Ranger's training thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » September 12th, 2010, 2:31 am

mikvan52 wrote:Personally, I wonder why ranger feels this need to say: "My goal is to be the best in both sports. I will do this by training on the erg and concentrating on SPI to the exclusion of (a whole host of training routines and theories)."
Because, basically, if they have the same commitment to training, everyone the same age and weight rows at about the same rate.

The rower with the biggest stroke wins.

For Senior and Veteran lightweights, a standard rate for 2K is 34-36 spm.

Dennis rates 34-36 for 2K.

Roy rates 34-36 for 2K.

You rate 34-36 for 2K.

I rate 34-36 for 2K.

Mike C. rates 34-36 for 2K.

Paul Siebach rates 34-36 for 2K.

Graham Watt rates 34-36 for 2K.

Etc.

Pace is rate x SPI (watts/stroke).

The rower with the biggest stroke wins.

At 8 SPI, as most 60s lwts stroke it out, 36 spm is 7:04, just the time of the 60s lwt hammer at WIRC 2010.

At 13 SPI, as the best young lwts stroke it out, 36 spm is 6:04, a minute faster, just the time of the Open lwt hammer at WIRC 2010.

The difference is 15 seconds per 500m: 1:31 vs. 1:46.

For a lightweight of any age, 13 SPI is rowing perfectly.

8 SPI is rowing like a little old man.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » September 12th, 2010, 3:06 am

When I started rowing OTW, just after setting the 55s lwt WR on the erg, I took a Learn To Row (LTR) class, where a bunch of townsfolk did sweep rowing in an 8, just to learn the basics.

When we were OTW, one middle-aged lady in the group was consistently singled out for the elegance of her stroke.

"Do it like her," we were told, over and over. "Her stroke is beautiful."

One day, instead of rowing in the boat, we got on ergs and did some rowing.

In part of the session, we were all rowing at the same rate, stroking along at 26 spm.

The lady with the beautiful stroke OTW was puzzled by the numbers that kept flashing up on the erg, though.

So, she leaned over my way and asked, "What is that big number there in the center of the monitor?"

Why does yours say 1:45 and mine say 2:45?

"Oh," i replied.

That's how fast you are going.

:D :D

"I am covering every 500m a minute faster than you are."

She was as slow as a barge stuck in ice, a 1x tangled in weeds, but she really _looked_ good.

Basically, rowing is not at all about aerobic capacity, as Mike VB demonstrates, both OTW and OTErg, given his poor aerobic capacity (low max HR).

Or, for God's sake, something as superficial as looking good.

Basically, rowing is all about leverage, effective and efficient stroking, generating easy power.

You don't have to row fast, pulling your guts out over 2K, gasping for air, turning blue in the face of the last 300m, to find out how good you are at rowing.

Just row along easily (70% HRR) at 22 spm for an hour or so.

How fast are you going?

1:49, as I do, or 1:59?

Or, ouch, 2:09?

That tells the story--clear as a bell.

Easy rowing at 22 spm, rowing that you can do every day for hours and hours, if you work at it, is done at 2K + 15 spm.

Since everyone doing this exercise is rowing at the same rate, the only difference contributing to the varied paces is natural stroking power.

Effective and efficient leverage.

Everything about what makes a rower good or bad is right there in easy rowing at 22 spm.

All of the rest is just race preparation, which is entirely predictable.

Everyone does race preparation in pretty much the same way, and for pretty much the same benefit.

Race preparation never made a bad rower into a good rower--or a good rower into a bad one.

If training is defined as an opportunity to get better, race preparation is irrelevant to training for rowing.

If you just spend most of your time rowing along easily, 70% HRR, at 22 spm, and note the pace you are going, you always know where you are with respect to 2K.

There is no need for predictive sharpening workouts, distance trials, 30'r20, and all of the other things that everyone around here thinks is better, if not the exclusive, proof of what you are capable of over 2K.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on September 12th, 2010, 5:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by PaulH » September 12th, 2010, 4:03 am

ranger wrote: Just row along easily (70% HRR) at 22 spm for an hour or so.

How fast are you going?

1:49, as I do, or 1:59?
Liar

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » September 12th, 2010, 4:06 am

PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote: Just row along easily (70% HRR) at 22 spm for an hour or so.

How fast are you going?

1:49, as I do, or 1:59?
Liar
Or, ouch, 2:09, like you?

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by hjs » September 12th, 2010, 4:07 am

aharmer wrote:
aharmer wrote:
ranger wrote:I assume that the HR I will see during sharpening at the end of the last couple of reps of 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) @ 1:32 will be pretty close to max.

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!! Okay, let's play this game again. Do you have any idea when this workout might happen? Any chance you could put it on your calendar, let us know the date, post the screenshot with HR data?

By the way, any interest in knocking out a 2k at 13 SPI r27? For somebody that has already done the training to pull a 2k at 13 SPI r32, this should be incredibly easy. As a matter of fact, if you look at watts, which is the right way to do it even though you refuse to, you pulling a 13 SPI r27 would be equivalent to a 7:00 erger sitting down and pulling a 7:26.

In other words, you should be able to do it in your sleep without warmup. You could walk down to the cave at any time and just knock it out, take a picture and shut us all up. Oh yeah, you'd also be setting an unofficial WR at the same time. Unless of course we care about your elevated weight, then you have to start looking at a different set of records.
So how about it? Care to take the challenge, or will you revert to the normal tactic of posting 10 messages in succession so the challenge is off the main page where it will be forgotten.
:lol:

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by hjs » September 12th, 2010, 4:08 am

ranger wrote:
NavigationHazard wrote:Fraud. You did no such 5ks and posted no such screenshots. Not here, not on the UK Forum.
Fraud fraud fraud.
Yes, I did.

ranger
:P

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by hjs » September 12th, 2010, 4:09 am

ranger wrote:
hjs wrote:
pinokio wrote:
If you did you can give the link or post it again, you won,t either cause you can,t. The only reason you say this lie is to pretent you every now and then you show something, but you never ever did and never ever dare to. :P
Bah.

You just missed it, Henry.

ranger
The only thing I missed is you paying your debt to me....................

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » September 12th, 2010, 4:48 am

hjs wrote:The only thing I missed is you paying your debt to me
I am not sure why you keep getting this turned around, Henry.

My training has already won the bet for me.

You have already lost.

I am now just playing out the consequences of my win--sharpening up what I have already done in my UT2 training.

Yea.

I am sure that you will be a stand up guy and pay me the $2000 you will owe me when I reach my targets this year.

Everyone is watching, Henry, so there really isn't any way to wiggle out of paying up.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by hjs » September 12th, 2010, 5:00 am

ranger wrote:
hjs wrote:The only thing I missed is you paying your debt to me
I am not sure why you keep getting this turned around, Henry.

My training has already won the bet for me.

You have already lost.

I am now just playing out the consequences of my win--sharpening up what I have already done in my UT2 training.

Yea.

I am sure that you will be a stand up guy and pay me the $2000 you will owe me when I reach my targets this year.

Everyone is watching, Henry, so there really isn't any way to wiggle out of paying up.

ranger

Ranger wrote:Apr 02, 2009:


We pay our bets, if we lose.
April 30, 2009:
Yea, time has run out
Oh well.
Don't much feel like doing a 2K, given that I still haven't sharpened for one.
2Ks hurt pretty badly if you aren't ready for them.
Hey, hjs, any possibility of modifying our $1000 bet along the lines of our $3000 bet?
A time extension would be _greatly_ appreciated.

That might be a squarer deal, given my situation (unprepared!).
I need to get sharpened up if I want to be doing 2Ks without a lot of grief.
Training is coming along great--but slowly.
Too slowly, it appears.
One last cry for mercy!
ranger wrote:
Nik Fleming wrote:YOU WONT
No, this time, I certainly will.
I have to.
The possibility of losing $1000 is a good motivator.
:oops: :oops:
It's twisting my arm!
True.
If I hadn't bet $1000 on my 2009 2K time, I wouldn't sharpen and race again.
But I _did_ bet on my 2009 2K time.
So...
Time to sharpen up (a bit) to prepare for a 2K.
I usually get a dozen seconds or so over 2K from a month or so of hard sharpening.
ranger
Ranger wrote:Apr 02, 2009:
Byron Drachman wrote: Then you will have no problem sending Henry a check for $1000 unless you verify your weight as a lightweight in a manner suitable to Henry and post a sub 6:40 2K with verification code before the end of this month.

Indeed I will.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » September 12th, 2010, 5:20 am

According to the interactive plan, 1:49 @ 22 spm is UT2 for a 6:16 2K.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mrfit » September 12th, 2010, 5:26 am

Oh my God...Henry, you must have been livid when he went and bought the Fluid.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » September 12th, 2010, 5:29 am

It is great to see that Dennis Hastings is now _better_ at 60 than he was at 55.

Paul Hendershott was also better at 60 than he was at 55.

So, we now have proof positive that, without even upgrading their skills, for those veterans who really take care of business, decline with age is really nothing at all.

And then, if a veteran also upgrades their skills...

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » September 12th, 2010, 5:37 am

When I was 55, I pulled 6:29.7, rowing poorly at max drag, without even sharpening for it, just on the basis of low rate, foundational training.

I now row well at low drag (118 df.).

I will be sharpening hard from now until WIRC, that is, for the next six months.

I usually get a dozen seconds over 2K from several months of hard sharpening.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on September 12th, 2010, 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mrfit » September 12th, 2010, 5:39 am

...they go from 6:27.5 to 6:41.5 ?

nice skill

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » September 12th, 2010, 5:44 am

mrfit wrote:...they go from 6:27.5 to 6:41.5 ?

nice skill
Improving your rowing technique is quite a trick.

It takes a while to put a new stroke together.

The 6:41 was done without sharpening, with pretty good OTW technique, but at max drag.

That is, it was done without preparation and with some pretty large internal contradictions.

Fully sharpened and without those contradictions, that is, fully sharpened and rowing well at low drag (118 df.), I'll now pull 6:16.

The 6:27.5 was fully sharpened but rowing poorly at max drag.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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