Rowpro or EXR?

[Xrayvizhen]

Hello - old, new rower here (or am I a new, old rower?) who just bought a lightly used 2-year-old Model D on Ebay. I"m 74 and never rowed before either on or off the water but I've been looking for a way to hopefully strengthen my core muscles and make my cardiologist happy at the same time and so I'm thinking rowing could do the trick. Additionally, my primary sport is golf. I'm a competitive scratch golfer and have noticed my clubhead speed declining in recent years so I'm thinking rowing might help with that as well.

So, enough of the introduction and now to my main question. Today I downloaded the trial PC version of Rowpro 5.8. I used an HDMI cable to connect my laptop to an old 27" flat screen TV that was in my basement gathering dust and a USB printer cable connection to the PM5 and my initial reaction is, other than I have to bring my computer downstairs and plug it in, Rowpro is pretty much exactly what I want. I wanted a program/app that would allow me to race against virtual opponents, one of which could be me in a prior race. Maybe at some point I'll be fast enough to go against real people in my age group but I'm not there yet. I've read about EXR and if I'm not mistaken it seems like most people on this forum prefer it over Rowpro. So, I'm wondering why? I guess I'll download the trial version of that as well and compare the two but from a cost standpoint, Rowpro seems better, especially with the option to just buy it outright.

Thoughts and opinions by those who have used both would be appreciated.

[Carl Watts]

I used RowPro for over 12 years but I liked to row with other real people but the numbers have really dropped off on it now as I suspect many people have moved to EXR now.

I really depends on what features you use, pretty much I used the online rowing only and it just doesn't have the numbers anymore to motivate me.

EXR has picked up the pace but its still way behind the likes of Zwift that I now use on the bike.

There is a real time loop now in ErgData you can connect to the PM5 and its free, it may be all you need.

[JaapvanE]

I wanted a program/app that would allow me to race against virtual opponents, one of which could be me in a prior race. Maybe at some point I'll be fast enough to go against real people in my age group but I'm not there yet. I've read about EXR and if I'm not mistaken it seems like most people on this forum prefer it over Rowpro. So, I'm wondering why? I guess I'll download the trial version of that as well and compare the two but from a cost standpoint, Rowpro seems better, especially with the option to just buy it outright.

I've tested both and I have decided to use EXR.

To me, the setup of RowPro felt too competition oriented. I do a lot of long distance steady state stuff and just want to row along friends, which this does not seem to suit. And in all honesty, as far as I can tell, it hasn't received a significant update in years, and it shows. In terms of graphics it severely lacked quality: it feels like a '90 computer game, not something that normal current games routinely produce. And the user interface itself feels outdated as well. And after a while I felt there was too much repetition in the scenery. And added to that, you must run it on a PC, which is a hassle to set up.

EXR is much more modern and has pretty good graphics quality, their 3D world is quite good. They run on almost anything that has a decent CPU and Os. They update monthly, introducing new features and new routes. Their roadmap is published here: https://exrgame.com/blog/exr-roadmap

EXR currently has four different locations, all with several different courses which interact with each other. Bled is a good reproduction of Lake Bled, where often world cup races are held. Here the largest course is 5K, so you'll see the same scenery after 5K as you made your round around the lake. Henley is based on the renowned racing course, including the city of Henley itself (according to some local rowers a pretty accurate depiction), with some more playful additions like a tunnel and a grand-canyon like area with a waterfall. Here the largest loop is over 10K. The Boston Charles river is the course used for the Boston Head of the Charles Regatta. Again a very accurate depiction of the Boston area, with some playful addition of sewers to provide shortcuts and steamboats. Here there are two huge loops of both nearly 20K. Benefit for me is that I can seriously change scenery, as I want variation in my scenery.

EXR has a racing option that provide races on the actual race courses. Here people can organise their own races, or you can just race against others (or at least a recording of their old performance when doing this at odd hours). As people typically are grouped by their previous achievements in races, you always end up in a fair race.

What I really like are the group rows where all paces are welcome. Currently, there are about 4 to 6 organised every week, and once per month there is one with British Rowing. Outside these events, I just row on a specific course and encounter people doing their thing. What I like is that I can join friends in their session, so I can just drop in wherever they are at that moment. Happens to me quite often, which is fun. My kids like the minigames: my son loves Bouy Blast (interval training), and my daughter is a shark attack girl (being chased by a shark that keeps you near your maximum pace).

The community around EXR is pretty good. The Facebook and Discord groups are quite active, and people easily find other people which share their pace and find group rows. So why not try it?

[jamesg]

I've been looking for a way to hopefully strengthen my core muscles and make my cardiologist happy at the same time and so I'm thinking rowing could do the trick

It can, since it's a Power sport. You can see the stroke data as to Watts and Rating on the PM, and more single-stroke data such as force, speed, rating, pull time etc in ergdata.

I use the C2 WODs, which can be done as fast or as slow as we like. The effects come soon if you keep the rating low and the stroke robust by using a rowing style that engages the legs.

[Tsnor]

Since you have the 27" screen and a laptop...

Put the laptop where you can use the laptop camera to get a side view of your rowing. The 27" screen is already where you can see it rowing. Zoom will echo the camera to the screen if you don't have anything else. Now you can see your rowing real time.

Rowing is a safe exercise if your form is reasonable. Bad form can lead to lower back problems. At 70 and well trained for some sports you have strong enough muscles to hurt yourself.

Use some youtube "how to row" videos to get basic form. Concept2 Australia is great, so is dark horse rowing. Compare what you see there to your rowing stroke seen from the side. Focus on leg, hip, arm sequencing first at low pressure and then tightly focus on your hip movement. Make sure you have a strong back that does not bend forward and back - your swing is from the hips.

You should see an excellent improvement in core strength. GL and stay safe.

[gvcormac]

I believe that RowPro won't work with the latest PM5 software update.

I used to use RowPro a lot, but I don't so much any more. I don't use anything else, either. I don't care much about having an immersive experience.

Once upon a time, I tried to organize zoom+RowPro regatta, but I guess I didn't try hard enough. I'd much rather watch people than avatars.

[Xrayvizhen]

I believe that RowPro won't work with the latest PM5 software update.

Huh? I have Firmware Ver. 207 which, according to Concept 2, is from October of this year. Are you saying if I update it, Rowpro won't work?? And is there a good reason why I should update at all? My general philosophy with all things computers is, if the wheel ain't broke, don't fix it.

[JaapvanE]

I believe that RowPro won't work with the latest PM5 software update.

Huh? I have Firmware Ver. 207 which, according to Concept 2, is from October of this year. Are you saying if I update it, Rowpro won't work?? And is there a good reason why I should update at all? My general philosophy with all things computers is, if the wheel ain't broke, don't fix it.

They fixed issues related to the HR data from bluetooth devices.

And when it comes to IT related stuff, always update.

[gvcormac]

I believe that RowPro won't work with the latest PM5 software update.

Huh? I have Firmware Ver. 207 which, according to Concept 2, is from October of this year. Are you saying if I update it, Rowpro won't work?? And is there a good reason why I should update at all? My general philosophy with all things computers is, if the wheel ain't broke, don't fix it.

They fixed issues related to the HR data from bluetooth devices.

And when it comes to IT related stuff, always update.

If you want RowPro to work, don't update.

[JaapvanE]

If you want RowPro to work, don't update.

It fixes a pretty nasty bug where a HR belt could crash the PM5 (I reported it...).

I must say, EXR has absolutely no issues there. Admittingly, they only listen to the C2 data and do little in setting it up, but I haven't seen many issues reported with a PM5 (or older cable based PM's). Even the FTMS interface, which is used by a lot of other manufacturers like the WaterRower and is a lot more wild-west, is flawless. Even OpenRowingMonitor works perfect in both modes (we can emulate a PM5 aside presenting a FTMS end-point).

[nick rockliff]

Huh? I have Firmware Ver. 207 which, according to Concept 2, is from October of this year. Are you saying if I update it, Rowpro won't work?? And is there a good reason why I should update at all? My general philosophy with all things computers is, if the wheel ain't broke, don't fix it.

They fixed issues related to the HR data from bluetooth devices.

And when it comes to IT related stuff, always update.

If you want RowPro to work, don't update.

I have an older PM5 with latest update (last week) and it works fine with Rowpro even when using Ergdata at the same time.

[JaapvanE]

EXR and World Rowing just announced a partnership: https://worldrowing.com/2023/12/15/worl ... xperiences

Looks like a run-up to WRIC 2024

[gvcormac]

They fixed issues related to the HR data from bluetooth devices.

And when it comes to IT related stuff, always update.

If you want RowPro to work, don't update.

I have an older PM5 with latest update (last week) and it works fine with Rowpro even when using Ergdata at the same time.

Yes, there are lots of PM5 versions. I was skeptical when I read about this a couple of weeks ago, but sure enough, RowPro doesn't talk (properly) to PM5. I think you can "just row" and it eventually sorts itself out, but you can't program a row.

[Carl Watts]

Four hardware versions of the PM5, each has its own Firmware version there are bound to be issues with RowPro.

Best just to stay on an old firmware version if its working 100% for you, updating can just lead to problems.

If you are also using ErgData the issue with that is it prompts you for firmware updates and as both are C2 products you tend to want to stay up to date.

It used to be very difficult to use ErgData AND RowPro at the same time, some bugs just never got sorted.

[JaapvanE]

It used to be very difficult to use ErgData AND RowPro at the same time, some bugs just never got sorted.

Why do that? EXR simply will send the workout to the C2 logbook for you. Doesn't RowPro do the same?