Legendary Abs

[[old] Yukon John]

I'm curious what (if any) has worked for people in terms of building abs. I thought I'd throw on the website below. It's a workout routine that doesn't take much time and I've had very good results with. I haven't been doing it to much lately but I think it might be good insurance for protecting my back(?), along with lots of stretching. <a href='http://www.eyehike.com/pub/Exercise/Leg ... isited.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www.eyehike.com/pub/Exercise/Leg ... pdf</a><br /><br />One exercise that I wouldn't do as part of this is the one for the spinal erectors. Rowing seems to use these a lot and I think it might be overkill.<br /><br />I'd like to put out the question too, do people think working on abs can be beneficial for performance and / or staying healthy?

[[old] csabour]

nice piece of information you got there! i saved it to my hard drive.<br /><br />the spinal erectors are for the purpose of working the antagonistic muscles. similar with the relationship of chest/lats, one must work out not only the rowing specific muscle, but the muscle which does the opposite motion. just like your quads kick off the footstops and ham strings pull you up the slide. work both musclee groups even though the quads are really the beneficial muscles. its just a balancing act as the guide said.<br /><br /><br />the only real usefulness (if you ask me) is that perhaps you can lean back farther and longer during your erg test. by doing that you are increasing the length of your stroke. <br />

[[old] neilb]

Not sure about abs but certainly work on the core muscles will be beneficial. This will help maintain good upright posture. (For example whn starting the recovery helping to bring the body "up and over" the hips and just before starting the drive ensuring that body i.e. back stabilised and can be held in correct position during the leg drive.)<br /><br />As regards exercises for this I tend to use pilates most days (also helps lengthen muscles after rowing) and swiss ball.<br /><br />Neil

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Yukon John+Dec 27 2005, 06:49 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Yukon John @ Dec 27 2005, 06:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd like to put out the question too, do people think working on abs can be beneficial for performance and / or staying healthy? </td></tr></table><br />Thanks much for posting this link.<br /><br />Yes I think these can help greatly with ones rowing.<br /><br />Take a look at all the ab work Rich does and his great results.<br /><br />The primary reason for this, I think, is the great importance of the recovery portion of the stroke. <br /><br />A strong core makes a huge difference here.<br />

[[old] H_2O]

<!--QuoteBegin-Yukon John+Dec 27 2005, 09:49 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Yukon John @ Dec 27 2005, 09:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm curious what (if any) has worked for people in terms of building abs... </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks for the info. I saved it also.<br />I think the core is very important.<br />If I neglect it I have back problems right away.<br />

[[old] DIESEL]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 30 2005, 11:38 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 30 2005, 11:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /><br />Take a look at all the ab work Rich does and his great results.<br /><br />The primary reason for this, I think, is the great importance of the recovery portion of the stroke.  <br /><br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />the ab work Ranger performs does not determine his erg performance - the insane amount of volume he logs on the erg is the main factor. all that other stuff he does is IMHO superflous overtraining and if he eliminated it, I theorize he'd be even faster on the erg. But that's just me. I doubt he'd give that experiment a go. <br /><br />doing millions of crunches is a waste of time and way, way past the point of diminishing returns. "Abs" come from a combination of diet and exercise. If you are not lean enough, YOU WILL NEVER SEE YOUR ABS. I don't understand that logic. Do you do millions of reps of biceps or chest or back - what makes the abs so different? If that is the case then why are you not doing millions of reps for the erectors as well? <br /><br />If you are doing a supplementary weight training program focusing on the basic compound lifts like benching, squats, military presses and cleans, your core is getting a h*** of a workout and you don't really need extra ab work, especially ifyou're erging - every stroke is like doing a crunch. <br /><br />but if you insist on doing ab work - crunches are crap - you are much better served doing hanging pikes off a pull up bar and high incline sit ups - very time efficient and much more effective. <br /><br />D<br /><br />

[[old] DIESEL]

exercise description. <br /><br />hanging pike - <br /><br />hang on a bar as if you were about to do a pull up. Then with straightened legs try to make them touch the bar all the while trying to keep your upper body as steady as possible. Think of the Rocky training sequence in Rocky IV when he's in Siberia - he did these - except upside down. (his legs were attached to the bar and he brought his upper body up) Anyway, ten of these will pretty much wreck you. Your entire core will be on fire. <br /><br />high incline sit up <br /><br />go to the incline board and put it on the highest plane. Hook your legs into the holder and then cross your arms across your chest. Bring your upper body up towards your legs. Hold that position at the top for 2 seconds. Then come down SLOWLY. However, don't let your back come to rest against the incline board - at the bottom, hold that for 1-2 seconds and repeat. Again, ten of these will pretty much wreck you. <br /><br />For either of these rest about 30secs - 1 min between sets and do about 5 sets - you'll be walking funny the next day, and erging with sore abs will be quite a novel experience. <br /><br />D

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Jan 13 2006, 09:52 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jan 13 2006, 09:52 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the ab work Ranger performs does not determine his erg performance - the insane amount of volume he logs on the erg is the main factor.  all that other stuff he does is IMHO superflous overtraining and if he eliminated it, I theorize he'd be even faster on the erg. </td></tr></table><br />Have you followed his routine of sit ups and V ups for 6 months to a year?<br /><br />What is your erg time and what weight class and age are you?<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->doing millions of crunches is a waste of time and way, way past the point of diminishing returns.  </td></tr></table><br />Even if that were true, what does it have to do with sit ups, V ups, jumping rope and the other things Rich does in his program?<br /><br />Have you done all these things that Rich does?<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you do millions of reps of biceps or chest or back - what makes the abs so different?  If that is the case then why are you not doing millions of reps for the erectors as well?  </td></tr></table><br />The abs are in your core.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you don't really need extra ab work, especially ifyou're erging - every stroke is like doing a crunch. </td></tr></table><br />You can do V ups for 2 hours without stopping then? Or 6 minutes?<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you are much better served doing hanging pikes off a pull up bar </td></tr></table><br />How long do you do these each morning?<br />

[[old] DIESEL]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 13 2006, 03:54 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 13 2006, 03:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Jan 13 2006, 09:52 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jan 13 2006, 09:52 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the ab work Ranger performs does not determine his erg performance - the insane amount of volume he logs on the erg is the main factor.  all that other stuff he does is IMHO superflous overtraining and if he eliminated it, I theorize he'd be even faster on the erg. </td></tr></table><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have you followed his routine of sit ups and V ups for 6 months to a year? </td></tr></table> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No. Nor do I want to. It's ludicrous. If he can give me a scientific explanation for why it would help his erg score, I'm all ears. His training is unorthodox, to be sure, and he gets results, so I'm not arguing that - but I wonder how much better he could be if he dropped some of the superflous stuff he does - he truly is a physiological freak. I hope Ranger doesn't take my criticisms as an attack, but I think it would make a neat experiment. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What is your erg time and what weight class and age are you? </td></tr></table><br /><br />My erg scores have nothing to do with this. But let's just say that I don't log as many meters as Ranger. let's also say that in a past life I have gone sub 6:15 as 20-ish HW. <br /><br />But to take your point away, if you took a guy with Ranger's exact stats and had them perform Ranger's exact routine - they wouldn't even come close to his times. Face it, John, Ranger is a unique athlete. What is working for him, will probably not work for others. <br /><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even if that were true, what does it have to do with sit ups, V ups, jumping rope and the other things Rich does in his program? </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm not saying that any of those things he does are wrong. What I am saying is that the volume is excessive. I have no idea why he has to do 2 hours of V ups or skipping rope to jump on an erg. There is no sound basis for that way of thinking, other than because Ranger thinks it helps him erg better. Therefore, it's ludicrous to recommend that kind of training to another athlete. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have you done all these things that Rich does? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Why would I? I do incline sit-ups, V-ups, hanging pikes, and I have even skipped rope now and again - but why would I want to do it for 2 HOURS?? <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-ME+--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ME)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->  : Do you do millions of reps of biceps or chest or back - what makes the abs so different?  If that is the case then why are you not doing millions of reps for the erectors as well?  </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-John+--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The abs are in your core. </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's not my point. The abs are a group of muscles, like any other, therefore they react to the same kind of stimulus. Again, there is no need to do a 1,000 reps for chest in a single workout, just as there is no need to do 1,000 reps for situps - if you can do 1,000 situps in a single workout, you are obviously not taxing your abs enough and you have find something to make the movement more difficult. It's just wasted energy - like a demented form of cardio - time which could be better spent rowing the erg - if that is what Ranger is training for. <br /><br />Basically - that would be my experiment. My thesis: Ranger could probably get the same erg scores without the extra situps and rope skipping. In short, I theorize his justifications are all in his head. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can do V ups for 2 hours without stopping then?  Or 6 minutes? </td></tr></table><br /><br />read my other replies, now we're going in circles. I'd use a dumbbell to make the movement harder.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you are much better served doing hanging pikes off a pull up bar </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't do much direct ab work anymore - maybe 2x week. it really did not impact my core positively or negatively - I found that my core got very strong from rowing and weightlifting rather than direct ab work, per se - seriously try doing a set of heavy deadlifts or squats without a belt, or do some weighted pull-ups with a dumbbell between your legs and your abs and lower back get quite a workout.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Jan 13 2006, 01:30 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jan 13 2006, 01:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->His training is unorthodox, to be sure, and he gets results, so I'm not arguing that </td></tr></table><br />Well then that's all that matters isn't it.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but I wonder how much better he could be if he dropped some of the superflous stuff he does </td></tr></table><br />Maybe if he drove a bus, instead of exercising? Yes that's a good question.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you took a guy with Ranger's exact stats and had them perform Ranger's exact routine - they wouldn't even come close to his times. </td></tr></table><br />Well let's see. Rich has Ranger's exact stats. He performs Ranger's exact routine.<br /><br />And has Ranger's exact times! Why would it be any different?<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ranger is a unique athlete.  What is working for him, will probably not work for others. </td></tr></table><br />Oh I think it would and it does. The exception proves the rule.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What I am saying is that the volume is excessive. </td></tr></table><br />How do you know?<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have no idea why he has to do 2 hours of V ups or skipping rope to jump on an erg.  </td></tr></table><br />But you haven't does these things, even once for 2 hours. Have you?!<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is no sound basis for that way of thinking, other than because Ranger thinks it helps him erg better.  Therefore, it's ludicrous to recommend that kind of training to another athlete. </td></tr></table><br />A good way to find out would be to follow his program for 6 months to a year and then see how it's been working for you.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you can do 1,000 situps in a single workout, you are obviously not taxing your abs enough </td></tr></table><br />Should he do more of them then?<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd use a dumbbell to make the movement harder. </td></tr></table><br />Do you put the dumbbell on your tummy?<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't do much direct ab work anymore - maybe 2x week.  it really did not impact my core positively or negatively </td></tr></table><br />Okay but have you done them every day, 2 hours a day, for 6 months?

[[old] DIESEL]

<br />

His training is unorthodox, to be sure, and he gets results, so I'm not arguing that

<br />

Well then that's all that matters isn't it.

<br /><br />To Ranger, yes. To the rest of us, not necessarily, and that's the point. <br /><br />

but I wonder how much better he could be if he dropped some of the superflous stuff he does

<br />

Maybe if he drove a bus, instead of exercising? Yes that's a good question.

<br /><br />no, how about if he rested even more? <br /><br />

if you took a guy with Ranger's exact stats and had them perform Ranger's exact routine - they wouldn't even come close to his times.

<br />

Well let's see. Rich has Ranger's exact stats. He performs Ranger's exact routine.<br /><br />And has Ranger's exact times! Why would it be any different?

<br /><br />no wonder people make fun of you. <br /><br />by stats - I mean age, weight, height, training background <br /><br />

Ranger is a unique athlete. What is working for him, will probably not work for others.

<br />

Oh I think it would and it does. The exception proves the rule.

<br /><br />it most certainly does not. I can do the Xeno Muller Olympic workout and it'll probably kill me. Why? It was designed for him, and him alone. I, as an individual would need to have a program designed for my unique physiology. <br /><br />If I were to follow Ranger's routine - it may work or it may not work - but based on my experience and what I've read on the how body operates - it's a recipe for overtraining. <br /><br />

What I am saying is that the volume is excessive.

<br />

How do you know?

<br /><br />let's just say it's a very educated guess. I for one don't want to look like a POW camp survivor, so let's just say for a HW who wants to stay a HW, it's a bit much. <br /><br />

I have no idea why he has to do 2 hours of V ups or skipping rope to jump on an erg.

<br />

But you haven't does these things, even once for 2 hours. Have you?!

<br /><br />like I said, No. Because it's absolutely pointless. <br /><br />

There is no sound basis for that way of thinking, other than because Ranger thinks it helps him erg better. Therefore, it's ludicrous to recommend that kind of training to another athlete.

<br />

A good way to find out would be to follow his program for 6 months to a year and then see how it's been working for you.

<br /><br />I have no interest in following his routine. I know myself and have enough feedback on my training to know it's not going to work for me. Like I said, Ranger is unique. <br /><br />

if you can do 1,000 situps in a single workout, you are obviously not taxing your abs enough

<br />

Should he do more of them then?

<br /><br />no, do things to make it harder. He could make them weighted, or he could do isometric holds (5 secs or so) at the top and bottom of the movement to fatigue the muscle. <br /><br />

I'd use a dumbbell to make the movement harder.

<br />

Do you put the dumbbell on your tummy?

<br /><br />depends on the exercise. hold it across your chest or hold it between your feet. <br /><br />

I don't do much direct ab work anymore - maybe 2x week. it really did not impact my core positively or negatively

<br />

Okay but have you done them every day, 2 hours a day, for 6 months?

<br /><br />LOL! No.. for the reasons I outlined above. <br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Jan 13 2006, 02:21 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jan 13 2006, 02:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->by stats - I mean age, weight, height, training background </td></tr></table><br />That's what I mean too.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can do the Xeno Muller Olympic workout and it'll probably kill me.  Why?  It was designed for him, and him alone.  I, as an individual would need to have a program designed for my unique physiology. </td></tr></table><br />I think Xeno's program is very easy. Maybe you're not in very good shape. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I were to follow Ranger's routine - it may work or it may not work - but based on my experience and what I've read on the how body operates - it's a recipe for overtraining. </td></tr></table><br />But you've never tried it, nor done it for any length of time.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->let's just say for a HW who wants to stay a HW,  it's a bit much. </td></tr></table><br />Right, if you don't want to lose weight or get more fit then don't do it. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But you haven't does these things, even once for 2 hours.  Have you?! </td></tr></table><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->like I said, No. Because it's absolutely pointless. </td></tr></table><br />You don't know this though, as you've never tried them or done them.<br /><br />So maybe they are pointfull, rather than pointless? <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you can do 1,000 situps in a single workout, you are obviously not taxing your abs enough </td></tr></table><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Should he do more of them then? </td></tr></table><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->no, do things to make it harder.  He could make them weighted, or he could do isometric holds (5 secs or so) at the top and bottom of the movement to fatigue the muscle. </td></tr></table><br />So you're saying that doing 1000 situps is not hard enough then.<br /><br />Thank you for clarifying.

[[old] DIESEL]

your word play games pretty much confirms the fact that you have nothing else to say and are just needling me to prolong the discussion. No Thanks. I've said my piece. <br /><br />Again, no wonder people make so much fun of you on this board. <br /><br />BTW, Xeno's Olympic Workout is not what he puts on his DVD - I mean his actual workouts in preparation for his olympic campaigns. A big difference. Do you realize you just chumped an Olympic champion? That's quite an insult. <br /><br />The balls on this guy... wow. <br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Xeno doesn't have any 2k records on the erg.<br /><br />Rich has broken the world record 3 times.<br /><br />So I think he knows much better about sit ups and V ups than you do.

[[old] Yukon John]

I think you guys are going a bit off topic here ? I started this thread hoping it would get some discussion going about ways of strengthening the core muscles. From what most people say, this can help decrease the chance of injury both in rowing and otherwise. Diesel, I've done this program up through level 8 and the hole way through it never takes more then ~6 minutes, so I don't think it is excessive. The hanging pike is one of the exercises once you get to the more advanced levels. I'd be careful with th high incline sit-ups. Yes they do work the abs, but what they work even more so is the psoas (sp?) muscles. Which could be counter productive and cause some inbalance if overdone. On your Topic of Ranger, he sounds like he likes to work out a lot and has found what works for himself. I question whether we should question what anyone else does for their exercise (unless they are doing something improperly and risk injury.) If we just focus on our own training and share with others anything we learn, I think we would all benefit and people can choose whether or not that idea would work for them and if it was something they want to use. Speaking of sharing ideas, I've posted a few tid-bits about pliometric exercises in the Eh Team thread yesterday. Feel free to check it out if you haven't already done so, and comments would be appreciated, but lets keep it on a positive note, eh ?