Anyway, I can't imagine not rowing, but I also don't want to hasten a knee replacement. Has anyone else dealt with knee arthritis? Has anyone continued rowing with it? I'm pursuing natural remedies to help my knees and am hoping that within some years they will have a medical way to rebuild cartilege. In the meantime I guess I will do half-slide and arm exercises, and teach my kids how to erg so it gets some use.
Thanks,
Shannon[/quote][/i]
Hello Shannon,
First of all, I'm sorry to hear of your orthopedic problem.
Secondly, Robhen is correct that Glucosamine, especially in combination with Chondroitin, often helps arthritic knees.
Third, a few years ago my wife had a problem of arthritis in her right knee and was given a regimen of SYN-VISC (spelling may not be 100% correct). This is a hyaluronic acid gel that is injected in to the meniscus of the knee to improve lubricity and reduce the "bone-on-bone" rubbing associated with arthritis. The relief is purportedly good for 6-18 months.
At teh sqme time my wife asked our orthopedist as to the viability and effectiveness of glucosamine. He stated that there is some evidence as to effectiveness, and said that if she chooses to try it she should use a product called Cosamin DS. It's more expensive than most competitors, but supposedly of excellent, and consistent, quality.
Well, my wife takes 2 capsules daily and as noted above, it is 3 or 4 years and she feels fine.
Conclusion, first see you doctor abour the Syn-Visc treatment. Should he or she concur, have the treatment and inquire vis-a-vis glucosamine/chondroitin.
Best of luck and feel better.
My orthopedic doc told me Monday that I can't row any more. He said I've got osteoarthritis in both knees and rowing disintegrates them more quickly. I used to have chronic dislocation and had lateral release on each knee when I was 15. No further dislocations but I've had the crackling behind my kneecaps for years, when going up or down stairs. One knee "catches," which is a sign of eroding cartilege, and I either have inflammation or a meniscal tear. He said normal kneecaps glide with almost no friction and mine are like velcro. They are still off center - that can't be fixed without breaking the tibia and moving that attached tendon to the center, then screwing it to the bone.
Anyway, I can't imagine not rowing, but I also don't want to hasten a knee replacement. Has anyone else dealt with knee arthritis? Has anyone continued rowing with it? I'm pursuing natural remedies to help my knees and am hoping that within some years they will have a medical way to rebuild cartilege. In the meantime I guess I will do half-slide and arm exercises, and teach my kids how to erg so it gets some use.
Thanks,
Shannon[/quote][/i]
Hello Shannon,
First of all, I'm sorry to hear of your orthopedic problem.
Secondly, Robhen is correct that Glucosamine, especially in combination with Chondroitin, often helps arthritic knees.
Third, a few years ago my wife had a problem of arthritis in her right knee and was given a regimen of SYN-VISC (spelling may not be 100% correct). This is a hyaluronic acid gel that is injected in to the meniscus of the knee to improve lubricity and reduce the "bone-on-bone" rubbing associated with arthritis. The relief is purportedly good for 6-18 months.
At teh sqme time my wife asked our orthopedist as to the viability and effectiveness of glucosamine. He stated that there is some evidence as to effectiveness, and said that if she chooses to try it she should use a product called Cosamin DS. It's more expensive than most competitors, but supposedly of excellent, and consistent, quality.
Well, my wife takes 2 capsules daily and as noted above, it is 3 or 4 years and she feels fine.
Conclusion, first see you doctor abour the Syn-Visc treatment. Should he or she concur, have the treatment and inquire vis-a-vis glucosamine/chondroitin.
Best of luck and feel better.
Barry
65, 5'6",172 Lbs.
Exercise for life!
65, 5'6",172 Lbs.
Exercise for life!
Sorry to hear the bad news about your knees. I've had difficulties also and found that I was among those who did not notice a difference after trying glucosamine and chond. for several years.
I've found two things that for me have been helpful, although I think of them both as quack remedies. However, if quack remedies help . . .
The first thing that seems to help me is wrapping an ace bandage just below the knee when I exercise. I think it ends up working in a manner similar to the benefits of doing leg extensions to balance the leg muscles so they don't push the knee out of place. Leg extensions didn't help me despite years of strong effort (I figured extra strength in the legs couldn't hurt my rowing!).
The second quacky remedy is one I'm almost ashamed to admit to but was helpful. I came across an "arthritis diet" book and was desperate enough to try anything. I tend to be quite a skeptic but gave it a try and went from planning my day to minimize how many steps I had to take (but, of course, not stopping rowing) to doing somewhat okay.
For both of these approaches I've tried discontinuing them and then resuming them and have found that they feel like they make a pronounced difference (although to be honest I only resume the arthritis diet when my knees are particularly unhappy, since I love pizza). Of course, that pattern could be pure placebo effect.
Anyway, if you find any solutions that work for you would you post them? I think that there's a good chance my knees' days are numbered and, like you, hope to keep them going as long as I can.
Best of luck,
David
I've found two things that for me have been helpful, although I think of them both as quack remedies. However, if quack remedies help . . .
The first thing that seems to help me is wrapping an ace bandage just below the knee when I exercise. I think it ends up working in a manner similar to the benefits of doing leg extensions to balance the leg muscles so they don't push the knee out of place. Leg extensions didn't help me despite years of strong effort (I figured extra strength in the legs couldn't hurt my rowing!).
The second quacky remedy is one I'm almost ashamed to admit to but was helpful. I came across an "arthritis diet" book and was desperate enough to try anything. I tend to be quite a skeptic but gave it a try and went from planning my day to minimize how many steps I had to take (but, of course, not stopping rowing) to doing somewhat okay.
For both of these approaches I've tried discontinuing them and then resuming them and have found that they feel like they make a pronounced difference (although to be honest I only resume the arthritis diet when my knees are particularly unhappy, since I love pizza). Of course, that pattern could be pure placebo effect.
Anyway, if you find any solutions that work for you would you post them? I think that there's a good chance my knees' days are numbered and, like you, hope to keep them going as long as I can.
Best of luck,
David
Shannon, it sounds like you have a couple of things going on.
First is your gender: As women we have wider hips which creates a greater angle between our hip joint and knee joint. This is called the "Q" angle. Because of this our knee caps are pulled laterally (outside edge) of the knee joint. You said you had a lateral release while a teenager, presumably to help counteract that, as well as treat the chronic patellar dislocations you had experienced. I don't know how much damage was done to the bone and cartilage from those dislocations. In some people not much, other times it can shear cartilage from bone or even fracture the bone when this occurs. Certainly has potential to predispose to premature osteoarthritis.
As previously has mentioned, leg strengthening can be helpful here. The quadraceps muscle is composed of four muscles, vastus- lateralis, intermedius and medialus, and rectus femoris. Vastus medialus, the one on the inner portion of the leg, is often weak, allowing the kneecap to deviate lateraly. Leg extension exersizes can help with this, either on a machine, with bands, or even just standing on one leg, hand on a chair for support and bending the knee partially to dip downward, then straightening back to full standing. I do between 25-50 times per leg each day. Vastus medialus is engaged in the last 20 degrees of leg extension (staightening). Stengthening this muscle may help.
You don't say if you have had an MRI. MRI would allow you to see if osteophytes have formed, if you have meniscal tears, evaluate thinning, errosion or defects of cartilage, look for subchondral cyst formation and look at ligaments. x-ray will only evaluate bone. You can determine if you have a torn meniscus ( a frequent cause of knee catching), and how severe chondromalacia patella ( what creates the grinding sensation under your knee cap), is as well looking for cartilage injuries and other degenerative changes. This will give you an idea of how severe the osteoarthritis is.
Chondroitin and glucosamine have shown benefits in several controlled studies. Consumer reports did an evaluation of different Chondroitin and glucoamine supplements about a year or so ago. May want to look at what they have to say.
My understanding is that people with osteoarthritis generally do better if they maintain some amount of exersize. you will probably want to check with your doctor before doing any strenthening work. May also want to consider a second opinion.
One last idea: if I were told I had an internally rotated tibia, I would find an osteopathic physician (D.O.) who speciallizes in osteopathic manipulative medicine. I would have them look at the alignment of my feet, ankles, knees, hips and pelvis to make sure that restrictions of range of joint motion, muscle or fascia tension was not a contributing factor. the better the alignment of the joint, and the less tension it is working against, the less the wear and tear.
Good luck and keep us posted on how you do. Pam
First is your gender: As women we have wider hips which creates a greater angle between our hip joint and knee joint. This is called the "Q" angle. Because of this our knee caps are pulled laterally (outside edge) of the knee joint. You said you had a lateral release while a teenager, presumably to help counteract that, as well as treat the chronic patellar dislocations you had experienced. I don't know how much damage was done to the bone and cartilage from those dislocations. In some people not much, other times it can shear cartilage from bone or even fracture the bone when this occurs. Certainly has potential to predispose to premature osteoarthritis.
As previously has mentioned, leg strengthening can be helpful here. The quadraceps muscle is composed of four muscles, vastus- lateralis, intermedius and medialus, and rectus femoris. Vastus medialus, the one on the inner portion of the leg, is often weak, allowing the kneecap to deviate lateraly. Leg extension exersizes can help with this, either on a machine, with bands, or even just standing on one leg, hand on a chair for support and bending the knee partially to dip downward, then straightening back to full standing. I do between 25-50 times per leg each day. Vastus medialus is engaged in the last 20 degrees of leg extension (staightening). Stengthening this muscle may help.
You don't say if you have had an MRI. MRI would allow you to see if osteophytes have formed, if you have meniscal tears, evaluate thinning, errosion or defects of cartilage, look for subchondral cyst formation and look at ligaments. x-ray will only evaluate bone. You can determine if you have a torn meniscus ( a frequent cause of knee catching), and how severe chondromalacia patella ( what creates the grinding sensation under your knee cap), is as well looking for cartilage injuries and other degenerative changes. This will give you an idea of how severe the osteoarthritis is.
Chondroitin and glucosamine have shown benefits in several controlled studies. Consumer reports did an evaluation of different Chondroitin and glucoamine supplements about a year or so ago. May want to look at what they have to say.
My understanding is that people with osteoarthritis generally do better if they maintain some amount of exersize. you will probably want to check with your doctor before doing any strenthening work. May also want to consider a second opinion.
One last idea: if I were told I had an internally rotated tibia, I would find an osteopathic physician (D.O.) who speciallizes in osteopathic manipulative medicine. I would have them look at the alignment of my feet, ankles, knees, hips and pelvis to make sure that restrictions of range of joint motion, muscle or fascia tension was not a contributing factor. the better the alignment of the joint, and the less tension it is working against, the less the wear and tear.
Good luck and keep us posted on how you do. Pam
Shannon,
I'm a rower and orthopod (though I'm not a sports specialist) and I have the same problem, though to a lesser degree (so far...).
I had given up running after high school because of my knees and took up rowing thinking this was better for them. I was wrong but fell in love with the sport and rowed anyway. Rowing is hard on the patellofemoral joint--the joint made between the kneecap and the end of the thigh bone. Over time, in knees like ours that don't align so well, we wear down the nice smooth cartilage and turn it into a fuzzy frayed surface that causes friction in a previously frictionless system. The result is pain and more wear and tear, aka arthritis.
Pam is right about exercises to build up the vastus medialis which is the inner portion of the quadriceps mucle. This helps improve/maintain better 'tracking' of the kneecap along its groove. Unfortunately, this works only in the mildest of cases. When the anatomy we're born with is off enough, there is no amount of quad strengthening that will make a significant difference. That being said, I still do tons of inner quad exercises--I figure every little bit helps.
Glucosamine combined with chondroitin sulfate is still under investigation. It does appear to alleviate symptoms of arthritis, we just don't have the science to back it up yet. But there are numerous studies underway looking at this. In the meantime, in my experience, patients tell me it really works...my mom even takes it and tells me it makes a big difference.
Another option is something called McConnell taping. It works better for sports that don't require as much knee flexion as rowing since it tends to pull off pretty quickly when rowing, but it worked reasonably well for me in college. It's a taping method that pulls the kneecap over to a more anatomic position. Looks silly, but easy to self apply once taught and feels good even if its only for a short period of time before it falls off. There are a number of braces for patellar tracking that have been made to reproduce this, but I have yet to find one that actually works for me. The method can be found online if you google McConnell taping, but I would recommend having someone (trainer, physical therapist, etc) show it to you to ensure it's done properly.
So, yes, rowing is not so good for bumming kneecaps. My knees are pretty crunchy for someone my age (33) but right now I still need to row and am willing to suffer the consequences. If you do decide to stop rowing or decrease your rowing, also keep in mind that joints need motion to stay healthy and 'lubricated,' and maintaing quad strength helps the patellofemoral joint, so it's still good to keep active. And I think second opinions are always a good idea...you might seek one out. Medicine is as much art as science. The science just gives us guidelines, our experiences teach us the rest--hence the term 'medical opinion.'
Good luck, tough decision.
Erika
I'm a rower and orthopod (though I'm not a sports specialist) and I have the same problem, though to a lesser degree (so far...).
I had given up running after high school because of my knees and took up rowing thinking this was better for them. I was wrong but fell in love with the sport and rowed anyway. Rowing is hard on the patellofemoral joint--the joint made between the kneecap and the end of the thigh bone. Over time, in knees like ours that don't align so well, we wear down the nice smooth cartilage and turn it into a fuzzy frayed surface that causes friction in a previously frictionless system. The result is pain and more wear and tear, aka arthritis.
Pam is right about exercises to build up the vastus medialis which is the inner portion of the quadriceps mucle. This helps improve/maintain better 'tracking' of the kneecap along its groove. Unfortunately, this works only in the mildest of cases. When the anatomy we're born with is off enough, there is no amount of quad strengthening that will make a significant difference. That being said, I still do tons of inner quad exercises--I figure every little bit helps.
Glucosamine combined with chondroitin sulfate is still under investigation. It does appear to alleviate symptoms of arthritis, we just don't have the science to back it up yet. But there are numerous studies underway looking at this. In the meantime, in my experience, patients tell me it really works...my mom even takes it and tells me it makes a big difference.
Another option is something called McConnell taping. It works better for sports that don't require as much knee flexion as rowing since it tends to pull off pretty quickly when rowing, but it worked reasonably well for me in college. It's a taping method that pulls the kneecap over to a more anatomic position. Looks silly, but easy to self apply once taught and feels good even if its only for a short period of time before it falls off. There are a number of braces for patellar tracking that have been made to reproduce this, but I have yet to find one that actually works for me. The method can be found online if you google McConnell taping, but I would recommend having someone (trainer, physical therapist, etc) show it to you to ensure it's done properly.
So, yes, rowing is not so good for bumming kneecaps. My knees are pretty crunchy for someone my age (33) but right now I still need to row and am willing to suffer the consequences. If you do decide to stop rowing or decrease your rowing, also keep in mind that joints need motion to stay healthy and 'lubricated,' and maintaing quad strength helps the patellofemoral joint, so it's still good to keep active. And I think second opinions are always a good idea...you might seek one out. Medicine is as much art as science. The science just gives us guidelines, our experiences teach us the rest--hence the term 'medical opinion.'
Good luck, tough decision.
Erika
Thanks for the replies.
Robhen, I did get some glucosamine, thanks for your sympathy too. I used to take it before my last pregnancy and found it helpful.
Barry, my doc mentioned that injection. I was not too keen on it at first but have read good things about hyaluronic acid. I'll try to work up my nerve for the injection, and will look for that Cosamin DS.
David, the notion that diet is a factor seems very reasonable to me. I know there are some studies beginning to circulate showing that lectins may be problematic for some. Did the arthritis diet help you?
Pam, I'm due for an MRI on Monday. Thanks for all of the details about the knee condition. I have not been so diligent about the small movement strengthening exercises that you mention, even though I know about them. I suppose I assumed that the rowing itself was adequate. I will definitely go get bodywork done to help my alignment, that's a great suggestion.
Erika, thanks too for all of the information. I will have my orthopedist show me the McConnell taping. I have my old knee braces (with the bars on the side and the hole for the kneecap) but they are almost certainly too tight now. I got them before I started rowing in college and my thighs got much more muscular.
I bought a book on natural arthritis support (diet, supplements, exercise) that looks competent. I can update with the recommendations as I get into the book, if others are interested in that.
Thanks, I really appreciate all of the input,
Shannon
Robhen, I did get some glucosamine, thanks for your sympathy too. I used to take it before my last pregnancy and found it helpful.
Barry, my doc mentioned that injection. I was not too keen on it at first but have read good things about hyaluronic acid. I'll try to work up my nerve for the injection, and will look for that Cosamin DS.
David, the notion that diet is a factor seems very reasonable to me. I know there are some studies beginning to circulate showing that lectins may be problematic for some. Did the arthritis diet help you?
Pam, I'm due for an MRI on Monday. Thanks for all of the details about the knee condition. I have not been so diligent about the small movement strengthening exercises that you mention, even though I know about them. I suppose I assumed that the rowing itself was adequate. I will definitely go get bodywork done to help my alignment, that's a great suggestion.
Erika, thanks too for all of the information. I will have my orthopedist show me the McConnell taping. I have my old knee braces (with the bars on the side and the hole for the kneecap) but they are almost certainly too tight now. I got them before I started rowing in college and my thighs got much more muscular.
I bought a book on natural arthritis support (diet, supplements, exercise) that looks competent. I can update with the recommendations as I get into the book, if others are interested in that.
Thanks, I really appreciate all of the input,
Shannon
Hi Shannon,
I just went through a knee rebuild, and someone on the forum turned me on to this website.
KneeGeeks Forum
It has a section for everything that was suggested, and more. The injections sounded good to me until I read the forum discussions. They seem to be all over the map, so I stopped thinking about them for now.
In September I had an acl rebuild and a torn meniscus repair and general cleanup. The surgery was very successful and I'm back to rowing. However my lower back is beginning to fuse from my arthritis. To slow the progress I need to keep flexible so the rowing is essential. I will simply be doing it at a slower pace and low drag so I won't hurt myself. If it wasn't for the rower my back would hurt a lot more. Thanks to it I have good muscle development in my torso.
Back to the knee-The diet does help, however I don't think the glucosamine does much. Icing it after an exercise session is good if you are experiencing much pain or inflammation.
I use an elastic knee bandage when I row or hike or garden or whatever. I also have a knee brace with supportive hinges on either side. If I have to I will wear it...
grams
I just went through a knee rebuild, and someone on the forum turned me on to this website.
KneeGeeks Forum
It has a section for everything that was suggested, and more. The injections sounded good to me until I read the forum discussions. They seem to be all over the map, so I stopped thinking about them for now.
In September I had an acl rebuild and a torn meniscus repair and general cleanup. The surgery was very successful and I'm back to rowing. However my lower back is beginning to fuse from my arthritis. To slow the progress I need to keep flexible so the rowing is essential. I will simply be doing it at a slower pace and low drag so I won't hurt myself. If it wasn't for the rower my back would hurt a lot more. Thanks to it I have good muscle development in my torso.
Back to the knee-The diet does help, however I don't think the glucosamine does much. Icing it after an exercise session is good if you are experiencing much pain or inflammation.
I use an elastic knee bandage when I row or hike or garden or whatever. I also have a knee brace with supportive hinges on either side. If I have to I will wear it...
grams
(great) grams 71 yo 5'3"
5 kids, 6 grandkids, 1 great-granddaughter
Marathon mugs available at http://www.zazzle.com/grammms Profits go to charity
5 kids, 6 grandkids, 1 great-granddaughter
Marathon mugs available at http://www.zazzle.com/grammms Profits go to charity
HI there,
A few studies (I'm not sure how controlled they were) have shown a correlation between the consumption of different fatty acids and OA. Omega 6 fats tend to increase inflammation and thus worsen the condition, whilst omega 3s decrease it... My rheumatologist is fairly compelled by this data, but not, on the other hand, by the purported efficacy of glucosamine and chondroitin.
Good luck!
Z
A few studies (I'm not sure how controlled they were) have shown a correlation between the consumption of different fatty acids and OA. Omega 6 fats tend to increase inflammation and thus worsen the condition, whilst omega 3s decrease it... My rheumatologist is fairly compelled by this data, but not, on the other hand, by the purported efficacy of glucosamine and chondroitin.
Good luck!
Z
Re: Knee arthritis & rowing
I had an arthroscopy in December to tidy up the outside cartilidge and flush out the joint. I had experienced restricted bending and some pain.
The knee feels much better and bends as well as the other one now.
I visited the surgeon for follow up consultation yesterday. He was expecting to be booking me in for a knee replacement based on the photos of the femeral and tibia surfaces showing the cartildge covering almost completely gone. He thought my mobility would be poor and there would be pain.
So, it feels great but doc says it's worn out. There is something going on I don't understand. Doc also says rowing is the worst thing for my knees and I should expect deterioration quite quickly.
I ergo every day and row as often as possible. I race regularly.
Movements stimulates lubrication in the joint. Exercise strengthens the quads which hold the knee together. But rowing loads the joint and accelerates wear.
I can't really contemplate giving up rowing so I am looking for information to help me manage the knee and keep it going as long as possible. Best exercise routines etc.
Also I would like to research alternatives to replacement surgery. Doc says an artificial knee will not stand the loads and movement of rowing.
The knee feels much better and bends as well as the other one now.
I visited the surgeon for follow up consultation yesterday. He was expecting to be booking me in for a knee replacement based on the photos of the femeral and tibia surfaces showing the cartildge covering almost completely gone. He thought my mobility would be poor and there would be pain.
So, it feels great but doc says it's worn out. There is something going on I don't understand. Doc also says rowing is the worst thing for my knees and I should expect deterioration quite quickly.
I ergo every day and row as often as possible. I race regularly.
Movements stimulates lubrication in the joint. Exercise strengthens the quads which hold the knee together. But rowing loads the joint and accelerates wear.
I can't really contemplate giving up rowing so I am looking for information to help me manage the knee and keep it going as long as possible. Best exercise routines etc.
Also I would like to research alternatives to replacement surgery. Doc says an artificial knee will not stand the loads and movement of rowing.
Oldoar
I am sorry for your news. I hope others have helpful advice, because I'm in the same boat. I have been meaning to post an udpate on my knees after having seen an ortho surgeon.
He doc told me I can't row any more (like your surgeon he told me rowing is horrible for knees). When I was a teenager my knees used to dislocate - each knee would pop out of socket about once a month. I had them both operated on but that was after two years of dislocation. So when they started hurting again last month (while rowing) I went to have them checked.
He said the dislocations damaged the cartilege and because they aren't aligned properly, rowing is disintegrating the cartilege. The tendon across the patella attaches off center on my tibias, toward the outside edge, which will keep them prone to dislocation and will keep them poorly aligned (and thus wearing out). The only way to fix that is break the tibia where the tendon attaches, move that attached tendon to the center, then screw it to the bone.
I had an MRI and on one side of the patella all of the cartilege is worn away to the bone, same on the femur. I cannot even fully bend my knee - I made the mistake of sitting on my heels one evening and when I straightened my leg something in the knee stuck (since there's no cartilege to reduce friction) and I could not walk on it for a week. It made me appreciate what the doc said and not try to cheat and row (as I'd been thinking of doing).
He has told me I will need a knee replacement but is trying to put it iff as king as possible since they don't last forever and I'm 39. I"m hoping they discover how to regenerate cartilege before then, so I can have the tendon realigned and avoid a replacement.
He doc told me I can't row any more (like your surgeon he told me rowing is horrible for knees). When I was a teenager my knees used to dislocate - each knee would pop out of socket about once a month. I had them both operated on but that was after two years of dislocation. So when they started hurting again last month (while rowing) I went to have them checked.
He said the dislocations damaged the cartilege and because they aren't aligned properly, rowing is disintegrating the cartilege. The tendon across the patella attaches off center on my tibias, toward the outside edge, which will keep them prone to dislocation and will keep them poorly aligned (and thus wearing out). The only way to fix that is break the tibia where the tendon attaches, move that attached tendon to the center, then screw it to the bone.
I had an MRI and on one side of the patella all of the cartilege is worn away to the bone, same on the femur. I cannot even fully bend my knee - I made the mistake of sitting on my heels one evening and when I straightened my leg something in the knee stuck (since there's no cartilege to reduce friction) and I could not walk on it for a week. It made me appreciate what the doc said and not try to cheat and row (as I'd been thinking of doing).
He has told me I will need a knee replacement but is trying to put it iff as king as possible since they don't last forever and I'm 39. I"m hoping they discover how to regenerate cartilege before then, so I can have the tendon realigned and avoid a replacement.
For anyone who suffers from arthritis, this is probably something to try assiduously to see if it helps: it can’t “hurt.” http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/arthritis.html Here is an excerpt of the key changes in diet:jfaction wrote:I am sorry for your news. I hope others have helpful advice, because I'm in the same boat. I have been meaning to post an udpate on my knees after having seen an ortho surgeon.
He doc told me I can't row any more (like your surgeon he told me rowing is horrible for knees). When I was a teenager my knees used to dislocate - each knee would pop out of socket about once a month. I had them both operated on but that was after two years of dislocation. So when they started hurting again last month (while rowing) I went to have them checked.
He said the dislocations damaged the cartilege and because they aren't aligned properly, rowing is disintegrating the cartilege. The tendon across the patella attaches off center on my tibias, toward the outside edge, which will keep them prone to dislocation and will keep them poorly aligned (and thus wearing out). The only way to fix that is break the tibia where the tendon attaches, move that attached tendon to the center, then screw it to the bone.
I had an MRI and on one side of the patella all of the cartilege is worn away to the bone, same on the femur. I cannot even fully bend my knee - I made the mistake of sitting on my heels one evening and when I straightened my leg something in the knee stuck (since there's no cartilege to reduce friction) and I could not walk on it for a week. It made me appreciate what the doc said and not try to cheat and row (as I'd been thinking of doing).
He has told me I will need a knee replacement but is trying to put it iff as king as possible since they don't last forever and I'm 39. I"m hoping they discover how to regenerate cartilege before then, so I can have the tendon realigned and avoid a replacement.
The Four-Week Anti-Arthritis Diet (adapted from Foods That Fight Pain, by Neal Barnard, M.D.)
For four weeks, include generous amounts of foods from the pain-safe list in your routine. [MRES: see below.]
At the same time, scrupulously avoid the major triggers. [MRES: see below.]
It is important to avoid these foods completely, as even a small amount can cause symptoms.
Foods that are not on either list can be consumed, so long as you are emphasizing the arthritis-safe foods and scrupulously avoiding the major triggers.
You may well experience benefits earlier than four weeks, but for some people it can take this long for chronically inflamed joints to cool down.
Pain-Safe Foods
Pain-safe foods virtually never contribute to arthritis or other painful conditions. These include
* Brown rice
* Cooked or dried fruits: cherries, cranberries, pears, prunes (but not citrus fruits, bananas, peaches or tomatoes)
* Cooked green, yellow, and orange vegetables: artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, chard, collards, lettuce, spinach, string beans, summer or winter squash, sweet potatoes, tapioca, and taro (poi)
* Water: plain water or carbonated forms, such as Perrier, are fine. Other beverages – even herbal teas – can be triggers.
* Condiments: modest amounts of salt, maple syrup, and vanilla extract are usually well-tolerated.
After four weeks, if your symptoms have improved or disappeared, the next step is to nail down which one or more of the trigger foods has been causing your problem. Simply reintroduce the foods you have eliminated back into your diet one at a time, every two days.
Have a generous amount of each newly reintroduced food, and see whether your joints flare up again. If so, eliminate the food that seems to have caused the problem, and let your joints cool down again. Then continue to reintroduce the other foods. Wait at least two weeks before trying a problem food a second time. Many people have more than one food trigger.
It is not recommended to bring meats, dairy products, or eggs back into your diet. Not only are they major triggers, but they also encourage hormone imbalances that may contribute to joint pain, and also lead to many other health problems.
Avoid Major Arthritis Triggers
1. Dairy products*
2. Corn
3. Meats**
4. Wheat, oats, rye
5. Eggs
6. Citrus fruits
7. Potatoes
8. Tomatoes
9. Nuts
10. Coffee
*All dairy products should be avoided: skim or whole cow’s milk, goat’s milk, cheese, yogurt, etc.
**All meats should be avoided: beef, pork, chicken, turkey, fish, etc.
Other Approaches
For some arthritis patients, supplements of certain essential fatty acids have been helpful. They should be thought of as a medicine, rather than a food. A typical regimen would include a tablespoon of flaxseed oil with 500 mg of blackcurrant oil (or three capsules of evening primrose oil) twice each day. If it is helpful, it should be reduced to the lowest effective dose. Some people also benefit from an herb called feverfew, taken two to three times per day. (Caution: Do not take feverfew if you are pregnant.)
These supplements are available in health food stores.
References
1. Panush RS, Carter RL, Katz P, Kowsari B, Longley S, Finnie S. Diet therapy for rheumatoid arthritis. Arthritis and Rheumatism 1983;26:462-71.
2. Lithell H, Bruce A, Gustafsson IB, et al. A fasting and vegetarian diet treatment trial on chronic inflammatory disorders. Acta Derm Venereol 1983;63:397-403.
3. Sobel D. Arthritis: What Works. New York, St. Martin's Press, 1989.
4. Skoldstam L, Larsson L, Lindstrom FD. Effects of fasting and lactovegetarian diet on rheumatoid arthritis. Scand J Rheumatol 1979;8:249-55.
5. Skoldstam L. Fasting and vegan diet in rheumatoid arthritis. Scand J Rheumatol 1986;15:219-23.
6. McDougall J, Bruce B, Spiller G, Westerdahl J, McDougall M. Effects of a very low-fat, vegan diet in subjects with rheumatoid arthritis. J Altern Complement Med. 2002 Feb;8(1):71-5.
7. Hafstrom I, Ringertz B, Spangberg A, von Zweigbergk L, Brannemark S, Nylander I, Ronnelid J, Laasonen L, Klareskog L. A vegan diet free of gluten improves the signs and symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis: the effects on arthritis correlate with a reduction in antibodies to food antigens. Rheumatology (Oxford). 2001 Oct;40(10):1175-9.
8. Hanninen, Kaartinen K, Rauma AL, Nenonen M, Torronen R, Hakkinen AS, Adlercreutz H, Laakso J. Antioxidants in vegan diet and rheumatic disorders. Toxicology. 2000 Nov 30;155(1-3):45-53.
9. Muller H, de Toledo FW, Resch KL. Fasting followed by vegetarian diet in patients with rheumatoid arthritis: a systematic review. Scand J Rheumatol. 2001;30(1):1-10.
10. Merry P, Grootveld M, Lunec J, Blake DR. Oxidative damage to lipids within the inflamed human joint provides evidence of radical-mediated hypoxic-reperfusion injury. Am J Clin Nutr 1991;53:362S-9S.
Mike
"Sometimes we have to do more than our best, we have to do what is required." Winston Churchill
Completed the Certificate Program in Plant-Based Nutrition through eCornell and the T. Colin Campbell Foundation, January 11, 2011.
"Sometimes we have to do more than our best, we have to do what is required." Winston Churchill
Completed the Certificate Program in Plant-Based Nutrition through eCornell and the T. Colin Campbell Foundation, January 11, 2011.
Mike,Steelhead wrote:For anyone who suffers from arthritis, this is probably something to try assiduously to see if it helps: it can’t “hurt.” http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/arthritis.html Here is an excerpt of the key changes in diet:
The Four-Week Anti-Arthritis Diet (adapted from Foods That Fight Pain, by Neal Barnard, M.D.)
For four weeks, include generous amounts of foods from the pain-safe list in your routine. [MRES: see below.]
At the same time, scrupulously avoid the major triggers. [MRES: see below.]
That is too much of a generalisation. When I checked out the URL, I found that this exremely restrictive diet was recommended for rheumatiod arthritis, not the degenerative arthritis that most of us develop in old age. I ran this by my daughter, who had been a family practice physician, and she pointed out that rheumatoid arthritis is a disease of the immune system and this diet is designed to try to track down the foods that create allergenic problems with the immune system. Rheumatoid arthritis is indeed a very crippling disease, but not as common as plain old degenerative arthritis.
When I read over that diet, my first reaction was astonishment that the only grain allowed was rice. Even oats, which are highly touted as beneficial, are on the list of nonos.
Bob S.