Pete Plan 2017

[mdpfirrman]

@ Ivo - if I recall, you're pretty strong. As you get better on the endurance pieces (the intermediate intervals, which are meant to be an AT workout), you'll see huge improvements in your times. You're already stronger than I am, you just need more AT work to be able to sustain that power over the course of a 2K. You'll get there (and blow by me!).

@ Optimus - the dull knee thing you mentioned worries me a bit. Sounds like the beginning of runner's knee / jumper's knee. I used to run (that's actually why I took up rowing -- I was a TERRIBLE runner and also I had chronic runner's knee that just wouldn't go away). There are straps that go under your knee if you need them -- you can't wear them when you row (they rub the crap out of your skin if you try to row with them) but they are fantastic for running. I'm hoping it's not runner's knee (if you find walking down stairs hurts a bit more than up stairs, it's probably runner's knee). Very cheap these straps. Just keep the patella from tracking wrong. Keep an eye on that. By the way, I think what you are trying to do with running and rowing is admirable, just very, very hard to do. Running and rowing aren't compatible - actually, they are nearly counterproductive. Running - you want to be light and nimble. Rowing - it's all about leg strength. Big legs are fantastic for rowing. I've only learned recently how important your legs are rowing. I'm certainly not going to say you can't hit both your goals (2K under 7 and under a 40' 10K running), but that's a really tough goal you set for yourself. Just stay healthy and listen to your body. Out of curiosity, do you ever do a long, slow day (either running or rowing)? Personally, I think that's one of my weaknesses in my current (and past) plans. I'm talking a 80 to 90 minute slow run or slow row. Most really fast runners (and fast rowers) I know do a long, slow day once a week or more.

Also, nice work on the 4 X 2000 - yes, that is probably the hardest workout that there is in the PP. Eventually, to hit your goal of a sub 7 2K, that workout needs to be all in the 7:30s. I've never seen anyone crack 7 minutes that wasn't in the 7:30s on that 4 X 2K (on at least 3 of the reps).

[optimuswolf]

@ Optimus - the dull knee thing you mentioned worries me a bit. Sounds like the beginning of runner's knee / jumper's knee. I used to run (that's actually why I took up rowing -- I was a TERRIBLE runner and also I had chronic runner's knee that just wouldn't go away). There are straps that go under your knee if you need them -- you can't wear them when you row (they rub the crap out of your skin if you try to row with them) but they are fantastic for running. I'm hoping it's not runner's knee (if you find walking down stairs hurts a bit more than up stairs, it's probably runner's knee). Very cheap these straps. Just keep the patella from tracking wrong. Keep an eye on that. By the way, I think what you are trying to do with running and rowing is admirable, just very, very hard to do. Running and rowing aren't compatible - actually, they are nearly counterproductive. Running - you want to be light and nimble. Rowing - it's all about leg strength. Big legs are fantastic for rowing. I've only learned recently how important your legs are rowing. I'm certainly not going to say you can't hit both your goals (2K under 7 and under a 40' 10K running), but that's a really tough goal you set for yourself. Just stay healthy and listen to your body. Out of curiosity, do you ever do a long, slow day (either running or rowing)? Personally, I think that's one of my weaknesses in my current (and past) plans. I'm talking a 80 to 90 minute slow run or slow row. Most really fast runners (and fast rowers) I know do a long, slow day once a week or more.

Also, nice work on the 4 X 2000 - yes, that is probably the hardest workout that there is in the PP. Eventually, to hit your goal of a sub 7 2K, that workout needs to be all in the 7:30s. I've never seen anyone crack 7 minutes that wasn't in the 7:30s on that 4 X 2K (on at least 3 of the reps).

Thanks as always Mike. The knee...it's an odd one and I think it is the rowing that is causing the problem. The pain is v dull and unaffected by any movement/weight. I've always run and played football, rugby etc with very few knee problems. I will post a technique video this weekend - I don't think my shins are past perpendicular at the snatch but that is the most obvious problem.

I am very 'bottom-heavy' in terms of muscle (think the build of a rugby winger from the 70s...) but have to be careful about putting on weight - I have a really flimsy skeletal structure and being heavy would wreck my later life. Personally I think many men are overweight for their bone structure and don't realise the damage walking around like this will do to their knees, hips and back. I75-180 should be tops for me.

I'm building up to one 80-90 minn run per week and one 60 min row. I think both goals are pretty modest for someone in good shape. Maybe I'm wrong though - a good friend who was a Henley finalist a few times in years gone by always had a ridiculous running style he put down to his rowing.

Regardless, I can always rely on you to tell me how far I've got to go After I get back from the States in late May I'll be coming to you for advice on how to combine lifting and rowing...

[Rowan McSheen]

31:33.2 7,500m 2:06.2 24
6:25.8 1,500m 2:08.6 23
6:25.8 1,500m 2:08.6 23
6:25.7 1,500m 2:08.5 23
6:25.4 1,500m 2:08.4 24
5:50.5 1,500m 1:56.8 27

Now that is what I call a negative split

[Rowan McSheen]

Good evening all.

BPP week 10 optional 4th session: 8000m ss with negative split in final 2k as previously. Done as before, holding 2:14-ish at first and then 2:12-ish and 2:11-ish, with hr peaking lower but overall the same and spm similar.

Enjoyable. I like the negative split steady rows, there's just enough to maintain focus during those final boring couple of 1,000m.

[mdpfirrman]

SS today for me. Used my rowing seat (the one from my wife). Helped a ton! Felt really comfortable. 40' (short and sweet) @ 2:07.5 / 22 to 23 SPM (you'd have been proud of me Paul). Felt pretty easy overall. Put the DF down to a reasonable level (around 120) and had a nice row. Probably could have gone 50' at that pace but I wanted to ease back into more meters. Before doing the PP again, I was around 40K meters a week. Now I'm probably 55K-ish. That's a pretty significant bump (thus the sore bottom).

@ Optimus - I'm not trying to be a negative Nellie! I'm just a realist. As far as the lifting part, I think I'm better giving lifting advice to the Masters guys and invalids (like me). You're young and strong. I think guys like Shawn Baker, Glenn, Remi and Henry would probably be better suited to give you advice on lifting. I do believe compound is the way to go. I also believe that you should start with a solid base of light weights, high reps and gradually build to more explosive stuff and low rep / higher weight stuff. Personally (and I've seen others say counter to this), I find lifting on my interval days to be most effective for me. I like to keep my SS days easier (including no lifting). Makes for a hard day, but I feel I recover better doing this. I do a lot of kettlebell work (easy on the knees). Now, Shawn Baker (that just set the over 50 WR on the 500m - he has the Sprint thread) uses a KB too (but his is like 100 lbs - my heaviest is 52 lbs or so). He also uses obviously heavy barbells too. You probably could handle more barbell stuff than I could. My son is a pretty solid power lifter (so I've done a little). Just don't like the way my right knee (structurally) feels when I lift really heavy barbells. Feels like it's a rickety joint ready to go "kaboom" at any time! I had two surgeries on that knee just to be able to walk ten years ago. I'm forced to do more KB swings, creative lifting that doesn't stress the knees too much.

[calalli]

21/4/17 BPP 4.5 2x2500M 2:00r - plan was to go 1 second quicker than yesterday pace, so 2:11.8
Did a bit better, trying to stay in UT1 - around 143-144 if I understand these things

Time Meters /500m Watts Cal/Hr s/m
21:49.8 5,000m 2:10.9 156 836 23
10:52.0 2,500m 2:10.4 158 843 23
10:57.7 2,500m 2:11.5 154 829 22

[IefTheChief]

31:33.2 7,500m 2:06.2 24
6:25.8 1,500m 2:08.6 23
6:25.8 1,500m 2:08.6 23
6:25.7 1,500m 2:08.5 23
6:25.4 1,500m 2:08.4 24
5:50.5 1,500m 1:56.8 27

Now that is what I call a negative split

Yes, I was laughing out loud even before I started, I had this mega neg split planned when I saw the slow 2:09 target. Really is too slow for me, I clearly didn't know how to pace these sessions when I started PP (and started rowing) in January. Will take me another 3 cycles before I am at the under 2:00 where I think I should be and where I really start to work on AT. Until that time, I don't like these sessions, they are short and I feel begin/mid UT1.

@Mike you say that I need more AT work, but now I don't do any, except on the hard days. I ask your approval to target 2:04 or lower next cycle EDIT: Unless I actually am in AT land but don't realize it (as Paul rightly pointed out before, PP is not HR based and I have never been tested). Either way, I can do this session harder and don't like the hold back.

Today didn't want to look at pace at all, set PM to 500 kCal and 100 kCal splits.

PP C4W1D4 SS, 500 kCal

38:40.5 8,453m 2:17.2 20 (100 kCal splits)
7:53.6 1,707m 2:18.7 21
15:21.7 1,664m 2:14.6 21
23:28.2 1,686m 2:16.7 21
31:25.3 1,692m 2:17.2 20
39:27.8 1,705m 2:18.8 20

Tomorrow hard day! Might have another go at the 2K (but then paced correctly). On the other hand, I might not, we'll see how the day feels

[IefTheChief]

Before doing the PP again, I was around 40K meters a week. Now I'm probably 55K-ish. That's a pretty significant bump (thus the sore bottom).

That's interesting (not your sore bottom). Just checked and I do around 35K per week on the PP, sometimes 40K and very sometimes 45K. Have done 55K per week twice but not lately. I don't have the feeling that I do short steady sessions, mostly 10K, and equal 60' and 8K's. But sometimes I swap a steady session for other labour so it's not logged. But 55K that's a lot I think?

[mdpfirrman]

@ Ivo - two sessions in the PP are AT pieces - the hard row and the intermediate intervals. Both should push the boundaries of your AT, especially the intermediate intervals (why they are the hardest row of the entire PP).

Regarding meters, Jack pointed this out to me a while ago. If you do all the W/U and C/D you should do with the PP, you'll increase your meters significantly. Also, on my SS days, it's not uncommon for me to do 11K or 12K meters. I usually row for 50' or 55'. Just with being a bit faster than you on the SS work (not much, just a bit), I can easily get in 35K just on the 3 SS days. Add in 3K (W/U of 2K / CD of 1K) on the short interval day, 2K (1K WU / 1K CD) on the intermediate day -- that's 40K. Add in 8K for the intermediates - 48K. Add in 4K more for the speed intervals - 52K. I might be off a couple K here and there, but pretty close. When I'm not doing the PP (and doing more lifting / shorter intervals), I'm more like 40K, so 12K is a significant bump. If you've ever been a runner, the running rule is don't add more than 10% per week. 40K to 50K is 20%, so I'm shortening my SS work a bit to transition (for now). In a week or two, I'll be doing 11.5K / 12K per SS session again (on occasion I'll hit 13K on a 55' row). Pete just says do as much work on the SS as you can do in an hour (remember it's a "lunch hour" plan). Only stipulation on the SS work is it's over 8K and to be done in an hour. If I did a true "hour", it would be around 14K (that's a relative "easy" hour for me).

Do you log warmups and cool downs? I certainly do! It all counts.

Nice work Cal! Good work on the SS too Ivo!

[sdr2017]

Thank you for all the warm welcomes!

Mike, thank you for the explanation about the thread and your part in starting it up. It is a nice place to learn about rowing as we progress.

BPP Week 6.4 (10 min + ...)
I went ca. 11 min at a 2:15 pace and then stopped.

I pulled a muscle in the side of my back yesterday (not by rowing!). I tried to row this morning and it started off sore and got worse and worse. I finally threw in the towel after about 11 min; I was adjusting my stroke to avoid putting pressure on the right side of my back. Of course that made a mess of my stroke. I spent the rest of the day grunting every time I tried to stand up.

I will take a few days off and then get back to it. The next thing up in Week 7 is an 8000 M session. I will try something very light in a few days before I jump back in.

It was going so well.

[IefTheChief]

@mike thanks for that breakdown. I do mostly 10K's on my SS days (avg 42-45 minutes) so there's the difference. On average I do 2K warmups only on the hard days. Because I don't warmup on the SS days I only work for 45 minutes plus 5 minutes stretching on most SS days (80% of them. 20% I do a 60' row). So you're still rowing then, there are the kilometers. I did do more meters in cycle 1 and 2 I noticed, did more 1 hr rows.

PP C4W1D5. Really didn't feel like a hard day today and swapped for a very relaxed SS 8K @ 2:20 to make some more meters. Aiming for a good 5K next week, maybe can do under 20'.

[Gaucho1]

@Mike - I wish you all the best with your new dogs. They can´t replace the old pal but they can give new energy and happiness.
I´ve lost my dog almost two years ago - he was almost 11 years old - and i´m still missing him. He accompanied me while running, horseback riding and doing many other things. He was a part of the family.
Some friends of mine and me moved with five horses to a new location so there was lot´s of work and not much time for rowing.
I´m trying to keep my condition and to concentrate on technique. Today:

45:07.2 10,066m 2:14.4 144 795 17 133

Best regards and have a nice Sunday
Dietmar

[mdpfirrman]

@ Dietmar - Great to see you on here! Hate when life gets in the way of rowing! Agree with you completely about new furry additions not being able to replace our old friends. My wife was in pieces after losing our boy (I was too, to be honest) but we're young enough to handle more now. The shelters around here are overflowing and people a lot kinder than I are taking 8 to 10 dogs in at a time until they find permanent homes. The wife has always wanted a big Bernese Mountain Dog but I would never, ever get a breeder dog with all the overpopulation / unwanted ones now. So, we were fortunate to find two big fellas (a boy and a girl) that the "foster" mom wanted to adopt out together. Mother was a Beagle, but they are already 30 lbs @ 13 weeks (they will be big!). They're mutts (certainly not purebred) but that's fine with us. Within a week, nearly potty trained (they respond GREAT to treats!). So glad you're able to get in a row. Sounds very busy!

@ Scott - I hope your side/back feels better. That's bad timing! Got to take care of your body first. I hope you feel better soon...

@ Ivo - I think sub 20 is very reasonable for you. You're stronger, though than in better cardio shape (based on just what I've seen of your times). I wish I had your strength. Cardio can certainly be trained. I'm about to go from more of a strength phase (before this round of PP) to more of a cardio phase (with more meters) after the next round of PP. I think I've read that cardio improvements take 16 to 20 weeks roughly (though true cardio ability comes from up to a lifetime of work). Cardio is the hardest thing to improve. Speed comes fairly rapidly. Strength can also be improved semi-rapid (but not as fast as speed).

[mdpfirrman]

Today was my last speed workout of Round One of PP. The 4 X 1000. Aside from the intermediate intervals, I think this is the hardest of the short intervals.

From today's log:

PP 4 X 1000

1:49.6 / 27
1:49.3 / 27
1:50.0 / 28
1:53.7 / 27

1:50.6 / 27

Wanted to push it a bit. Pete Plan says that a "good" pace is your recent 2K PB pace (for me 1:49.7) + 1 second. So that would be 1:50.7. I was thinking if I could do a 1:50 that would be great. Pushed a bit the first two and faded the last one. Hung in there. Hurt a bit but ended up with a decent average -- not great, not terrible. [End log]

The log pretty much summed up my feeling on this one. I didn't lift before the workout. I have a lot of yard work to do today. Going to do my best to get the lift in tonight. Last one was rough (as expected) and faded in the last 500 especially but I hung in there and never once went over 2:00 pace though I was really struggling to catch my breath. A trick I've learned (when it's painful) is to focus your mind on the SPM and nothing else. I used to count strokes till I was done (still do at times) but when you look at the SPM on painful intervals and figure out what SPM you need to keep your pace, it does take your mind (just a bit) off the pain.

[IefTheChief]

Very nice session Mike, well done! I have the same spm "trick" and do it on most of the rows. By counting strokes and focussing on spm I can quickly get in a kind of trance that gets me completely focussed. I do then often go faster automatically so I still need to check speed every 10 strokes or so and adjust the "trance power".

PP C4W1D6 10K SS, 2:22 speed. Again a relaxed session today. Tomorrow break then some hard work in week 2!