Cold Water

[[old] Hal Morgan]

<br />Maybe Xeno or someone will make a video demonstartion of how to get in when flipped, and post it.<br /><br /><br />I could not agree more. <br /><br />Post script:<br />My Aylings has the three bars (sic) on the outrigger they are in the way! I can't get in, I bruise my legs up terrible. This the reason I can't get in.

[[old] bw1099]

<!--QuoteBegin-ljwagner+Nov 20 2005, 11:53 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ljwagner @ Nov 20 2005, 11:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next Spring, learn how to get in your flipped single !!<br /><br />I've rowed alone in winter.  Not the smartest thing to do.  It wasn't my time to die.<br /><br />I flipped a single in late December 1970, and again in March about 1986.  Heat generated from rowing made me not notice the water temp.  But my body fat was about 12% and at 145 lbs, I could not stay in the water long. In December, I was the only one on the water, but people were at the boathouse a mile away. They could not see me.<br /><br /> I was able to get back in quickly both times, and despite being chilled, I rowed hard to warm up immediately.  Many thanks to the guys on my crew who figured this out and talked about it at breakfast years ago.  Also to the guys who could not get in for motivating me with how scared they were when they flipped in winter, even in California.<br /><br />The March flip, my mother and father were about 40 feet away in an Alden double.  My mom wanted me to get a towel and dry off.  I declined.  Getting moving, and warm took a few minutes.<br /><br />How we did it:<br /><br />Get the boat right side up.  Somehow.<br />Pull the scull handles up to the bow end, one at a time if need be.<br />  - you may need to swim around to do this.  Oh, well.<br />Cross the handles, or put them end to end on the decking<br />  - This means the blades are up in the air.<br />  - You can't let the sculls float away.<br />  - The boat may flip again, or you'll flip reaching for them.<br />Hold the handles with one hand so you don't lose them. Keep holding on to them.<br />Straddle the scull at the bow end, and sit up, holding the sculls.<br />  - Now your torso is out of the water.  <br />  - Relax a little. Breathe<br />Scoot toward the seat, keeping a hold on the sculls.<br />  - Reach in front, grip the boat, and try to bounce your butt forward toward the slide.<br />When you can put the sculls in your lap do so, so they are locked by your legs, arms, and body.<br />  - You'll need both hands to lift yourself over a splash board if you have one.<br />Lift yourself over the spashboard, and again onto the seat.<br />Sculls out, get moving and get warm.<br /><br />Maybe Xeno or someone will make a video demonstartion of how to get in when flipped, and post it. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />When I learned to row, they took us all out to a small lake and taught us how to get back in after we flipped. That was before they ever let us go out on the river. They said that they never had anyong who couldn't do it. It was basically the procedure described here by ljwagner.<br /><br />bw<br />

[[old] kjgress]

We had an incident very early this season where someone was out by themselves, hit a buoy and flipped, WAS WEARING A PFD of the inflatable waist type and because of very cold water quickly became disoriented and almost drowned very near the shore. They swam the boat to shore instead of getting back in. They also inflated the PFD but didn't put it on. This was not an inexperienced rower either. They mentioned that they were hallucinating near the end and admitted that if they had been further than about 50 m out they wouldn't have made it. The distance was not very far to swim but the air temp was around 34 degrees. Don't know the water temp but it was probably in the high 40's or low 50's.

[[old] PaulS]

From Rec.Sport.Rowing<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear all,<br />on German Sea Kayakers' Forum I found a short report, which I try to<br />translate:<br /><br />Cold water experiment on myself 111 m at 5°C<br /><br />Written by Rene, date Dec. 6, 2005<br /><br />.....then I will be swimming the 100 or 200m to the bank....if I should<br />fall in.<br />Such statements can be heard frequently....<br /><br />I wanted to know, how it is to swim 111m in cold water of 5°C.<br /><br />0m Jumping in....don't really feel it....astonishingly bearable<br />5m Mercilessly cold shits what am I doing here<br />20m Fucking cold and already breathless....I have to relax<br />35m Where are the nearest rescue boats (my first severe crisis)<br />55m Half of it....crisis - legs sinking deeper and deeper - head<br />not into the water - simply too cold, I cannot manage it....<br />75m Still endless far and cramps in my legs - more and more upright<br />in the water.....(I have to manage it.....doubts.....)<br />90m I can manage it - swimming movements already slowed down<br />100m When will it stop - it is bitterly bitterly cold and all in<br />slow-motion<br />111m Having cramps im my legs I leave the water<br /><br />The whole was lasting for 2 or 2:15 minutes (otherwise I can swim 100m<br />within 1:20)<br /><br />I would not have stood further 100m, not to mention with tracksuit (as<br />frequently seen with rowers) it would have lasted for one minute<br />longer.<br /><br />Result: A good experience, but expensive as with cold water I'll go<br />paddling with a drysuit only....<br /><br />End of qoutation.<br />Very valuable for us, IMHO.<br /><br />Eberhard <br /><br />It was done during an event of Zurich Swimming Club, well organized,<br />divers and rescue boats were available </td></tr></table>

[[old] Arno]

Those of you who would like to test your ability of swimming in cold water please welcome to the annual Winter Swimming World Championships in Finland, Oulu next March. <br /><a href='http://www.ouka.fi/iceswim2006/english/' target='_blank'>http://www.ouka.fi/iceswim2006/english/</a><br /><br />Arno<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Arno,<br /><br />Do you know the temperature of the water?<br /><br />All the races are 25 meters.<br /><br />COMPETITION RULES<br /><br />"Breaststroke is the only allowed technique. The crown of the head must be above the surface of the water at all times. If the crown goes under water, the performance will be disqualified.<br /><br />"The start of the swimming performance takes place from the stairs, with shoulders under the surface of the water. In the start position competitors must hold the handle attached to the rail. All participants are expected to go to the water with no delay.<br /><br />"Swimmers are not allowed to use any internal or external substances that preserve body heat. Finnish antidoping regulations are applicable. It is forbidden to swim under the influence of alcohol.<br /><br />"Swimsuits must be morally and professionally appropriate, and they must be non-transparent. It is forbidden to use any devices to improve the performance. It is also forbidden to wear any extra clothing, such as gloves or footwear. However, headwear and goggles are allowed. Competition Director has the right to disqualify any competitor whose swimsuit is not in accordance with the rules."

[[old] Arno]

John,<br /><br />Nice rules! Better to follow them. Putting the head under the water is really dangerous. Concerning the water temperature there are really not many alternatives. If we have a frozen lake the temperature is always around +4 C. If this event is not extreme enough I can recommend the world's hottest summer event: Sauna World Championships in August <a href='http://update.econnection.fi/heinola/ne ... =1&nav=475' target='_blank'>http://update.econnection.fi/heinola/ne ... 475</a><br />Here the rules are simply enough: The heat is gradually increased and the person who is the last one to stay inside the sauna is world champion. Different categories for women and men

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi everybody interested in this topic. Here is a chilling article:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.leoblockley.org.uk/documents ... rvival.doc' target='_blank'>http://www.leoblockley.org.uk/documents ... doc</a><br /><br />I'm very interested in this because right now the river is frozen, and people tell me how dangerous it can be in early spring on a nice warm day but when the river is still cold.<br /><br />Byron

[[old] ljwagner]

S&*^, yes cold water rowing is dangerous. If you're a very competent sculler, the chances are pretty small you'll never flip. But not Zero.<br /><br />Years ago, I went to gym with a guy after work, and we lifted some heavy weights for 30-40 minutes. We cooled down a bit, and my friend thought a dip in their cold pool, about 20 feet across, before a shower was a good idea. He dove in a came out, and went on to the shower. Big guy, about 220 lbs.<br /><br />I dove in, strongly, thank God. I coasted across, barely able to move, and came up at the far end. I was barely able to move from the cold. It was like I was turned to hard putty. I struggled to get up the ladder. I managed to get to the shower, and 20 minutes of hot shower did not thaw me much. I felt strange all evening and for a good 24 hours. I weighed 145 at the time. I will never, ever, do an icy plunge again. It might be nice for polarbear types, but that was way scarier than flipping in winter or anything else I've ever done. <br /><br />When I flipped, I was in the midst of a hard piece. Fortunate, in that I was very warm at the time. If you are warmed up, you'll last longer in the water since you're limbs are hot and muscles are prepped for exercise, if you just flipped. My wife and I tried using our Jacuzzi at 105 degrees or so one November, when the pool was about 40 degrees. Got good and hot, then swam. It was tingly, but we managed to swim a few laps, heads out of the water, then thought it wise to get out. We did not put our heads under.<br /><br />Another 2nd hand story from a friend. Her friend's husband's accidentally backed off of a dock, trying to take a picture, and fell backwards in an alpine lake. Died of shock. The description she gave was that the sudden cold paralyzed him and he drowned. <br /><br />Know how to get back in the boat ! And probably do a good thorough warmup, so you have half a chance if you fall in before you can warmup on the water.<br /><br />Better, put your erg on curved staves and work on balance indoors. <br /><br />For reaction to a crab while sculling, sense a quick rise in a hand. If a hand is going up a lot, either bring them both down and together, stop pulling, finish early, shove the hgh one down, or push away. Do something to stop pulling yourself over. Otherwise, you'll be going in. In summer or fall, a refreshing dunk. Winter or spring, depending on where you are, its another story. Hopefully not an obit.<br /><br />

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi LJ,<br /><br />Your story is consistent with that quoted source: The ability to swim and stay afloat in cold water bears little or no relationship to your ability to swim in warm water. According to one study, the upperarm skinfold thickness is a significant factor for survival in cold water. At 145 lbs, you probably didn't have much skinfold thickness on the upperarm. According to that source and others, I agree it's good to practice capsize drills in warm water, but you might have only once chance, if that, to get back into the boat in cold water. <br /><br />I like the suggestion of putting the erg on curved staves. So far I've been practicing feathering with my special handles, and have done some experimenting with attaching a long stick to the handle and having the ends go "around the tabletop" and therefore practicing balancing the boat by using hand heights. The curved staves would help practice keeping the body from listing to one side. <br /><br />Byron<br />

[[old] ljwagner]

PowerPoint file I found on the web.<br /><br />http//:www.shipwrite.bc.ca/files/Cold Water.pps <br /><br />also: <a href='http://http://www.enter.net/~skimmer/coldwater.html' target='_blank'>OFF-SEASON BOATING, COLD SHOCK and HYPOTHERMIA </a><br /><br />or search on the three words: water cold shock, no quotes or commas. Seem to be a few PDFs, and PPS files around.<br /><br />In a nutshell, sudden immersion usually causes hyperventilation, and blood movement to the core, and away from the limbs. So falling in 1) keep your head up to prevent gasping for breath under water. Coordination is poor, so putting on a flotation device is apparently almost impossible.<br /><br />If one is working hard sculling as I was the two times I flipped in winter, you have a much better chance of being able to move since your muscles were already hot and prepped for exercise. Also the water I was in was only in the 40's or so. The PowerPoint file indicates the reactions can happen in water in the 60's. but are more severe and rapid in colder water. Better to do anything you can to stay up.<br /><br />From the 2nd link:<br /><br />What happens in cold water? <br /><br />Cold water removes heat from the body 25 times faster than cold air. About 50% of that heat loss occurs through the head. Physical activity such as swimming, or other struggling in the water increases heat loss. Survival time can be reduced to minutes. Strong swimmers have died before swimming 100 yards in cold water. In water under 40 degrees F, victims have died before swimming 100 feet. <br /><br />Cold Shock<br /><br /><br />Without a life jacket, a victim may inhale while under water (involuntary gasping reflex) and drown without coming back to the surface. This can only be prevented by wearing a life jacket at all times on the water in the off-season. There is no second chance. <br /><br />Exposure of the head and chest to cold water causes sudden increases in heart rate and blood pressure that may result in cardiac arrest. <br /><br />Other responses to cold water immersion result in immediate loss of consciousness and drowning. <br /><br />Hypothermia<br /><br />Hypothermia (decreased body temperature) develops more slowly than the immediate effects of cold shock. Survival curves show that an adult dressed in average clothing may remain conscious for an hour at 40 degrees F and perhaps 2-3 hours at 50 degrees F (water temp.). The crisis is more serious than these numbers suggest. Any movement in the water accelerates heat loss. Survival time can be reduced to minutes. Hands rapidly become numb and useless. Without thermal protection, swimming is not possible. The victim, though conscious, is soon helpless. Without a life jacket, drowning is unavoidable. <br /><br />Even with a wet suit/dry suit on, one's hands rapidly become useless in water in the low 40's degrees F. Protective fingerless gloves for fishermen can be important. Shivering occurs as body temperature drops from 97 degrees F down to about 90 degrees F. Uncontrolled rapid breathing follows the initial gasping response and may cause loss of consciousness. The victim must attempt to recover control of his/her breathing rate. <br /><br />Muscle rigidity and loss of manual dexterity, physical helplessness, occurs at about 93 degrees F. Mental capacity also deteriorates at this point. <br /><br />Unconsciousness occurs when the body's core temperature reaches about 86 degrees F. If drowning doesn't occur first, death occurs at a core temperature of about 80 degrees F. <br /><br />How Fast Can it Happen? <br /><br />On Memorial Day, 1996, an 18-year old canoeist capsized into 50 degrees F lake water. He sank to the bottom before a rescuer in a boat towing the canoe could reach him. He was wearing blue jeans, a light shirt and no life jacket. His body was recovered the next day by divers. Your ability to survive accidental immersion will depend on how you prepared yourself before going out. <br /><br />

[[old] Carl Henrik]

Excellent posts, ljwagner!<br /><br />When I capsized it was with a 25kg heavier rower. My impression like yours was that me, being lighter, moved much quicker down the symptom ladder.

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-Byron Drachman+Dec 18 2005, 01:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Dec 18 2005, 01:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi LJ,<br /><br />Your story is consistent with that quoted source: The ability to swim and stay afloat in cold water bears little or no relationship to your ability to swim in warm water. According to one study, the upperarm skinfold thickness is a significant factor for survival in cold water. At 145 lbs, you probably didn't have much skinfold thickness on the upperarm. According to that source and others, I agree it's good to practice capsize drills in warm water, but you might have only once chance, if that, to get back into the boat in cold water. <br /><br />I like the suggestion of putting the erg on curved staves. So far I've been practicing feathering with my special handles, and have done some experimenting with attaching a long stick to the handle and having the ends go "around the tabletop" and therefore practicing balancing the boat by using hand heights.  The curved staves would help practice keeping the body from listing to one side. <br /><br />Byron <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Byron, since you are the premier experimenter and equipment modifier on this board, I would suggest that your new project ought to be creating a mechanism that would mount an erg <i><b>on slides</b></i> on staves. I would think that such a mechanism would provide the ultimate replication of real rowing, at least on smooth water. I would think that the difficult part would be ensuring that the slides front and back remain on the same plane at all times. <br /><br />Just a thought. . . . <br /><br />

[[old] Samroot]

I remember rowing in college in the 70s,being swamped in January in the East River,New York. We were finishing practice and had just turned around under the Throgs Neck Bridge,300-400 meters to the dock and it suddenly blew up. I was rowing bow and we took three 'greenies' over the bow-it knocked the wind out of me. The boat was completely swamped below the surface. The coach had us get out of the boat and swim over to the coach boat . I was in about a minute or so,hanging on the side of the boat,I had no feeling in my hands. Somebody grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and pulled me in the boat. We got ashore and ran over to the dorms and it was another 15-20 mins. before we could get in the shower-all extremities burned like h***. It was easily the coldest I've ever been in my life

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would suggest that your new project ought to be creating a mechanism that would mount an erg on slides on staves. </td></tr></table> <br /><br />Hi Porkchop,<br /><br />Great minds think alike...<br /><br />I've already been scrounging around the garage looking for materials to do that. It was a nice suggestion of LJ. As I mentioned before, I've been experimenting with some long sticks attached to the handle in order to ensure doing the "over and under the tabletop" with the oar handles.<br /><br />I just ordered a thermometer so I can get the temperature of the water and follow the guidelines more accurately.<br /><br />Byron