Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[mininick]

After the disastrous first attempt at this two days ago, I followed most people's advice and gave myself another day off before attempt no. 2 today. To remind people, I HD'ed 1300m in to the 6000m at my normal pace and wasn't able to maintain any sort of pace really to get the metres done. Slate wiped clean for today's attempt.

BPP W3D1

6000m. Target: steady 2:18 through to the end.
Result: 2:24.9, r22

A much more accurate description would be this: 5700m @ 2:18, HD, last 300m @3:30 (variable!) pace.

So near! Again, not giving myself a hard time. Wrote down any factors that might have contributed and will have another go on D3 to get to the end in one go. I remember feeling very dehydrated with about 1500m to go. From the beginning I had a feeling that my heart was beating stronger and more quickly than usual - no HR monitor so I can't be certain, but that was the feeling. A couple of other things...will look for any correlation if this kind of thing happens again.

Frustrating to get so close but not quite get there. I don't feel like I need to abandon or relax my 2:18 target yet. It was fine for the first two weeks and I had a lot left in the tank for the final 500m. If it's not possible on D3 then I will drop to 2:20 for Week 4 and try that. Onwards and unpwards.

[G-dub]

Mininik, some unsolicited ideas:
1. Sometimes when it feels heavy, I reduce drag just to promote a quicker feel in the legs.
2. Sometimes when I can't break through a distance, I start a few seconds slower than average goal pace then work it down through the piece so that I have more at the end.
3. We want to encourage strong strokes, but sometimes it helps to up the rating to make the stroke a little softer, which for me helps me go faster for longer than if I was using more pressure, which tires my legs more than my lungs.
4. I also play a game sometimes where I will change my rating and/or pace every 1K or so and maybe speed up for 10-20 strokes, or pull lighter for 1-20 strokes, or push harder for 10-20 strokes to create a little bit of variety. I have even taken shorter strokes with big deep breaths to get through a tough patch. This wouldn't be possible on the water, but we aren't on the water.
5. Similar to #4, I also sometimes ride a little higher than average then push it back down every 500-1K. Not very efficient but it takes off chunks of time and gives my mind short term goals.

[aussieluke]

Mininik, some good ideas from Glenn up there

I might add it could be worth trying to opposite advice too regarding rating up - I really like rating low and find during a long piece of I'm getting totally out of breath, dropping the rating to 20 or less, even though you have to drive a lot harder to maintain the same pace, it will allow you to slow down your breathing and give you much longer to recover between strokes. So worth trying both.

Also, I am a big fan of using the 'just row' option instead of setting up a fixed distance workout. That way if you get to a point you just want to handle down, or get so sweaty it's driving you mad, or just want some water etc, you can stop rowing and after about 5 seconds the counter will pause. I find everything goes a lot better if I take 30-60 seconds every 20 minutes or so. Just stop, stand up, drink some water, towel off, quick lower back stretch, touch toes etc, another wipe, sip and get back on the misery seat and get going again.

Takes no time at all, will have essentially no negative effect on fitness gains, and will ultimately allow you to train longer, more often. And bear in mind even competitive college rowers etc will do this too, eg do 3 x 20 minutes instead of 60 mins straight through.

Only note is don't pause too long or the screen will go blank and you'll have to start a new workout. Keep tapping any of the buttons to keep it on while you're standing up.

[aussieluke]

Luke, it will get better next time around! You had a lot left anyway judging by last rep. It's a long journey though for sure through 4 of them. Well done really for the first time through.

Yeah I hope so! I think if I'd eaten more beforehand I've had been able to go a tiny bit harder at the end, but I honestly had nothing left. Felt very close to the feeling of a single 2k tt on that last rep.

Looking forward to the 4x1000 next week now. It will be faster, but will only last half as long!

[bisqeet]

some wicked results and very consequent training paying off.

took a week of the "strenuous" stuff , hope to be back after the long weekend next week.
this was my last 5 days:

24.08_ Sunday: 13km in an eight: Roseninsel8er (came 51 from 75 in a mixed 8 - oldest in our boat was a 71 year old)
25.08_ Monday: day off
26.08_ Tuesday: 21097m @R20 1:58 - 1:22:47,7
27.08_ Wednesday: 21097m @R20 2:01 - 1:25:20,6 + 10000m OTW in a single - about R18 - nothing strenuous - just needed to get out - an empacher wooden shell that belongs in a museum
28.08_Thursday: 21097m @R18 2:03 - 1:26:49,2

[mininick]

Mininik, some unsolicited ideas:
1. Sometimes when it feels heavy, I reduce drag just to promote a quicker feel in the legs.
2. Sometimes when I can't break through a distance, I start a few seconds slower than average goal pace then work it down through the piece so that I have more at the end.
3. We want to encourage strong strokes, but sometimes it helps to up the rating to make the stroke a little softer, which for me helps me go faster for longer than if I was using more pressure, which tires my legs more than my lungs.
4. I also play a game sometimes where I will change my rating and/or pace every 1K or so and maybe speed up for 10-20 strokes, or pull lighter for 1-20 strokes, or push harder for 10-20 strokes to create a little bit of variety. I have even taken shorter strokes with big deep breaths to get through a tough patch. This wouldn't be possible on the water, but we aren't on the water.
5. Similar to #4, I also sometimes ride a little higher than average then push it back down every 500-1K. Not very efficient but it takes off chunks of time and gives my mind short term goals.

Thanks, Glenn. Definitely lots of things I can try from this. The drag factor has been on my mind - whether I should drop it or not. I'll try to experiment a bit more in my warm ups to get more of an idea of what might suit me best. Starting slightly slower and gradually increasing in pace is definitely an option - I have been trying to avoid that to date, but if I have more problems in the future, rather than dropping the average I could try that method.

No. 3 is one that I have tried a little. My general fitness doesn't like it much, unfortunately. As for 4 and 5, kind of similar to no. 2, I really want to try and find a pace that I can stick to throughout the sessions without needing to up the adrenaline ante and push through. I'm sure there is a more scientific way of writing this, but I feel my anaerobic 'fitness' is in a slightly better place compared with my aerobic fitness, hence wanting that steady pace for days one and three and keeping the anaerobic work to the intervals days as much as possible.

I might add it could be worth trying to opposite advice too regarding rating up - I really like rating low and find during a long piece of I'm getting totally out of breath, dropping the rating to 20 or less, even though you have to drive a lot harder to maintain the same pace, it will allow you to slow down your breathing and give you much longer to recover between strokes. So worth trying both.

This is something I have had some success with and will try again when the going gets tough. 22 normally feels a good rating for me in the longer sessions but today even that was hard to maintain, mostly down to lack of fitness. My legs have always been quite powerful, relative to the rest of my body, so lowering the rate could help.

Also, I am a big fan of using the 'just row' option instead of setting up a fixed distance workout. That way if you get to a point you just want to handle down, or get so sweaty it's driving you mad, or just want some water etc, you can stop rowing and after about 5 seconds the counter will pause. I find everything goes a lot better if I take 30-60 seconds every 20 minutes or so. Just stop, stand up, drink some water, towel off, quick lower back stretch, touch toes etc, another wipe, sip and get back on the misery seat and get going again.

Takes no time at all, will have essentially no negative effect on fitness gains, and will ultimately allow you to train longer, more often. And bear in mind even competitive college rowers etc will do this too, eg do 3 x 20 minutes instead of 60 mins straight through.

Thanks for this - I considered stopping for water but didn't want my pace to look like it had dropped off. Consequently, it dropped off anyway when the handle went down. Next time I'll just have a drink!

I'd be interested to hear from other people on the BPP and PP about if and when they take drinks breaks...?

[Pie Man]

I try to ensure I am well hydrated before I even get to the gym, I then drink 200ml or more before my warm up and after, if I am doing intervals I ensure I have drinks lined up so I can have at least 200ml in the breaks, however I do sweat a lot. I always use the 'tepid' water from the gym dispenser I find it more palatable than the ice cold water especially after a hard session. I rarely drink during a longer row, but my longest rows are only around 45 minutes at the moment when I start to row for longer I will probably need to take on some liquid.

[gooseflight]

Good advice from Glenn. And of course sometimes a distance piece is about doing the distance and not doing The Time.

Also bear in mind that just a couple of power 10s in the last 1K can take one second of the average without affecting the overall rate. If I knock that second off at the end, the next time I row the piece I aim to start at that average and row it flat. Just another way of chipping away.

[mdpfirrman]

No way I'm going to catch up with the whole thread. Just when I was feeling better yesterday, was up half the night with an incredible back ache - no reason for it other than I suppose fighting off this flu and body aches - usually I get those in the lower back or neck from old injuries when I'm sick.

Really jealous of the times / workouts everyone's doing but I'm glad now I decided to rest a few more days. I think I'll try to pick it up on Sunday if feeling up to it and just skip the whole week. Really wondering how much progress I'm losing but I got the flu last year too and by my indoor race in February, that didn't seem to matter, so I suppose better getting the flu for the season out of the way now! With vacation coming up too, I just have to trust all the hard work I've done all year matters for something. Since my race last February, I've rowed 6 days a week except for this week and one week due to a bad lower back. I've also done PP type intervals all year (though less in number for most of the year until last month when I resumed the full PP interval type work).

Glenn - Great waterfall!! Really nice considering your body was being pushed.

Tim - The 3 X 2000 you did was solid. Nice negative splits. It does get better.

M-Nick - Great advice from Glenn / Luke. Don't be concerned with pace as much. Just work on finishing the piece and feeling good about that.

Piers - Sorry about your back. Been there too. SS work is smart for you now. Sometimes easy SS work helps my lower back.

Luke - That 4 X 2000 was something! I've been showing around a 7:15 2K right now but for you to have all of those intervals where you are now is impressive. I would think you're closer to 7:00 than you think.

Gordon - Great work on the intervals - that's how it's done.

Nick - Just regroup from that interval session and find a better pacing strategy next time.

Joe / Dean - the meters you guys do at the paces you do are incredibly impressive.

Lindsay - Getting a new HRM is pathetically exciting to us - what's that say about us! I need to wear mine (it was acting up) or buy a new one myself.

As for the low carb rowing - I'm lower carb too. My wife has fibromyalgia and all kinds of inflammation and her docs recommend low sugar in our diets. We have a small amount of organic sugar at home but never use it. I'm actually working on timing my carbs (from natural sources) better for my rows. On SS days, you can do very low carbs. On days where you lift or do interval work, I find a small amount of carbs before and after the workouts beneficial. Usually a banana or piece of fruit before and then I put a half of a banana in my vegan protein drink after a row (or just have leftovers which usually include brown rice or something similar). It doesn't have to be all or none on carbs. I eat 50% fat, 25% protein, 25% carbs most days and I think my metabolism is pretty solid now as a result. As a former heavy guy (I used to weigh 240 / 108 kg), I know carbs were most of my problem before. I lost 70 lbs (32 kg) originally and gradually put 10 lbs back on in muscle after lifting four years. I'd never go back to a carb heavy diet again (and couldn't with my wife's health, which has significantly improved as a result of eliminating dairy, gluten and nearly all processed foods and sugar). I'm not in ketosis and personally I don't think you have to be to be a more efficient "fat burner" for energy. I do a lot of IF (intermittent fasting) many days -- once you get used to it, I had no problem on SS days doing this and using my fat for fuel.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

Mike maybe you didn't catch up on the whole thread but going to do waaaay better on that than me - apologies folks for all I've missed!

So one thing that I notice happened while I was away was this thread went past the 'Pete Plan Autumn 2015' thread in terms of total replies - so it's now the biggest 'Pete Plan' thread on the board! (Someone may have already pointed that out I guess.) From the very brief skim I've been able to do looks like we've Dean had to ease off a bit, and Glenn I did see your waterfall result - that looked really strong, and obviously quicker than required to go sub 19 - you've got that in you for sure. Luke looks like you've recovered from your ailment (nice 4x2k - it's my least favourite) but Mike sorry to hear you're still unwell - hope you get better soon.

I did zero exercise form Saturday to yesterday - but super keen to get back into it now I'm back home! 10k today at 2:12.0 - HR was at the higher end for my SS rows, but haven't had good sleep the last couple of nights and did have a few beers last night so not too concerned.



So I'm defo up for a couple more cycles of PP now I reckon - think I'll do 8k SS tomorrow then hit up the 8x500 on Saturday as 3.1.1 - if I did two more cycles that would get me to within a couple of weeks of the first of two races I've signed up for, so that seems like a good point to reassess based on how I'm feeling at that stage and what other folks are doing, and will ensure I get a good amount of volume into me over the next 6 weeks.

[jackarabit]

What the thread lacks as a gym it makes up as a locutory! Reading what some might or might not do this week is in itself a bit of a chore. To add to the overburden, I should do the third week descending distance as I have yet to execute by the book. I could redo the CTC and attempt to get two yards on another old wrinkly so I have the twelve points and he none--the lowball option! Hard distance 30' and hope to hit my head on a low-hanging PB? Another slice off the SS loaf? Doing nothing at all begins to look attractive.

More (or less) of this later. Kudos to all who made steady progress this week and to the few who made superhuman efforts.

[bisqeet]

a 30min PB/SB would be nice.
I did a R24 30' piece for the CTC with just a bit over the 8k (8031).
theoretically i should be able to do a free rate better than the 8155 or so I have at R27/28....
theoretically....

[mudgeg]

PP Beginners Week 5 Day 3

7000m row - second of the week. Target 2:12.8

Actual: 2:11.8, so pretty pleased to have just beaten my pace for the first 7k of the week.

@mininick - read your post and feel for you. I felt the same last week, two awful sessions. Just keep going, I am new to this game and probably the last person you'd look to for advice but a lot of it is mentally toughing it out I think.

[Goldenbarry]

PP Beginners Week 5 Day 3

7000m row - second of the week. Target 2:12.8

Actual: 2:11.8, so pretty pleased to have just beaten my pace for the first 7k of the week.

@mininick - read your post and feel for you. I felt the same last week, two awful sessions. Just keep going, I am new to this game and probably the last person you'd look to for advice but a lot of it is mentally toughing it out I think.

Well done Gordon. I was curious how you'd do on this one. Did you decide on holding at an even 2:12 or building throughout the piece? Were you spent at the finish or comfortable?

Previous to PPB I would just sit down and row for some distance or time. Now I am getting a lot more out of the workouts by having a plan. Although on the interval sessions invariably I end up reflecting on the wise words of the great philosopher Mike Tyson, "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth. Then I'll find out how tough they are."

[mudgeg]

Thanks Barry. The erg at my gym only has a PM2 believe it or not, so I don't get 500 splits just the running average. I held that at about 2:13.5 and put on a little sprint in the last 500m or so. At the end I was OK, I wouldn't say comfortable but could I have done another 500m? Probably yes. In fact definitely yes,

I surprised myself really because I felt dreadful after the 3 x 1000m intervals last week and performed really badly in the second 6k piece.

Like a lot of people, before the plan I just rowed a lot and logged a lot of km. When I look back in my log, the pace of those rows was awful and it was all up and down, no consistency and no progress. Like you I am getting a lot more out of rowing by following this plan. However, as you (and Tyson) rightly say, the intervals sort the men from the boys and I still find myself firmly in the latter category in comparison with a lot of guys on this thread on the full PP.