Unpopular Query - HRM/Activity Trackers

[curryholic]

Apologies in advance for asking an unpopular question (and prepared for a roasting!)... I've been erg'ing for a bit now with a Polar Verity Sense arm based HRM that I wear at the elbow end of my forearm. I'm thinking of getting something new as I keep rubbing it on my knee and the strap gets worn funny.

I'm happy to splash out a bit for a wrist based activity tracker (eg. Polar Vantage v2 or 3, Garmin Venu 2 Plus or Fenix 6 or even a Suunto 9...) as I'd like to use it for both erging and walking, etc and more than just a HRM. I've also just been looking at the Coros version. I've also seen trainers using Fenix 7 and other watches.

I've read historic posts on here and elsewhere that the HRM part of watch based devices isn't as good as a strap on (ooer!) whether arm or chest. But surely nowadays this has been resolved or are they still classed as demon spawn?

Many TIA,
Dave

[JaapvanE]

I've read historic posts on here and elsewhere that the HRM part of watch based devices isn't as good as a strap on (ooer!) whether arm or chest. But surely nowadays this has been resolved or are they still classed as demon spawn?

I use a Garmin Epix (Gen 2, not the pro), which is identical with the Garmin Fenix 7, aside its AMOLED screen.

The big issue with rowing is arm/wrist movement. The optical sensor moves too much with respect to your skin, resulting in bad readings. I had a Venu and it kinda worked, but also it didn't as I often missed data. On the Epix I used it a couple of times when my HRM strap had battery issues. To work on my arm and (lack of) rowing technique, it needs to be pretty tight, which makes it uncomfortable during rowing.

I always row with a chest strap, which connects to the PM5 and my watch. The Epix and Fenix can also read data from the PM5, which I use. The watch will add breathing rate, etc. to this. Based on that, it will calculate recovery time, etc..

[jcross485]

Speaking from an N = 1 perspective (mine only), wrist based HR is fine if you are at rest, otherwise I don't pay attention to it. I wear a chest strap if I want to track HR during activity as it seems to be much more accurate and it reacts quicker to increases / decreases in HR. I love my Garmin watch (Fenix 6x) and use it to track other metrics but I always go to my chest strap for HR and some of the other things that mine will spit out. When it comes to rowing, I really only use ErgZone, the PM5, and my chest strap.

[igoeja]

I've only recently gotten back into rowing on the erg but my experience over the years has been positive with the watch-based fitness reading - I use a Samsung 5 Pro - although I do think there are times the looseness of the fit can lead to lower HR readings. I am not obsessive about the accuracy of the HRM for any of my workouts, since I tend to be more focused on my breathing as an indication of my effort Over the years it has matched my heart rate well, with single breaths per stroke for lighter aerobic work, double per stroke for anaerobic workouts, etc. That said, I use my watch more than just for rowing on the erg, at various times using it while on the ski erg, treadmill, or stair climber, as well as for long intense walks around Manhattan.

[Elizabeth]

I don't think I have seen anyone say the words "demon spawn", but a wrist sensor is not accurate enough that I would trust it for any reasonably hard stuff where I want to see my HR. It's fine at rest, or for something like yoga.

This is a full race recorded with a Garmin watch; I forgot to pack my chest HRM.
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activ ... nique_id=8

Based on RPE, my HR was around 170-190.

I love the watch for tracking stuff like distance, and it mainly gets pace about right (sometimes the pings cause things to be a little off), but HR is not one of its strengths. A HR strap costs quite a bit less and will connect directly to the erg. My husband does this without using any sort of fitness watch.

[Joebasscat]

I don't think I have seen anyone say the words "demon spawn", but a wrist sensor is not accurate enough that I would trust it for any reasonably hard stuff where I want to see my HR. It's fine at rest, or for something like yoga.

This is a full race recorded with a Garmin watch; I forgot to pack my chest HRM.
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activ ... nique_id=8

Based on RPE, my HR was around 170-190.

I love the watch for tracking stuff like distance, and it mainly gets pace about right (sometimes the pings cause things to be a little off), but HR is not one of its strengths. A HR strap costs quite a bit less and will connect directly to the erg. My husband does this without using any sort of fitness watch.

Avg HR 102, 1:51/500 SPM avg 33. No benefit. I get these kind of whack numbers as well with a wrist device, so while always on, pay no attention. Chest strap is very accurate.

[curryholic]

Thanks all for the posts.

I was thinking about my other watches/straps and wanted to ask. Is it that the fixed holes in the strap aren’t lined up to match people’s wrist circumferences so in order to get a decent contact it needs to be too tight?

When I was on the erg this morning with my polar verity sense, i was thinking that it has an elasticated strap and holds quite nicely and I assume measures the HR relatively accurately. I assume the tech in a watch is the same/similar to the verity therefore having a watch strap that can be snug would make it work appropriately - did a search and there are Velcro straps and ones like an Apple Watch.

Cheers,
D

[JaapvanE]

I was thinking about my other watches/straps and wanted to ask. Is it that the fixed holes in the strap aren’t lined up to match people’s wrist circumferences so in order to get a decent contact it needs to be too tight?

I use a nylon strap that tends to strech a bit, so it is a pretty good fit. For most sports this works extremely well: I walk a lot, I cycle and I ski with my Garmin without issue. Even swimming is doable. It is with rowing that the action becomes too wild to follow.

When I was on the erg this morning with my polar verity sense, i was thinking that it has an elasticated strap and holds quite nicely and I assume measures the HR relatively accurately. I assume the tech in a watch is the same/similar to the verity therefore having a watch strap that can be snug would make it work appropriately - did a search and there are Velcro straps and ones like an Apple Watch.

A watch has to be pretty snug to measure HR well as it needs to see the tiny movements of your blood flowing. A moving watch, even milimeters sideways, can block this measurement.

I see this with my Garmin. My chest straps measures the heart rate (electrically, not optically). My Garmin measures the breathing rate optical from the watch and during a rowing session it will display it next to the strokerate. I see quite some instances where the breathing rate is gone, but HR continues.

[Me, Myself and I]

I've been erg'ing for a bit now with a Polar Verity Sense arm based HRM that I wear at the elbow end of my forearm. I'm thinking of getting something new as I keep rubbing it on my knee and the strap gets worn funny.

This is my goto HRM. I wear mine on the upper right arm as high as I feel comfortable with. Has never hit my knee. Only do it up lightly. My thought is when I take the HRM off after exercise if it has left a mark on my arm then it's done up to tightly. Instructions say wear on non-dominant arm. I'm right handed but don't think it makes any difference erging. Something like javelin, different story.

Also have a H10. I find the readings are very similar. For anyone just erging for health/general fitness the tiny difference is irrelevant. Where it differs is with doing intervals. I always use the H10 when doing these. The H10 is quicker getting the information from the HRM to the app. The peaks of the heart rate and of the effort are on top of each other. Whereas with the Verity Sense the heart rate peak is past the effort peak.

As for a watch, they are the least accurate by a decent amount for me. I don't mind as I have never liked wearing a watch at any time.

[DavidA]

I was thinking about my other watches/straps and wanted to ask. Is it that the fixed holes in the strap aren’t lined up to match people’s wrist circumferences so in order to get a decent contact it needs to be too tight?

I use a nylon strap that tends to strech a bit, so it is a pretty good fit. For most sports this works extremely well: I walk a lot, I cycle and I ski with my Garmin without issue. Even swimming is doable. It is with rowing that the action becomes too wild to follow.

When I was on the erg this morning with my polar verity sense, i was thinking that it has an elasticated strap and holds quite nicely and I assume measures the HR relatively accurately. I assume the tech in a watch is the same/similar to the verity therefore having a watch strap that can be snug would make it work appropriately - did a search and there are Velcro straps and ones like an Apple Watch.

A watch has to be pretty snug to measure HR well as it needs to see the tiny movements of your blood flowing. A moving watch, even milimeters sideways, can block this measurement.

I see this with my Garmin. My chest straps measures the heart rate (electrically, not optically). My Garmin measures the breathing rate optical from the watch and during a rowing session it will display it next to the strokerate. I see quite some instances where the breathing rate is gone, but HR continues.

I have always had excellent readings from my Apple watch. The data I get from the watch and the chest strap are in line with each other. It might depend upon your build, etc., but I find the watch much easier to use, and just as accurate.

David

[curryholic]

So, I thought I’d bite the bullet anyway (usable for other activities too) and bought a Garmin Venu 2 Plus off Vinted (I’m now hooked! ) which arrived yesterday.

I know that it is a very limited data source, but I’ve just done a warm up/2k/cool down row with both the Garmin and my Polar Verity Sense on my arm to do a “scientific” comparator. The results… actually pretty damn close, certainly close enough for me!!! I've downloaded both HR traces out of Log Book and Garmin, bodged them together and the results are good (can't attached, please take my word for it!). I think the slight shift in data is probably more my manipulation/excel skills rather than anything else! To assuage worries, the watch also has an “indoor row” activity and there are concept2 (compatible) apps! In fact I used the activity to log the row - next will look at that data.

So, on the face of it... good choice and something to build in to the gear!

[rmacleod]

I am a fan of the Garmin products and their Connect app. I have the Garmin Vivoactive 3, which I bought primarily for use as my golf GPS. Could have bought a dedicated Golf GPS for less, but I liked the multi-sport function and the HR monitor, having previously used a Polar HR monitor for running.

Since you have already made the watch investment, get your wallet out and buy the chest strap. It provides infinitely superior HR data.

The best thing about heart rate training is it will tell you when you are over training: your heart rate becomes notably higher on the same workout and your resting HR starts drifting up. Take a day off and yo start making progress again.

There is solid evidence of heart rate training improving cardio vascular performance if you follow decent HR training program. Most of the data and articles are based on improving running performance. It is reasonable to infer that the same benefits translate over to erging as it is also primarily a cardio endurance sport.

[curryholic]

Thanks for looking/posting. One thing that I’m not is a slave to the data… I did a comparator of the PVS and garmin HRM data purely to check whether either was better - outcome they were the same. For me the garmin does what I need (ie. Send HR data to the PM5) and I can use ErgData to setup workouts, log sessions to C2, etc! I’m also going to be using the garmin to track hikes and stuff.

I’m not going to spunk a bit more dosh on a chest HRM as it doesn’t add anything, for me! Others maybe. I am the kind of person that needs to train/do phys when I have time, if the body ain’t quite right it’s hard and I suck it up! Sorry if that doesn’t fit with others view!

So, all in, I’m pleased with the watch and it does what I need it to do. Would I recommend it for others… hell yeah!

[Aquaman]

I comfortably use a Polar Verity on the left bicep (for HR broadcast), Apple Watch (for session tracking & HR back-up) on the left wrist, and Garmin Fenix 7 on the right wrist (for fun & SPM counting - the only thing it uniquely does). Have also used the Wahoo TICKR on the chest and will still on occasion. The readings all appear to match relatively closely, though the watches do not appear to update as often. I've not tested the Whoop, Fitbit or other non-watch wrist based devices but would assume they will land close as well.

What's next? Brain monitor for pain level readings? Are there any good breathing monitoring devices? I don't have anything around my neck yet...

[JaapvanE]

Garmin Fenix 7 on the right wrist (for fun & SPM counting - the only thing it uniquely does).

The Fenix 7 can be connected to the PM5, where the PM5 acts like a sensor for it. On the watch you can display stroke rate and breathing rate, and it will also record Distance per stroke, pace etc.

The breathing rate is the sole reason I wear my Epix during rowing, as it is a good indicator for leaving Zone 2.