Cross Team Challenge - Discussion Thread

[MNW]

Think you need to stick with the 250s. Changing it now after I’ve announced it in the Facebook group just looks silly.

Just needed clarification on overrating one or any of the reps, which you’ve given. I think they’ll be a lot of invalid efforts where people accidentally go to rate 21.

Lastly, you can’t police standing starts and nobody would read the small print for that anyway, so it just to be a choice or rolling or standing, as it normally is.

Understood re starts etc and I agree.

Thank you.

Ian

[Citroen]

I am at a total loss as to why our nomination for Jan 24 is so problematic.

So am I. It's your session, it's your choice, it's your rules (within the limits of the CTC).

[MNW]

I am at a total loss as to why our nomination for Jan 24 is so problematic.

So am I. It's your session, it's your choice, it's your rules (within the limits of the CTC).

Thank you - I am a little surprised at the responses but have to accept that it is a little quirky.

I hope that once people give it a go they will realise how important that first interval pacing is and see the point rather than thinking "silly". Too slow and you could have done better and too quick you might then be unable to keep the pace on all the other intervals.

Thanks.

Ian

[Dangerscouse]

My members haven't liked some of the previous choices but I was under the understanding that the variety is what makes this interesting and I have never seen such a discussion about a group's choice before. I understand we might need clarification at times but I feel this is going beyond that.

FWIW, I'm not looking forward to it, but I'll do it, and I totally respect your decision as a team in the spirit of the CTC. Your clarification has given a different perspective to the first interval, something that I didn't appreciate previously

[Elizabeth]

Re: Injury potential, while no one said "all out sprint", many teams will try to maximize their scores and get a leading boat. I expect that the pace on this will be maybe 10 splits faster for me than an all-out 30r20, and that I will need to be very aware of my back. Just as I was for the recent 200m.

Is the main concern about over-rating due to it being meters-based as opposed to time-based, or is it due to how short it is? Something like 6x0:45/1:00r or 6x1:00/1:00r would be fairly straightforward to execute at r20, just count one stroke every 3 seconds and stop when you hit 15 or 20 (respectively). But I have seen a fair number of trial attempts of this one where at least one rep is over on rate.

[MNW]

Re: Injury potential, while no one said "all out sprint", many teams will try to maximize their scores and get a leading boat. I expect that the pace on this will be maybe 10 splits faster for me than an all-out 30r20, and that I will need to be very aware of my back. Just as I was for the recent 200m.

Is the main concern about over-rating due to it being meters-based as opposed to time-based, or is it due to how short it is? Something like 6x0:45/1:00r or 6x1:00/1:00r would be fairly straightforward to execute at r20, just count one stroke every 3 seconds and stop when you hit 15 or 20 (respectively). But I have seen a fair number of trial attempts of this one where at least one rep is over on rate.

Hi there,

Thank you for replying.

I sincerely hope that people can row safely when doing any challenge and make sure their effort is appropriate for the challenge.

It has never been an issue before when doing a restricted to 20spm CTC so I am not quite sure why now is the time to raise it as if it is the devil's work.

I know our team is probably in the minority but we feel the fact that you need to really think about the pacing and stroke adds an additional element to it.

Our approach will be to do a deliberate and disciplined legal one even thought that might be at 19spm etc. Then we use the rest of the month to try and improve.

I stand by our choice this but I am not going to be choosing anymore if we are asked again as I have been very disappointed in the reaction from some of the community that went a little beyond "clarification". It will effectively block anything a little creative as people might be reluctant to try something quirky for fear of receiving some of the comments one here and, on FB. If the CTC community feel that restricted rowing stroke is not appropriate going forward then I hope the rules are changed accordingly.

I have been a member of the CTC for over 15 years (maybe even 20) when I used to teach Crewing Classes at David Lloyd Gyms as DLCBromsgrove and then Mercian Fitness when I set up my own business. I am an indoor rowing coach initially qualified with British Rowing and then as a Concept2 approved coach and so being called "not very clued up" on Facebook is a little galling but I will survive ha ha.

Anyway, it is Christmas Eve and I wish all of the CTCers a happy Christmas. The CTC has given my various indoor rowing teams something to think about and train for over the years and for that I thank you all for your competition and challenges over the years.

Happy Christmas and New Year.

Ian

[Citroen]

I have been a member of the CTC for over 15 years (maybe even 20) ...

The CTC started in December 2005 so it's exactly eighteen years old this month.

[MNW]

My members haven't liked some of the previous choices but I was under the understanding that the variety is what makes this interesting and I have never seen such a discussion about a group's choice before. I understand we might need clarification at times but I feel this is going beyond that.

FWIW, I'm not looking forward to it, but I'll do it, and I totally respect your decision as a team in the spirit of the CTC. Your clarification has given a different perspective to the first interval, something that I didn't appreciate previously

Thanks for replying and |I accept that my initial explanation wasn't good enough and I hope I have rectified that.

I hope you will come to enjoy the challenge of getting that first interval right.

Merry Christmas.

ian

[MNW]

I have been a member of the CTC for over 15 years (maybe even 20) ...

The CTC started in December 2005 so it's exactly eighteen years old this month.

and a great thing it is.

Thanks for clarification.

Ian

[Sakly]

I sincerely hope that people can row safely when doing any challenge and make sure their effort is appropriate for the challenge.

It has never been an issue before when doing a restricted to 20spm CTC so I am not quite sure why now is the time to raise it as if it is the devil's work.

I know our team is probably in the minority but we feel the fact that you need to really think about the pacing and stroke adds an additional element to it.

Our approach will be to do a deliberate and disciplined legal one even thought that might be at 19spm etc. Then we use the rest of the month to try and improve.

Hi,
I think I am one of the minority group accepting this challenge immediately
I think low rate training is a very nice thing, but also think it is more suited to longer distances, not so much for sprinting distances. Anyway, I tried a single 250 yesterday during gym warmup to see how it feels and goes. No problem so far, but realized that spm for the splits varied greatly, even pulling every ~3s, due to slightly off-timing between pulls.

Only to get the spm part right:
If only one of the 6 intervals is calculated with 21spm by PM5 the whole thing is failed? (e.g. if the second interval shows spm 21, I could already stop?)
Or if the complete average of all 6 intervals is calculated with spm 21 by PM5 the whole thing is failed?

This part is not clear for me,

The whole piece has to be done at Max 20SPM (If one interval is out then the piece is invalid but as per the rules it is the average SPM in each interval that counts).

as there is no average in a single interval.

[MNW]

This part is not clear for me,

The whole piece has to be done at Max 20SPM (If one interval is out then the piece is invalid but as per the rules it is the average SPM in each interval that counts).

as there is no average in a single interval.
[/quote]

Good point re ave on one interval.

Yes, I think all of the intervals need to be "legal" for the piece to count.

I guess that means that you could stop on second interval and start again to make legal.

Ian

[Elizabeth]

Re: Injury potential, while no one said "all out sprint", many teams will try to maximize their scores and get a leading boat. I expect that the pace on this will be maybe 10 splits faster for me than an all-out 30r20, and that I will need to be very aware of my back. Just as I was for the recent 200m.

Is the main concern about over-rating due to it being meters-based as opposed to time-based, or is it due to how short it is? Something like 6x0:45/1:00r or 6x1:00/1:00r would be fairly straightforward to execute at r20, just count one stroke every 3 seconds and stop when you hit 15 or 20 (respectively). But I have seen a fair number of trial attempts of this one where at least one rep is over on rate.

Hi there,

Thank you for replying.

I sincerely hope that people can row safely when doing any challenge and make sure their effort is appropriate for the challenge.

It has never been an issue before when doing a restricted to 20spm CTC so I am not quite sure why now is the time to raise it as if it is the devil's work.

I know our team is probably in the minority but we feel the fact that you need to really think about the pacing and stroke adds an additional element to it.

Our approach will be to do a deliberate and disciplined legal one even thought that might be at 19spm etc. Then we use the rest of the month to try and improve.

I stand by our choice this but I am not going to be choosing anymore if we are asked again as I have been very disappointed in the reaction from some of the community that went a little beyond "clarification". It will effectively block anything a little creative as people might be reluctant to try something quirky for fear of receiving some of the comments one here and, on FB. If the CTC community feel that restricted rowing stroke is not appropriate going forward then I hope the rules are changed accordingly.

I have been a member of the CTC for over 15 years (maybe even 20) when I used to teach Crewing Classes at David Lloyd Gyms as DLCBromsgrove and then Mercian Fitness when I set up my own business. I am an indoor rowing coach initially qualified with British Rowing and then as a Concept2 approved coach and so being called "not very clued up" on Facebook is a little galling but I will survive ha ha.

Anyway, it is Christmas Eve and I wish all of the CTCers a happy Christmas. The CTC has given my various indoor rowing teams something to think about and train for over the years and for that I thank you all for your competition and challenges over the years.

Happy Christmas and New Year.

Ian

Ian, I am sorry, I didn't mean to be piling on. Most of my training is at r20 but also at an easy intensity. I did a couple max 1:00r20 over the summer, and from experience know that I can do it but sometimes need to modify training around it to protect my back. In particular, it doesn't mix well with deadlifts for me. But despite all that, I am also more interested in tackling this one than I am the current month's, which I still haven't done. I was really pushing for something rate-restricted the last time my team chose, but was over-ruled.

Anyway, Merry Christmas!

[MNW]

Re: Injury potential, while no one said "all out sprint", many teams will try to maximize their scores and get a leading boat. I expect that the pace on this will be maybe 10 splits faster for me than an all-out 30r20, and that I will need to be very aware of my back. Just as I was for the recent 200m.

Is the main concern about over-rating due to it being meters-based as opposed to time-based, or is it due to how short it is? Something like 6x0:45/1:00r or 6x1:00/1:00r would be fairly straightforward to execute at r20, just count one stroke every 3 seconds and stop when you hit 15 or 20 (respectively). But I have seen a fair number of trial attempts of this one where at least one rep is over on rate.

Hi there,

Thank you for replying.

I sincerely hope that people can row safely when doing any challenge and make sure their effort is appropriate for the challenge.

It has never been an issue before when doing a restricted to 20spm CTC so I am not quite sure why now is the time to raise it as if it is the devil's work.

I know our team is probably in the minority but we feel the fact that you need to really think about the pacing and stroke adds an additional element to it.

Our approach will be to do a deliberate and disciplined legal one even thought that might be at 19spm etc. Then we use the rest of the month to try and improve.

I stand by our choice this but I am not going to be choosing anymore if we are asked again as I have been very disappointed in the reaction from some of the community that went a little beyond "clarification". It will effectively block anything a little creative as people might be reluctant to try something quirky for fear of receiving some of the comments one here and, on FB. If the CTC community feel that restricted rowing stroke is not appropriate going forward then I hope the rules are changed accordingly.

I have been a member of the CTC for over 15 years (maybe even 20) when I used to teach Crewing Classes at David Lloyd Gyms as DLCBromsgrove and then Mercian Fitness when I set up my own business. I am an indoor rowing coach initially qualified with British Rowing and then as a Concept2 approved coach and so being called "not very clued up" on Facebook is a little galling but I will survive ha ha.

Anyway, it is Christmas Eve and I wish all of the CTCers a happy Christmas. The CTC has given my various indoor rowing teams something to think about and train for over the years and for that I thank you all for your competition and challenges over the years.

Happy Christmas and New Year.

Ian

Ian, I am sorry, I didn't mean to be piling on. Most of my training is at r20 but also at an easy intensity. I did a couple max 1:00r20 over the summer, and from experience know that I can do it but sometimes need to modify training around it to protect my back. In particular, it doesn't mix well with deadlifts for me. But despite all that, I am also more interested in tackling this one than I am the current month's, which I still haven't done. I was really pushing for something rate-restricted the last time my team chose, but was over-ruled.

Anyway, Merry Christmas!

Thank you for replying and you aren't piling it on you have asked legitimate questions.

Yes I do understand that the back needs to be protected but in all pieces not just this one - if this challenge gets people to think about rowing technique then I hope that is a good thing.

Once you do the session the pacing part of it will become obvious.

If you check the C2 workouts there are some great 20SPM drills that help people to learn how to drive the legs properly to develop power and not just use fast rowing to get good scores.

The more you do this the more efficient the legs are and then when you do an unrestricted row you will really feel the extra power that the slow spm drills have given you. A lot of my personal training is restricted rowing stroke work so I develop the power. Obviously it is slower paced than 32 SPM etc but that is fine by me. In the long run it helps me.

Of course, the catch needs to be good and stability too to ensure you can "take" the stroke but if that bit isn't there when you are going quicker then your back would be compromised there too.

Arguably, if you drive the legs hard at 32SPM without bracing and without a great catch etc you are more likely to hurt the back.

I will be approaching this as a drill type challenge with my team. We will aim to put a legal one into the system in our first attempt which we will know we can get better as we progress through the month.

Deadlifts are a killer if the technique is off but a great exercise. I do a lot of kettlebell work too to enhance by rowing as well and suspension training with squats and rowing etc. I also do a lot of core work and strength work off the rower.

Thank you so much for understanding what my team's suggestion is trying to achieve.

Merry Christmas.

Ian

[Sakly]

This part is not clear for me,

The whole piece has to be done at Max 20SPM (If one interval is out then the piece is invalid but as per the rules it is the average SPM in each interval that counts).

as there is no average in a single interval.

Good point re ave on one interval.

Yes, I think all of the intervals need to be "legal" for the piece to count.

I guess that means that you could stop on second interval and start again to make legal.

Ian

Thanks for clarification! So it's not the overall average, it is every single interval, that needs to match max 20spm!
Now all clear for me and looking forward to the first try

Merry Christmas

[Dangerscouse]

Anyway, it is Christmas Eve and I wish all of the CTCers a happy Christmas. The CTC has given my various indoor rowing teams something to think about and train for over the years and for that I thank you all for your competition and challenges over the years.

Happy Christmas and New Year.

Ian

Merry Christmas to you too