DF all over the shop?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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robhely
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DF all over the shop?

Post by robhely » October 23rd, 2023, 11:14 pm

I've noticed lately that my DF is not remaining consistent. If I set it to my preferred DF of 125, it will change by itself to a higher or lower value in a day or so. I set it recently at 125 and noticed on a row I logged using the Ergdata a couple of days later that the DF was 129.

I realise that as dust accumulates in the fan on an erg this will lower the DF over time, but I'm not sure why it would increase the DF for no apparent reason.

Is this normal, or there something wrong with my erg? For me to get a DF or 125, my lever is always set to 4.5, which hasn't changed until these recent anomalies.

Funnily enough, I quite liked the feel of 129, which I would have thought was a bit high for a LWT rower. Not sure I'd want to do a long row at that though.
M/53/179cm/74.8kg
started rowing late 2022

PBs
1k: 3:26.2
2k: 7:09.9
5k: 18:46.0
30min: 7,847m
10k: 38:57.0
60min: 15,060m
HM: 1:26:14.1

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Ombrax
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Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by Ombrax » October 23rd, 2023, 11:29 pm

Temperature and atmospheric pressure also affect air density.

Just re-set the DF to whatever you want before every session. Or you can ignore the small variations due to changes in local conditions.

(I do the former, it just takes a few seconds.)

Dangerscouse
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Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by Dangerscouse » October 24th, 2023, 12:43 am

My df has been varying quite a bit recently, and I've seen 119 and 123 without touching it.
50 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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robhely
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Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by robhely » October 24th, 2023, 1:04 am

Ombrax wrote:
October 23rd, 2023, 11:29 pm
Temperature and atmospheric pressure also affect air density.

Just re-set the DF to whatever you want before every session. Or you can ignore the small variations due to changes in local conditions.

(I do the former, it just takes a few seconds.)
Spring in Melbourne Australia is the most variable season we have, so that would explain it.

Good idea, it's super easy to check it before each session if an exact value is required. I don't use the Ergdata app regularly, so it's probably been changing all the time for months, I just haven't noticed it.
M/53/179cm/74.8kg
started rowing late 2022

PBs
1k: 3:26.2
2k: 7:09.9
5k: 18:46.0
30min: 7,847m
10k: 38:57.0
60min: 15,060m
HM: 1:26:14.1

JaapvanE
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Joined: January 4th, 2022, 2:49 am

Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by JaapvanE » October 24th, 2023, 1:38 am

Dangerscouse wrote:
October 24th, 2023, 12:43 am
My df has been varying quite a bit recently, and I've seen 119 and 123 without touching it.
Yeah, autumn/spring with strong variations in weather and athmospheric pressure tends to do that. My DF varied between 124 and 127 last week.

I simultanuously use a PM5 and OpenRowingMonitor, both exhibit the same behaviour. As I made and understand (and can even check) the drag calculation from ORM, it is the physical conditions that changed, not a monitor error.

p_b82
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Location: South Somerset, UK

Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by p_b82 » October 24th, 2023, 4:34 am

Mine fluctuates by that sort of amount a lot - it did drop by 10 so got the hoover out for the cage and it went right back to normal range again.

opening the windows next to my erg also makes a difference too
M 6'4 born:'82
PB's
'23: 6k=25:23.5, HM=1:36:08.0, 60'=13,702m
'24: 500m=1:37.7, 2k=7:44.80, 5k=20:42.9, 10k=42:13.1, FM=3:18:35.4, 30'=7,132m
Logbook

robhely
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Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by robhely » October 24th, 2023, 6:20 am

p_b82 wrote:
October 24th, 2023, 4:34 am
Mine fluctuates by that sort of amount a lot - it did drop by 10 so got the hoover out for the cage and it went right back to normal range again.

opening the windows next to my erg also makes a difference too
Actually, I have been opening the garage door sometimes, which is probably creating a lot more air flow.

Silly question, but can you hoover the cage without taking it apart?
M/53/179cm/74.8kg
started rowing late 2022

PBs
1k: 3:26.2
2k: 7:09.9
5k: 18:46.0
30min: 7,847m
10k: 38:57.0
60min: 15,060m
HM: 1:26:14.1

p_b82
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Posts: 542
Joined: August 8th, 2022, 1:24 pm
Location: South Somerset, UK

Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by p_b82 » October 24th, 2023, 8:13 am

robhely wrote:
October 24th, 2023, 6:20 am
Actually, I have been opening the garage door sometimes, which is probably creating a lot more air flow.

Silly question, but can you hoover the cage without taking it apart?
I use one of the soft furnishing attachments with the brush, and just do the outside - it seems to be working so far, but if/when that stops being as effective then I'll take the cage off - but not needed to so far.
M 6'4 born:'82
PB's
'23: 6k=25:23.5, HM=1:36:08.0, 60'=13,702m
'24: 500m=1:37.7, 2k=7:44.80, 5k=20:42.9, 10k=42:13.1, FM=3:18:35.4, 30'=7,132m
Logbook

DaveD33
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Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by DaveD33 » October 24th, 2023, 11:20 am

Mine has been fluctuating quite a bit as well, too, 5-10 points per day, with one day spiking up to 165, and another day ErgData recording no value whatsoever.
40M/5'10"/207lbs

fancyoats
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Location: New England

Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by fancyoats » October 24th, 2023, 8:18 pm

I noticed my drag factor changed (up from 110 to 120ish) when I got the giant fan to point at me during workouts.
44F, 5'8", 150lb
practice makes progress

robhely
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Posts: 180
Joined: March 28th, 2023, 5:40 pm

Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by robhely » October 25th, 2023, 6:19 pm

These changes are quite significant, I would never intentionally set my DF 10 units higher or lower than my preferred setting.

I guess this is just a reminder to set the DF before every session, as mentioned above.
M/53/179cm/74.8kg
started rowing late 2022

PBs
1k: 3:26.2
2k: 7:09.9
5k: 18:46.0
30min: 7,847m
10k: 38:57.0
60min: 15,060m
HM: 1:26:14.1

iain
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Posts: 1092
Joined: October 11th, 2007, 6:56 am
Location: Reading, UK

Re: DF all over the shop?

Post by iain » October 26th, 2023, 11:27 am

I think temperature is the usual reason for the variation.

Personally I always check the DF before rowing as I use a C-Breeze and if this slips it makes a huge difference.
56, lightweight in pace and by gravity. Currently training 3-4 times a week after a break to slowly regain the pitiful fitness I achieved a few years ago. Free Spirit, come join us http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum/

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