opposite training -- training oppositely and contrarily

[johnlvs2run]

What training have you done that is opposite or contrary to conventional mores, schedules, and or ways of doing things.

This doesn't need to be confined to rowing and can be related to anything.

I'll start:

- - - - - -

Instead of warming up with "heavy 10's", I've started warming up by tossing in bursts of "light 20's", i.e. 20 strokes in 20 seconds where I'm rowing lightly and quickly at 60 spm. This is very cool and I like it plus so far it is giving me a better warm up than before.

[Yukon John]

Instead of warming up with "heavy 10's", I've started warming up by tossing in bursts of "light 20's", i.e. 20 strokes in 20 seconds where I'm rowing lightly and quickly at 60 spm. This is very cool and I like it plus so far it is giving me a better warm up than before.

This sounds similar to some running workouts where you're trying to get the legs light and fast.

There was something that I used to do occasionally when running called "retros." It was basically running backwards. A bit tricky since it was hard to see where you were going . I believe that the premise for doing this was to have the muscles that usually do eccentric contractions switch to concentric and vice versa. This was supposed to help strengthen the muscles and balance strength. I'm not sure how effective it was, but it did give you one more thing to do when out on the trails.

[Jim Barry]

A few years back, I did not have time to train in the conventional way so I just rowed 3 all-out 5k's every week for about 8 weeks. I moved from 19:40 to 18:56. It was very hard mentally but only took an hour of commitment. I came within a few seconds of my 5k best training on a quarter the volume. In some sense, I followed all the rules in terms of keeping it intense and specific. I recovered well between sessions and ate well. It was some of the most difficult training I've ever done.

My other unconventional training experiment was just running long runs (70 to 100 minutes on-road and/or off-road) on Saturdays and Sundays and rowing somewhat intensely mid week (2 -3 times). This totally overhauled my running, much to my surprise.

For egg and spoon racing as a kid I used to not train at all! (similarly sack racing). Results were mixed.

[Yukon John]

This thread is a good idea John. It got me thinking about a program I heard on a Canadian Radio show called "Quirks and Quarks". It talked about a training plan of just 6 minutes / week. Now from what I could gather they didn't talk about doing a warm up or cool down, which seemed a bit iffy to me. But from what I remember, three times / week the test subjects road as fast as they could for 30 seconds on an exercise bike and did that 4 times = 2 minutes per training session and they had some pretty amazing gains in fitness. I did a quick search and I believe this link might be the research they were talking about. http://edition.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/06/0 ... .training/

I don't think I'm quite ready for this program, I don't know if I could handle the time .

[johnlvs2run]

This thread is a good idea John.

Thanks John.

I've started warming up by tossing in bursts of "light 20's", i.e. 20 strokes in 20 seconds where I'm rowing lightly and quickly at 60 spm. This is very cool and I like it plus so far it is giving me a better warm up than before.

I did this warm up yesterday morning again and it went very well.

The warm up consists of 20 minutes continuously as follows, and/or any variations of this:

5x 20s at 60spm (20 strokes), paddling 40s slowly between each
5:00 steady/relaxed

5x 20s at 60spm (20 strokes), paddling 40s slowly between each
5:00 steady/relaxed

For example, yesterday I first set the monitor to "just row" and set the splits to 20s. It is not necessarly to set the splits but I do it for curiousity purposes. Then I started immediately with 20 strokes in 20 seconds (60 spm), paddled slowly 40s, and repeated this 5 times in total. The faster bursts started at 1:53 pace for the first one and averaged around 1:47 for the 5 of them, slowly down to a 2:24 pace by the end of each one. The 40s paddling was around 3:00 pace or so.

Then I continued on averaging the same 2:24 pace for another 5:00 minutes. At this point I could have taken a short break for a drink but continued on, repeating the first and second 5 minute sequences. This time I averaged 1:39.4 pace for the 5x 20s bursts at 60 spm, so the 40s paddling was slower, around 3:10 pace or so, again easing off to a 2:24 pace at each minute. Then I continued on for another 5 minutes at the same overall 2:24 pace.

[johnlvs2run]

I wasn't exactly 2:24 pace at each minute but that's what I aimed for, with the intention of giving myself enough recovery between bursts.

At first I was doing 5 strokes each 5 seconds for the 20s, then it dawned on me that 1 stroke per second was the same which makes this even easier to keep track of. I just take one stroke every second.

Then the 40s' between are very easy and the rating doesn't matter as long as it's easy.

These warm me up so well that I get going a bit faster than intended and maybe that's also because I keep track of the time for the bursts. It might be better to not do that, or else to have them modulated in a step down fashion. Regardless, this works very well for me.

I've not seen anyone do anything like this before, so I'm calling it "the JR warm up routine".

[tgeldean]

While I've had an erg for several years, I've rowed off and on. I've just recently gotten more serious about it. I guess my contribution is what I DON'T do - I don't do any lower rate rowing.

I'm not against it - I just don't know much about it, and when I've just played around even at 24 spm or so, it feels uncomfortable. I haven't read enough to understand the benefits of it, so for now I've continued to just row at the spm that feels comfortable for the pace that I'm rowing (generally 30 - 40 spm depending on the workout/time trial).

I'm primarily a runner, but I'm excited about the possibilities for improvement in indoor rowing. I would describe myself as a lightweight temporarily stuck in a heavyweight frame (currently 178#). Any suggestions are welcome. I anticipate the recommendation for integrating lower spm work, but I would like to understand the how and why of it.

Thanks,

[hjs]

While I've had an erg for several years, I've rowed off and on. I've just recently gotten more serious about it. I guess my contribution is what I DON'T do - I don't do any lower rate rowing.

I'm not against it - I just don't know much about it, and when I've just played around even at 24 spm or so, it feels uncomfortable. I haven't read enough to understand the benefits of it, so for now I've continued to just row at the spm that feels comfortable for the pace that I'm rowing (generally 30 - 40 spm depending on the workout/time trial).

I'm primarily a runner, but I'm excited about the possibilities for improvement in indoor rowing. I would describe myself as a lightweight temporarily stuck in a heavyweight frame (currently 178#). Any suggestions are welcome. I anticipate the recommendation for integrating lower spm work, but I would like to understand the how and why of it.

Thanks,

Hoi,

Looking at your results (very nice indeed) you can see that you lak power and speed. I can be that you don,t train that but if you could improve on that you would become faster overall. (on the erg, not your running)

The purpuse off low rate training is to improve/better the power per stroke. If you rate high on longer pieces you don't use much force per stroke but the high rating makes up for it.
Lowering the rate and keeping the pace the same makes the power per stroke high. If you can hold this power when you increase the rate your times will improve.
I personally don,t think that you need to that much training at lower rates but on longer pieces you could come down at bit.
A good way off learning this would be rowing strapless. Most people who rate very high use a short stroke, instead off making a total long stroke they tend to avoid the last bit and start the recovery before the have finished the stroke.

Are you long distance runner? I think you are. What age, height are you?

Ps John R will tell you that you never should row at low rates

[tgeldean]

hjs-

Thanks for the reply and clear explanation. I appreciate that you kept it simple, and I'm glad to see your suggestion that I may not need to do a large amount of lower rate rowing to be more successful.

It's obvious that my current strength in rowing comes primarily from my endurance, and that I need to train my weakness (which is strength) to see significant improvement over 2000m. If the primary competitive distances were 5000m and up, I could probably get away from very little strength work.

I plan to start incorporating some lower rate rowing into my easier and longer workouts, and I will experiment with strapless rowing as well.

I also have yet to make a concerted effort to include a LOT of race pace (or faster) work. Since I picked up rowing again (February 1st), I've done a total of 12 workouts at/below race pace, and many of those workouts were really time trial pieces of 2K, 1K, 4:00, etc. I've done very little actual interval workouts.

My return to rowing was more of a means to an end, as a running injury had knocked me out for awhile. Rowing took me off my feet, and I focused on longer rows and a lot of work at or around lactate threshold in order to get the best bang for my cross training buck. I'm back running again, and doing an OK job of balancing the 2 disciplines. Last week, I put in 66.5 miles of running and 60K of rowing.

So yes, I'm a long distance runner. Last year I ran races varying between 1 mile and 50K, on trails, roads, indoor & outdoor track and cross country.

I'm 6'3", and I'll be 37 in a week.

Again, thanks for your help. I have a 50K trail race that I'm gearing up for at the end of April, and I'd also like to make a few more improvements on my performances/rankings by the end of the ranking year as well. So after April I hope to settle into a new, more balanced routine with my rowing.

Tim Geldean

[hjs]

I have a 50K trail race that I'm gearing up for at the end of April, and I'd also like to make a few more improvements on my performances/rankings by the end of the ranking year as well. So after April I hope to settle into a new, more balanced routine with my rowing.

Tim Geldean

Good Luck Tim with your 50 K this month. I am sure you will do a fine job.
About the rowing, to be come stronger/faster you can use methods used in track and field. This is what I have done in the past. My backgrounds is also track and F. Although not long distance running, more the field events.

Henry.

[ancho]

...
There was something that I used to do occasionally when running called "retros." It was basically running backwards. A bit tricky since it was hard to see where you were going .
...

There is a guy who each year runs the Maratón de San Sebastián backwards . Las year I overtook him about km 20 (I was running forward! )

I like to prepare for running races (usually 10k, but also Marathon or HM) running as less as possible.

Ah, and thanx for the "6-minute"-link. maybe we are doing something wrong

[johnlvs2run]

I've been rowing only 10 minutes each morning through the summer, most always at 2:24 pace, 8 meters per stroke and 65 for the drag factor.

A couple mornings ago I did some short sprints, and got the split down to 1:33, plus a 1:35.8 average for 10 seconds.

The next day I put the df up to 88 and clicked a 1:31, plus 1:32.3 average for 10 seconds.

The opposite training has been from training slowly all summer, yet I'm still able to get the split close to what I was doing before.

This is a pleasant surprise.