New erger. Advice wanted! :-) Pete Plan?

[Citroen]

3. I found it hugely useful to go and get myself a heart rate monitor. I got a polar watch gizmo. By doing this and using the definitions of training bands from the UK concept 2 site (AN, AT, UT1, UT2), I was able to get a better understanding of just how hard to push during different sessions, and I could change pace before I blew a gasket and needed to stop. The key thing that it taught me was that I needn't kill myself in every workout in order to make progress.

There's a spreadsheet to calculate those bands at http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7631

[unladen_swallow]

5500m in 38min is a 3:27.2 pace (time to complete 500m). That means you're doing no work, so unless you're an eighty year old, 5'2" tall, lightweight (<135lb) lady there's lots of room for improvement.

I agree that Citroen went too far in that one. (It caught me by surprise. It seemed out of character.) But don't let that stop you from checking out the references that were provided in that same message. They are definitely valuable sources.

I had indeed ignored the references because I assumed he was just linking me to look at some youtube video of a little old lady just to be cruel.

Thanks for your references, I'll definitely check those.

[unladen_swallow]

Hi,

I thought I'd chime in. I want to try to answer a couple of your questions and maybe give you a little advice. I'm pretty new at this as well. I've been at it for a year. I started rowing on the erg to lose weight. I was pretty confused when I started and had trouble figuring out how "good" I was at it. By using the forum and trying different stuff, I got a lot more comfortable and improved quickly. I also hit my weight loss goals over about 6 months and I'm now much more focused on just going faster.

Hey Greg, thank you SO much for all the time and thought you put into this, it was all very useful and encouraging. Much, much appreciated!!!

[unladen_swallow]

OK, so today on Pete Lite (the beginner's edition) I was to do 4x750 with 2 minute breaks. I really wanted to know what my times would be today for a 500 and a 1000, so I decided to do one of each and then two 750.

500: 2:25.4
1000: 5:05.9
750: 4:20.7
750: 3:58

The big lesson I learned today is that SPM does NOT translate into a faster time. Which I previously thought it did. I figured that if I was working fast, I was GOING fast, and thought that was as fast a speed as I could get if I was moving as fast as I could. Which turns out to be kind of radically false. I was so wiped out by my last 750 that I went slower - and pushed harder on my drive to try to compensate. That I ended up shaving :22.7 seconds (a lot of time, amirite) off my last time was a revelation. I've been working my ass off and turning myself purple and, like as not, doing significantly worse than I'd do if I went slower and more deliberately (pushing harder).

I am looking forward to doing the 5500 again using the advice that I've gotten this week and learning from this duh-ah-ha! moment today. I'll do the 500 and 1000 over again on Sunday and expect to see improvements there too. Yay!

I like in some ways the "just show up" and "don't train with a program" ideas, but I'm afraid they appeal more to my lackadaisacal side than my get-er-done side. I really do better when I have goals and milestones and something to measure against for improvements. I find improvement and competing with myself to get better very motivating. Plus I'd like to go to the KS Indoor Rowing Championships in February and maybe not come in dead last in my division. As a medium-term goal.

[Bob S.]

I had indeed ignored the references because I assumed he was just linking me to look at some youtube video of a little old lady just to be cruel.

Thanks for your references, I'll definitely check those.

Phew! I am glad that you got past that point. A good technique video is essential. I see from your later post that you learned one of the big points, the fact that high rate (i.e. high SPM) does not translate directly to fast erg time. That was the second error that I had on that list in my message - avoiding unnecessarily high stroke rates.

In that message, I deliberately avoided recommending specific drag factor settings and stroke rates, because these are highly individual and can vary with the kind of piece that is being done. Drag factor choices range from 100 to 150 for most rowers, although some will use a higher drag for very short pieces, like 100-500m. Note also that it is essential to check out the actual drag factor and not go by the damper setting. The drag factor does, indeed, depend on the damper setting, but it also varies with the temperature and air pressure (especially at altitude) and can be drastically low in a machine that is dust-clogged.

As far as the stroke rates are concerned, my own personal rate ranges from 12 to over 40, depending on what sort of piece I am doing. In my middle years, I was 6'1" (down to 5'10 1/2" now, what with kyphosis, osteoporosis, flattening of the spinal disks, and loss of cartilage) and I have relatively long arms and legs for my height. If I were shorter and/or had shorter limbs, I would probably have a somewhat higher preferred range of stroke rates. The rate of 12 is for just sort of loosening up in the early morning or at the beginning of a warm up and for cool downs after a fairly intense workout. My warm ups start at 12 and I work up to 24 or more depending on the work out to follow. I do long steady state pieces and the very long (60', half marathon, and marathon) ranked pieces at 20. I use 24 for the middle ranked pieces - 5k, 6k, and 30'. For a 2k, I generally stay around 30 for the bulk of the piece but jack it up in the last 500m. For a 500m, I probably stay in the high 30s or even into the 40s. I didn't check my records, so these are just the approximate values that I remember.

Bob S.

[unladen_swallow]

3. I found it hugely useful to go and get myself a heart rate monitor. I got a polar watch gizmo. By doing this and using the definitions of training bands from the UK concept 2 site (AN, AT, UT1, UT2), I was able to get a better understanding of just how hard to push during different sessions, and I could change pace before I blew a gasket and needed to stop. The key thing that it taught me was that I needn't kill myself in every workout in order to make progress.

Hi again - I sat down to check out the material regarding training bands and found the Concept2 Interactive Weight Loss Programme using the bands (http://concept2.co.uk/weightloss/interactive). Do you think that this would work better for me than the Pete Plan for now? They are very different but I think it looks pretty good. I like the underlying theory. Perhaps I should do as you did and focus on weight loss for the next while, and work on speed once I'm more fit and my endurance is better.

[Bob S.]

Hi again - I sat down to check out the material regarding training bands and found the Concept2 Interactive Weight Loss Programme using the bands (http://concept2.co.uk/weightloss/interactive). Do you think that this would work better for me than the Pete Plan for now? They are very different but I think it looks pretty good. I like the underlying theory. Perhaps I should do as you did and focus on weight loss for the next while, and work on speed once I'm more fit and my endurance is better.

It sounds good to me. I have to admit that I am not familiar with the UK C2 weight loss program and I haven't used the beginners' Pete Plan program. However in two different seasons, I used the regular UK Interactive Programme (IP) for about 4 months and followed it with a few weeks on a simplified version of the regular Pete Plan (PP). Both times I was quite pleased with the results. The IP served as an excellent vehicle for working on conditioning through the fall and early winter and the PP was good preparation for the racing season in late January and early February.

Bob S.

[jamesg]

goals and milestones

Milestones come one after the other, in a certain order. The first, in rowing, is learn how. The second is do it, using any plan that suits your available time. Admittedly rowing well is very hard work, but there's no alternative, trying to cut corners will get you nowhere.

You will have learnt how when the stroke is long and fast against low drag, and the recovery slow with the right sequence: arms, swing, slide, because this sequence puts you into the right posture for a fast catch and a solid stroke with force from beginning to end. This type of stroke will kill you within a minute if the rating is too high, so keep it down.

Such strokes give you speed and make you work; only work trains you to maintain speed for the distance.

[gregsmith01748]

Hi,

I haven't used the interactive weight loss program, but I did follow the 2K training program for a couple of months. I found it to be a useful tool and I learned a lot about erging while following it. One thing that I learned is that I prefer rowing distances instead of times. The UK plans tend to use a lot of workouts like 5x8' AT, which is time based intervals. I'm sure other folks are different, but I like the idea that the faster I row, the sooner I'm done. Just a personal preference I guess.

You can pick any program that seems to work for you. The key will be how many calories you burn each week. 3500 calories per pound of weight loss.

Based on your background in competitive sports, I thought you might be motivated by more training for speed, rather than just burning calories. The important thing is finding the right thing that let's you sustain a commitment. It took me 8 or 9 months to lock into the using the wolverine plan, and if I had tried it sooner, I probably would have quit in disgust.

You've made some really quick progress already. You should be proud of what you've learned and the progress you have made. I suggest you try the UK program for a few weeks and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, make a change.