Short rower thread

[coronalsection]

I've been rowing a couple of months, and absolutely love it. As a shorty rower (48yo, 5'7", 62kg), I've tried to focus on getting my technique as good as I can in these early days. Based on helpful advice here, I've followed some videos and have been using the force curve to track my form.

One question I have is that I can achieve a good "haystack"-style force curve but when I video myself, I look like I'm getting very little separation between legs and hips on the drive. However, when I try to sequence the legs and hipswing more, I end up with a "two hills" style force curve, suggesting I need to be smoother in the transition.

It seems I can only get one or the other! Is this something that other short rowers have struggled with? Any tips on how to sequence the legs-hips transition smoothly gratefully received. Or does it not matter, and as long as I'm getting a "haystack" force curve I'm ok?

[Dutch]

If the force curve looks good and there is hardly any transition between leg drive and hip swing on the video then I think you are fine.
It seems to be that you have this vision in your mind of what the transition should be like. Does this come from watching others on you tube? Bear in mind most of them vids are filmed by guys 6ft plus, training tall is 6ft 8. So they will look slightly slower and smoother purely because of their height.
Also what strokes per minute are you doing for your force curve and what spm did you film your self at?
A lot of the guys in the vids are probably doing it at 20 spm, you maybe did yours at a faster rate making you look choppier as you are shorter.
Film your self at 18 spm, 20 spm, 22 spm, and then 25 spm, use your force curve each time to keep form and you will find that you are not as bad as you think.
Also keep the power close say 150 to 160 for each stroke rate so each time you film it all the criteria is the same.
Some of the more experienced guys here will be able to elaborate a bit more maybe, but it sounds like you are in the right place if the force curve looks good!

[Dangerscouse]

Yeah, I agree with Dutch. You might be overthinking the leg to hip transition as it is quite a fast movement and it should be, at least to some extent, quite subtle

Haystack is definitely preferable to two hills.

[Tsnor]

... I can achieve a good "haystack"-style force curve but when I video myself, I look like I'm getting very little separation between legs and hips on the drive. ..

Blend the stroke, hips are working before legs are completely down. For teaching, coaches focus on legs first, but they are really trying to get the bulk of the leg force done before hips drive, not to get legs completely flat before hip drive.

Look at 2:45 in this video. Really nice stroke. See how your stroke differs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ82RYIFLN8&t=163s (Concept2 Australia video "The Rowing Stroke")

note the "BLEND" comment in the video. Note also the actual full speed strokes have more overlap than the slow motion teaching strokes showed. There is overlap of legs and hips. (Do watch the entire video and do the drills, called 'pick' drills. They really help.) If in your video of your stroke your hips are firing while your legs are still very bent then do the pick drills until you fix that. You don't want that. Your legs and hips are fighting. By letting the legs get straighter before hips hit them the legs have an easier time transferring the force to the foot rests.

OR if you like graphs, look at the overlap of Legs and Hips in this diagram. The only way to may a single smooth force curve is to have the hip drive delivering a lot of power as the leg power fades. Peak force is as legs finish and hips are going full. https://www.confluxrehab.com/blog/rowing-force-curve

[coronalsection]

Thanks everyone, that's really helpful advice. I have been keen to focus on my technique early on after watching a few videos suggesting that it's even more important for shorties:

https://youtu.be/fXQf86lOAHY
https://youtu.be/13UNAIGEAXI

However, it's good to know that as long as my force curve looks good I'm probably not going too far wrong. My times are improving week by week, which is all I care about. I'm aware that I'm never going to compete with people twice my size, although perhaps if there are any other 5-foot something rowers out there they could post some times they reached after 2-3 months, as it might be helpful to have a realistic target to aim for.

[Sakly]

I'm aware that I'm never going to compete with people twice my size, although perhaps if there are any other 5-foot something rowers out there they could post some times they reached after 2-3 months, as it might be helpful to have a realistic target to aim for.

I never though about my size for rowing as well as thinking about my fource curve. As long as my stroke feels smooth and strong, I don't feel slack in the catch, I am fine with it.

I am 5 foot 8 and started 13th of January. I have many years fitness/strength bodyweight training background and started rowing as an additional training besides strength training. Current times incl log visible in signature - not after 2-3 month, but perhaps already targets for you even if I am HWT @80kg

[dabatey]

... I can achieve a good "haystack"-style force curve but when I video myself, I look like I'm getting very little separation between legs and hips on the drive. ..

Blend the stroke, hips are working before legs are completely down. For teaching, coaches focus on legs first, but they are really trying to get the bulk of the leg force done before hips drive, not to get legs completely flat before hip drive.

Look at 2:45 in this video. Really nice stroke. See how your stroke differs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ82RYIFLN8&t=163s (Concept2 Australia video "The Rowing Stroke")

note the "BLEND" comment in the video. Note also the actual full speed strokes have more overlap than the slow motion teaching strokes showed. There is overlap of legs and hips. (Do watch the entire video and do the drills, called 'pick' drills. They really help.) If in your video of your stroke your hips are firing while your legs are still very bent then do the pick drills until you fix that. You don't want that. Your legs and hips are fighting. By letting the legs get straighter before hips hit them the legs have an easier time transferring the force to the foot rests.

OR if you like graphs, look at the overlap of Legs and Hips in this diagram. The only way to may a single smooth force curve is to have the hip drive delivering a lot of power as the leg power fades. Peak force is as legs finish and hips are going full. https://www.confluxrehab.com/blog/rowing-force-curve

I'm only a beginner but totally in agreement with this. For me, a correct rowing stroke is a pretty 'natural' pull with legs and hips, and teaching that tries to over-simplify by saying legs then hips then arms actually complicates something that is pretty natural.

[dabatey]

Thanks everyone, that's really helpful advice. I have been keen to focus on my technique early on after watching a few videos suggesting that it's even more important for shorties:

https://youtu.be/fXQf86lOAHY
https://youtu.be/13UNAIGEAXI

However, it's good to know that as long as my force curve looks good I'm probably not going too far wrong. My times are improving week by week, which is all I care about. I'm aware that I'm never going to compete with people twice my size, although perhaps if there are any other 5-foot something rowers out there they could post some times they reached after 2-3 months, as it might be helpful to have a realistic target to aim for.

Well, I'm pretty much likely to be the same build as yourself at a touch under 5ft 8inches and 62kg. I started September 21, so 5 months ago. Apart from the first month where I was just dipping my toes in, I have pretty much posted every day of my training in the what training have you done today thread, so if you want to compare have a look and compare away.

[coronalsection]

I wonder if there’s a way to filter the rankings by height, in the same way you can by weight. The log asks for height in the profile section, so they presumably have that data on most people. I know comparison is the thief of joy and all that, but it would be interesting to see where I rank against other shorties!

[btlifter]

I wonder if there’s a way to filter the rankings by height, in the same way you can by weight. The log asks for height in the profile section, so they presumably have that data on most people. I know comparison is the thief of joy and all that, but it would be interesting to see where I rank against other shorties!

I apologize for being obtuse, but....

How come you want to thieve yourself of joy?

[coronalsection]

Ha ha, you're right! And Roosevelt was right too: as long as I'm improving week by week and enjoying it, that's all that matters.

[Dangerscouse]

Ha ha, you're right! And Roosevelt was right too: as long as I'm improving week by week and enjoying it, that's all that matters.

Definitely. It's a human instinct to compare and try and be lauded within your 'tribe', but it's such a minefield it can all too easily be counter productive.