Training Distances For A 2k

[old] Rogus · Post by **[old] Rogus** » May 26th, 2004, 5:09 pm

George, Yes I know about Lydiard. He knew a thing or two about training. I’ve done a fair amount of coaching including track and firmly believe in the concept of periodization of your training. If you want to not just improve, but reach for your best, I think you have to break down your year into stages and target a point where you want to peak. The long distance sessions during the “off season” are the foundation that everything else is built upon. Knowing you have the strength to get through a fast hour, 10K, or HM, gives you the confidence AND foundation to do a very fast 2K even without yet doing any 2nd or 3rd stage 2K specific speed work. While I agree with Ranger that these long sessions help you “solidify technique” and should help you “enhance relaxation.” I see possible misunderstanding of that general statement. Yes, you’ll solidify your technique, but that could be your good or bad technique that gets solidified. Just depends on which you have. The more you do it, however good or bad it is, the more it becomes your stroke. Also, you might not learn to relax on these long distance. You just might get in better shape to go further without relaxing. I think both good technique and relaxation take effort to achieve. You have to decide to improve on them consciously and decide to work on it over time until it becomes second nature. That seems weird to say you have to work to relax, but in essence you have to start with forcing yourself mentally to relax before you can truly learn to relax. As Ranger says he does, I also use my long sessions to do this training in technique and relaxation. I make a conscious effort to use an efficient stroke and relax while doing it. If you want to achieve impressive times, particularly in the longer distances, you have to learn to be an efficient erger. While, I think efficiency is important at shorter distances of 2K and under, it gets progressively less so as the distance shortens. In the longer distances, inefficiency gets magnified over the time. For example, I use my arms more than some which actually helps my 2K time because I can do that for the time of a 2K. I can’t do that in longer efforts and have to work on relaxing the arms so they don’t fatigue prematurely. Don’t get me wrong, I think doing interval work year round can lead to improvement, I just don’t think you’ll reach that upper potential you have by doing so. I think most who erg could be much faster by not focusing on going so fast so often.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » May 26th, 2004, 5:14 pm

George-- For various reasons, I am not doing a lot of the long rowing that I used to do. But it might be important that, at one point, I did indeed do this work. When I first began to row, I just rowed an hour each day (two hours a day when I was on vacation). I did this for almost a year and a half. During the holidays before I set the lwt 50s world record in the 2003 CRASH-Bs, I rowed over a million (slow) meters, over 30K a day, in the Holiday Challenge (a month of rowing), including a 6:47 100K and one day where I rowed 167K (14 hours!). Unfortunately, I have changed my stroke, and so I again need to do distance work to build up comparable endurance with it. As before, it is going to take some time to build up to such long distances, but I think these things will come eventually. Once they do, I will know my base is set for using my new stroke efficiently in the 2K. Right now, I am just doing 10-15K. But I am going to stick with it until I can do marathons with some ease, perhaps even another 100K. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » May 26th, 2004, 5:43 pm

George-- By the way, despite its difficulty, I have become a disciple of strapless distance rowing in the off season. Unfortunately, I think what Rogus says might be true in many cases. A lot of distance rowing can encourage/solidify bad technique (e.g., weak stroking, bad timing, wrong leverage, etc.). The way around this, I think, is to row strapless. Strapless rowing is difficult and slower (and therefore takes quite a bit of time to get used to), but it forces good technique--powerful stroking, good timing, and proper leverage. If you do a lot of strapless distance rowing during the off season, it is quite a rush when you strap back in and gear up for intervals and racing. Strapped in, it is easier to pump up the rate, engage the back, and lengthen the stroke in various ways (e.g., by leaning at the finish). These things add quite a bit of pace, for me, 4-5 seconds per 500, I think. This effect is enhanced even further if you do this strapless rowing at low drag. Rowing at low drag encourages fast feet and an early engagement of the legs. If you get used to engaging the legs early and fully over long distances at low drag, you really get a boost when you put the drag back up for the racing season. In the off season last year, I rowed strapless, 15-20K a day, at 20-22 spm and 1:55 or so. That's all the rowing I did. When the fall arrived, I sharpened for six weeks or so with a standard array of intervals, distance trials, and power rowing. Result: I broke my world record twice, lowering my 2K by two more seconds (from 6:30 to 6:28). In the off-season this year, I am trying to do similar sorts of strapless distance rowing, but at somewhat higher paces and rates (e.g., 1:50 and 25 spm). ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » May 26th, 2004, 10:51 pm

Ok then lets talk specifics ..... I have 16 weeks to our Nationals and week 8 is a family holiday so I want to plan my build up. My idea was to do no intervals till after the break so that is about 7 weeks of intensity and pre-holiday is the endurance phase. Longish rows strapless???? Till the break 10 -15k plus per session at rates 25/26spm and below and work on strength / enduarnace / technique and relaxation?? - george

[old] Rogus · Post by **[old] Rogus** » May 26th, 2004, 11:11 pm

This was my suggestion as I posted earlier in the week on the UK forum: Too early to be doing any structured interval work. Instead for the next two/three months depending on when you are going to race and assuming you have been erging enough to start this level of training, I suggest the following plan. If you aren't yet in shape to erg this amount, just reduce the distances in half or whatever amount you need and build on them on weekly basis. Monday: Hard session of 10K to one hour. PB efforts OK, but no shorter than 6K and not all out PB efforts every week. More like every second or third week for an all out effort. Tuesday: Easy Recovery row of 10-15k Wednesday: Medium 10k-15K Thursday: Fartlek 10-15K These would be negative splits rows, 5 min on 5 min off but not to the degree of difference in a full interval session, or any variation of speed play that sounds interesting. Done this way as part of a long row, you don't get to focused on exact intervals and times, but you do add some variation to your sessions and get to work on faster splits and/or stroke rates. Friday: Easy Recovery day 10k-15K Saturday: Long row of 15K+ At the end of this time and depending on the race you want to peak at, you can start to add in structured intervals. Have the discipline to do the long "boring" rows and I think in the end you'll improve a lot more than doing interval sessions throughout all your training. Few athletes can be successful without a training plan that adjusts for the differences in off season and in season training. Off season is used to build the foundation and endurance that allows you to produce fast times during the season. I also recommend using a heart rate monitor and using it to pace yourself. Anybody who wants more details, just let me know. George, If I were you, I'd follow this program for the first 8 weeks. Take your family vacation and try to get in some CV work during it. Then come back refreshed and ready to work in longer structured intervals twice a week for the next 3 weeks. Then move to shorter faster intervals for one or both of the interval days depending on what you need to work on in the next 3 weeks leading up to the race. The week before the race is a taper week. If you want to move into intervals a bit sooner, you could add 2 X 5K or even 3 x5K in the latter part of that second month. Like Ranger, I think 5K intervals are great training for the 2K. What actual intervals you do would depend on what you need to train. Do you need to work on faster SR or being able to tolerate lactic acid build up over the 2K? That kind of stuff.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » May 27th, 2004, 5:31 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (GeorgeD @ May 26 2004, 09:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ok then lets talk specifics ..... I have 16 weeks to our Nationals and week 8 is a family holiday so I want to plan my build up. My idea was to do no intervals till after the break so that is about 7 weeks of intensity and pre-holiday is the endurance phase. Longish rows strapless???? Till the break 10 -15k plus per session at rates 25/26spm and below and work on strength / enduarnace / technique and relaxation?? - george </td></tr></table> George-- An hour or more of continuous strapless rowing, concentrating on relaxation and technique, I think, would be great as a preparation stage for the competitive season. I also like Rogus's idea of varying the long rows--hard, medium, easy, fartlek, etc. No need to do these rows all at the same stroke rate and pace, or even in the same format. I just do this variation by feel and whim (I don't think it matters much, as long as you feel good and are performing well from day to day), but you seem to like more specified plans. If so, Rogus's weekly rotation might appeal to you. Given your size and commitment, if you get some quality endurance, you could be a monster in the 2K. Tore Foss comes to mind. By the way, in doing this strapless rowing, I wouldn't worry as much about your paces and times as your psychological and physical energies. Feel good. Like what you are doing. Push it when you feel your can and want to. Relax as much as possible. Put on some good music and let your mind wander. Make it automatic. Build your psychic and physical resources. Then let it rip in the 6 weeks before your competition. Give it the gun. Bear down hard. Spill your guts. ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » May 31st, 2004, 4:51 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ May 27 2004, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> [QUOTE= but you seem to like more specified plans. If so, Rogus's weekly rotation might appeal to you. ******* By the way, in doing this strapless rowing, I wouldn't worry as much about your paces and times as your psychological and physical energies. ranger  </td></tr></table> Tks Ranger, I think I like plans because I row early in the morning before work and knowing what I am going to be doing the night before allows me to think about it as I walk down to the gym. But I also realise that one can become a slave to 'plan' and that now is probably not the time, but more so when it will be really important and that the weeks leading up to the race. Not worrying about pace and times is a problem for me as I like to 'feel' as if I am putting in a solid effort even tho I 'know' that that is not always the best way to approach especially endurance work where the benefits are more varied and the body needs recovery days.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » May 31st, 2004, 12:57 pm

George-- I just mentioned the business about pace and strapless rowing because (for me at least) strapless rowing is both slower and harder than rowing strapped in. In the beginning at least, I was also primarily an "upper body" rower. Strapless rowing reverses this emphasis and forces good technique (i.e. rowing primarily with the legs). If you are like me, you might find that strapless rowing is both hard and slow--but at the same time _very_ good for you, the best thing you could do to improve. A danger in this situation, however, is overwork, trying to get to paces and rates that you would achieve rowing more with your upper body. No need for this. Do the work for your legs rowing strapless, regardless of how slow and hard it is. Then when you strap in, you can cheat with your upper body (but now with stronger legs and perhaps better timing and sequencing). Result: Zooooooooom. ranger

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » May 31st, 2004, 4:28 pm

Having rowed at least 7 million meters strapless, my impression is that it is helpful, but not necessary, in making sure to utilize the front part of the stroke. It's also helpful to make sure of not over leaning at the back, which was never a problem for me anyway. However, it is not as helpful for the rest of the stroke, and can be disadvantageous. For example, rowing with straps is something like this: back <----------straps----------> front And without is like this: back -----|||---------------------> front Check out the video of Eskild Ebbesen. I don't know if he ever rows without straps, but in a race his motion is directly front to back, and his style would go off the back rowing strapless. Thus I think rowing strapless is "okay" for checking style now and then, but the most effective training and rowing is "with" the straps.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » May 31st, 2004, 5:44 pm

Ranger I am not sure exactly how rowing with no straps ensures you bring more legs into the equation can you expand it for me. I know that something in my stroke has changed over my career and I no longer loosen them off as dramatically as I used to especially when sprinting, so that would point to technical improvements. I am also trying to give thought to the efficiency of my stroke and hence to energy expenditure over time ... after all at the end of a race I am going to be totally exhausted and I want to ensure that ecxpense was spent judiciously in going as fast as I can. I want it to be smooth thru all phases and in the application of force at the catch and thru the drive, I want the recovery to start and finish rhythmically .... I think Paul S said it once that the stroke should almost be like a pendulum in motion.