Concept2 Model D Rower -- HR monitoring

[mict450]

I did watch one amazing video yesterday before doing this session in the evening, which is a to-me incredible routine for beginners, expertly executed in real time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymKHcywkuc Rowing Workouts - The PERFECT BEGINNERS Workout About 26 minutes

That video is a good one that intersperses portions of the pick drill & feet out during a workout. The video recommended by Mitchel is another excellent one to develop more speed/power in your leg drive.

[dmusicant]

So, at the lower stroke rate the speed wasn't fantastic: Average: 318.6m/500m

I'm going to watch all those videos posted in this thread. Thank you!!!

I did watch one amazing video yesterday before doing this session in the evening, which is a to-me incredible routine for beginners, expertly executed in real time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymKHcywkuc Rowing Workouts - The PERFECT BEGINNERS Workout About 26 minutes

I row along with that video every sunday morning as my warmup before my 60 minute row. It's really a great video which breaks down all the elements of the stroke. The low rate of 18 for 20 minutes helps you focus on your technique.

I'm not sure what you meant by "Average: 318.6m/500m". That doesn't make any sense to me.

My bad, I meant 3:18.6m/500m there, off my mark of 2:56.8min/500m, but the faster paced session was 10 minutes, the other 25 minutes, much lower stroke rate (18-20 for the most part), and late in the day in an 80F room. Not so bad. My technique isn't there yet. I'm going to keep working at that, do drills, try the recommended techniques to groove my form.

My greatest concern is that I don't develop an insurmountable problem with my left shoulder using the rower. I had arthroscopic surgery on it around 2002, and the excellent surgeon found a Type IV SLAP lesion (bicep tendon tear), which he repaired on the spot. Rehab was almost a year. He went about making the repair and then scoped around the joint, reporting that the rotator cuff looked perfect (he gave me a video cassette of the procedure from inside the joint and I could hear his commentary). The shoulder flared up a couple years ago, I was having trouble getting a decent night's sleep. MRI/Xray, shoulder surgeon (different one, but friends with my former one!) and physical therapist decided I had rotator cuff issues, and I should stop a few things I was doing in the gym, including my pull-ups. Physical therapist gave me stretches and exercises with stretch bands, and the shoulder gradually improved to where it feels pretty OK. I hope it doesn't flare up now, is what I'm saying. I figure my form on the rower will be important for that.

Right now, I'm feeling like my legs aren't doing enough of the work in my stroke. Looking at the videos I see that on chain retraction, the experts I'm seeing have their hands (and consequently the bar) go almost all the way to the machine. I am not getting close to that. At least 6 inches, maybe a foot most of the time short of that. I think it's partly (probably) because of stiffness in my hips. I have always been stiff in my hips. Whereas most kids (8-12 year olds, etc.) can and do sit cross-legged easily and comfortably, I was never able to do that! That stiffness may have to do with my not getting extended (knees to my chest) as much as expert rowers. I suppose my knees will get closer, maybe a lot closer, as I develop my technique/rhythm/form, however.

[dmusicant]

The video recommended by Mitchel is another excellent one to develop more speed/power in your leg drive.

I think you mean this one:

Using low Damper setting to improve leg drive and timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mqlk_Lo&t=4s

I have that one bookmarked and did watch it a couple days ago. It was suggested to me at the thread at Anandtech Forums (Health and Fitness forum) where I was introduced to the Concept2 Model D Rower. I started that thread because I was trying to decide on some piece of equipment for indoor cardio, my gym having closed in March ( https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ex ... r.2584036/ ). I have decided to watch it (Using low Damper setting to improve leg drive and timing) again before a session, actually my next session, although I failed to do that this morning and watched another. But I was convinced that working that technique with minimum resistance setting would be a great way to develop my form. I am going to do that later this afternoon.

[Ombrax]

Looking at the videos I see that on chain retraction, the experts I'm seeing have their hands (and consequently the bar) go almost all the way to the machine. I am not getting close to that. At least 6 inches, maybe a foot most of the time short of that.

And stroke length is very important - the longer your stroke the more distance (and time) you have to put energy into the flywheel, and for a given amount of work the longer the effort the lower the peak will have to be, which is good - less max force needed and less wear and tear on your body.

If you want to quantify this and monitor how you improve, there are "phone app" erging freeware packages out there that will tell you how long your stroke is. I don't bother to use any of that stuff, but it is readily available if you care to look into it. Many folks on the forum use them and can provide you with more details.

Good Luck

[mitchel674]

I wouldn't be surprised if in your effort to protect your shoulder you wind up shooting the slide. This would lead to a very weak and ineffective drive. You need to "hang" onto the bar as you start your drive. Shoulders, arms and hands relaxed with your core engaged while you start your drive with your legs. You should feel this in your lats and not your shoulders.

A video would help or your could look at your force curve to figure this out.

[dmusicant]

I wouldn't be surprised if in your effort to protect your shoulder you wind up shooting the slide. This would lead to a very weak and ineffective drive. You need to "hang" onto the bar as you start your drive. Shoulders, arms and hands relaxed with your core engaged while you start your drive with your legs. You should feel this in your lats and not your shoulders.

A video would help or your could look at your force curve to figure this out.

I watched a few videos this afternoon because I had no idea what you meant by "shooting the slide." Got a good idea.

Well, I just made good on my intention to do this this afternoon:

Watch: Using low Damper setting to improve leg drive and timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mqlk_Lo&t=4s

Then take his advice. I did the 10 minute set of sets, 25-30 s/min, 1 minute followed by 1/2 minute paddling (I don't know what "paddling" is, but figured it was kind of coasting, mini-strokes with no power), next 1 minute set being 5 seconds faster/500m than the last, 1/2 minute paddling, etc. up to 10 minutes.

My first minute was at about 3:10/500m, last at 2:40/500m IIRC. Went really well, although had pants on and the room was at 78F. 10 minutes is nothing, so to speak. I was trying to get what he talked about, the legs propelling each stroke very early on. I'm sure my form leaves much to be desired. I'm going to keep working at it. This is intriguing. I just had no idea about this stuff before 3 days ago!

[mitchel674]

I wouldn't be surprised if in your effort to protect your shoulder you wind up shooting the slide. This would lead to a very weak and ineffective drive. You need to "hang" onto the bar as you start your drive. Shoulders, arms and hands relaxed with your core engaged while you start your drive with your legs. You should feel this in your lats and not your shoulders.

A video would help or your could look at your force curve to figure this out.

I watched a few videos this afternoon because I had no idea what you meant by "shooting the slide." Got a good idea.

Well, I just made good on my intention to do this this afternoon:

Watch: Using low Damper setting to improve leg drive and timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mqlk_Lo&t=4s

Then take his advice. I did the 10 minute set of sets, 25-30 s/min, 1 minute followed by 1/2 minute paddling (I don't know what "paddling" is, but figured it was kind of coasting, mini-strokes with no power), next 1 minute set being 5 seconds faster/500m than the last, 1/2 minute paddling, etc. up to 10 minutes.

My first minute was at about 3:10/500m, last at 2:40/500m IIRC. Went really well, although had pants on and the room was at 78F. 10 minutes is nothing, so to speak. I was trying to get what he talked about, the legs propelling each stroke very early on. I'm sure my form leaves much to be desired. I'm going to keep working at it. This is intriguing. I just had no idea about this stuff before 3 days ago!

2:40 is a huge increase in power for you. You're learning a lot about the force of the drive. Now aim to hit that at 22spm.

[mict450]

My first minute was at about 3:10/500m, last at 2:40/500m IIRC. Went really well

Mazel tov! Now you're rowing. Soon, you'll be close to 2 mins for your SS sessions. And under 2 for your interval work. Well done!

[dmusicant]

My first minute was at about 3:10/500m, last at 2:40/500m IIRC. Went really well

Mazel tov! Now you're rowing. Soon, you'll be close to 2 mins for your SS sessions. And under 2 for your interval work. Well done!

Thank you! Yeah, if my shoulder holds up, sometimes I feel like I'm getting a little creaky! Knockin' on wood... At my age there always seems to be something. Once in a while I can say, "hey, nothing feels off, wrong at all, no pain at all." But that doesn't happen a whole lot! At least all my issues seem minor, no serious physical issues. I'm due for a blood test (my last was 100% terrific), but want to get my flu shot at the same time. Want to minimize risk of catching the covid, which seems like no fun at all.

[ampire]

Try this video, it has a few drills that will improve your stroke a lot to increase your wattage for the same effort level. The catch drills midway through are really helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLyOyWls9_Y

[mict450]

I could take video of my rowing, don't know how I'd post it, don't remember ever posting video before. I have a few cameras... DSLR, a Canon ELPH that does video too, a tripod.

Perfect!! You've got all the equipment you need. Register for an account with youtube. Upload video to your account, with a link here in this thread. Shoot vid from side, so all parts of stroke visible, head & feet included.

[dmusicant]

Thanks for the tips. Will work with/on them.

I just watched a video that will help me a lot. I've been seeing experts in the videos getting their feet out of the rower in 1/2 a second and wonder how they are doing that. Having never seen anyone in person use the Concept2 rower, I had no clue. This goes into the details, whys and wherefores, and is for me a big help:

How to deal with your feet/shoes on the rower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bPmmHxHXBU

I'm going to do a session now, my first of the day and a repeat of my last, the minimum damper setting for 10 minutes, incremental decreases of ~5 seconds/500m for eacg 1 minute interval with 1/2 minute paddling between each interval. My last and first use of this exercise was great but I want some confidence I have learned it and can carry it forward into subsequent exercises.

[dmusicant]

I'm going to do a session now, my first of the day and a repeat of my last, the minimum damper setting for 10 minutes, incremental decreases of ~5 seconds/500m for eacg 1 minute interval with 1/2 minute paddling between each interval. My last and first use of this exercise was great but I want some confidence I have learned it and can carry it forward into subsequent exercises.

Went well. The first two 1 minute intervals weren't there, I'd forgotten how to go about this, but from then on I was fine. Faster. Most of the intervals around 2:40/500m, S/M averaging ~27. Last minute around 2:35/500m. Total distance 1600m. That's with 1/2 minute paddling between each 1 minute interval of the total 10 minute session.

I'm feeling a bit of soreness in my legs, which I'm quite happy for. I don't usuallyget that. My quad skating, while intense, doesn't get my legs sore. I don't think I'm going to skate today. So little breeze, the cars' exhaust is bothersome and it's getting too warm out there too. I need a day off the skating, have done around 6 days in a row and my stats are suffering. Will do at least one more rowing session today.

[gisborne]

3:34m/500m average

As others have pointed out, this ^^^^ is your problem - your heart isn't working hard because you aren't rowing hard.
To use a cycling analogy, it's as if someone is on a bike, flat road, no wind, going 10 mph, and wondering why their heart rate isn't higher.

Good Luck

To be fair, he is 77 years old. He also only rowed 1600m in that piece.

I'm surprised no one (that I saw) mentioned that the damper setting isn't what matters, it's the drag factor. The damper adjusts the drag factor but it is only one of several things that affect it so it is not an accurate measure of resistance. You can find the drag factor under the utilities section of the PM menu, or if you are using ErgData it will display it continuously as you row. 120-130 is a commonly recommended drag factor though going lower (maybe 110ish) might be better if you are new to rowing and working on your form. Good luck and enjoy! Hopefully you get a chance to try rowing on the water as well some time.

[dmusicant]

Whoops!

Did another session yesterday. Heat wave here, and it was evening, I was ready for dinner (hungry) but figured I either did a session or none for the day and I went upstairs for a short session, with no new thoughts, having watched no videos for at least a few hours, just see how I'd do, with fingers crossed I wouldn't forget what I should remember to not have poor form.

Room was 86.4F (give or take a degree, maybe two), so rather hot. Wearing just shorts and shoes, however.

Decided to go for 10 minutes, try for 22s/m, see if I could hold 2:40/500m.

I did that for a couple minutes, which seemed longer, but continued. I drifted up to 23s/m but held there with little variation. Getting over 5:00, had trouble staying at 2:40, but managed to stay under 2:50/500m.

I determined to make 10:00, however at 8:30 or so I suddenly felt a twinge in my low-middle left back that was ominous. After at most one more stroke I stopped. No sense keeping on, it might get worse. I was at IIRC ~2:41/500m average, and figure averaged 23s/m.

Overnight, my sleep wasn't helped by the dull pain in my back, but by waking time in the morning I didn't much feel it.

So, I'm wondering. I'm very much a newbie and haven't encountered any information concerning warming up before a timed, etc. session. However, it would seem to be a good idea?

I may try something light today, although it might be a better idea to give it a rest for a day or two. The heat wave reaches its highest intensity today, will likely get up to 88F in the workout room by evening Probably 83 now or almost. I do have a 22" square box fan I can situate to blow right at me. I feel OK, but don't want to tempt fate. My back's been better than it's been in decades, actually, but the pandemic has put an end to my core routine since March due to my gym having to shut down operations, so I figure I'm vulnerable to issues. I should establish a regimen for my home workouts that includes core maintenance.