real basic question

[GetSet2Go]

Hi All
I'm really new to this whole thing, only been using a rower for about a week! I'm planning on rowing a marathon next year on April 2nd, World Autism Awarness Day, to fund raise for Autism NZ. I'm fairly fit, having exercised regualrly for the last three or four years. I dropped 20 kilos three years ago and this is a way to keep it off.
Anyhow, my question! I've just been getting on the rower at the gym and gently getting into it. I can go for an hour with no problem, but not exactly speeding! In an hour I go 9782m, but it is at a converstional pace. I'm not going to my limit. I've got the damper thing down low, about 3 and the number in the top right is about 30 or 32. I'm very short- 5 foot nothing!- and 45 years old.
I cross train with weights. Has anyone got any tips about how to get faster? And is the number 30 or 32 too high? I saw somewhere it should be about 25?? No idea how I could make it do that!
Any thoughts appreciated

[jamesg]

It's the stroke length that counts in rowing, so try making your stroke longer by getting well forward at the catch. If that's difficult on damper 3, drop it even further so that you can pull long quick strokes, but not hard, and with no hurry on the recovery. In rowing the recovery can take twice as long as the pull, because boats go fast and don't slow down much, so there's no rush to get to the next stroke. But we do need to make sure the one we're doing now is a good one.

Once you have developed a long firm stroke with work in it, your rating (strokes/minute) will depend on your CV capacity and how long you want to go on.

This is what rowing looks like:

http://www.ara-rowing.org/rowing-stroke

Note the straight back, strong position at the catch and the speed of the pull: her blades are in the water in in only two of the photos.

[GetSet2Go]

Thanks for your reply I appreciate it. I did another hour last night and tried to make sense of the numbers depending on what I did. So paid attention to form. Yes, I saw the s/m change as you described. I also adjusted the drag to 120 which put me on a damper 5- it's a gym machine.
My further questions are:
Having really short legs means that they are extended before I've hardly moved so there is only so far back I'm going to go. This would give me a shorter stroke?
When the s/m was about 32 I had 2.50/500m. A lower s/m translated to a higher split, which means longer to row my marathon?

Anyhow, I'm having fun and have a year to sort this out before my fundraising event.
Happy Rowing Everyone

[GetSet2Go]

I'm pondering your reply and think I'm getting it! It's important that I reduce the s/m down or I'm not going to be able to complete my marathon. So I'm probably going to have to reduce the damper down to possibly one or two- even though this will be a low drag. Concentrate on the stroke and depending on how fit I am will end up translating to how fast and how long I can go for.
So put on my Ipod, keep one eye in the mirror and relax?

[Cyclist2]

I think what jamesg means by "long" stroke is getting power out of the entire stroke: Starting with a good reach at the catch but not overreaching and rounding your back; strong push with your legs with a strong connection through your back and arms to the handle; then keeping the momentum going with the back opening, but not leaning too far back, and arms pulling the handle to your ribs; quick away with your arms to get the momentum going the other way, then a slow, relaxed recovery getting your body in position for the next drive. The actual "length" of the stroke depends on your size, every person's will be different, but should look about the same. Check out some of the videos on YouTube on rowing, here is a good one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA

Have fun!

[grams]

I'm and old short marathoner. Here is my setup for training:

Damper on 3 1/2 (about)
Drag factor should be 100-120 at that setting. You should check it since you are on a shared erg.

Foot position at 5 holes (4 are showing)

Some seat padding

I row at 20 spm (strokes per minute)

10 meters/stroke (watch the meters total and adjust your stroke so your stroke is about 10 meters each) This is more work than doing more strokes/minute, but it builds strengthens your leg muscles more.

push away firmly with your back straight and your abs tight. at the end of your stroke do a little shoulder shrug back. the recovery should take twice as long as the push back.

Keep your back straight all the time. Keep your head level and looking forward.

Establish a consistent breathing pattern.

When trying for a new shorter time you will have to increase your stroke rate to 22-24 spm.

Sign up for the Nonathlon www.nonathlon.com Its fun and gives you a real feel for what others are doing.

Play good music and relax.

Regards, grams

[michaelb]

Certainly take Grams advice, since she has been doing marathons for a long time.

My one or two tips would be to try rowing strapless. Don't put the straps on your feet, row with your feet on top of the straps. I would be very surprised if you manage to row 30-32 strokes per minute strapless, so that may be the most direct way to start thinking about each stroke, and making it more worthwhile (ie lower, faster, pace and lower stroke rate).

You mentioned lowering the damper. My understanding is that lowering the drag/damper would tend to increase your stroke rate, and makes getting "connection" harder. You want to learn to feel the resistence instantly when you start the drive. Lower drag makes that harder to feel, you have to be quicker and have better technique to catch the flywheel at low drag. Increasing the drag would be one way to work on feeling the connection, but I would not want you to do that: I think your damper is fine now where it is at 120, so would not recommend you mucking around with that. You can decide to go lower later, but only after you really feel connection at the start of the drive.

Otherwise, if you are rowing an hour already you are doing very well. that is tough for anyone. But to do a marathon, ideally I would like to see paces more in the 2:30 or better range, just to finish the M in a more reasonable length of time. You have a year of training, so I think you can be confident those paces will come down by a lot over that time.

good luck.

[grams]

I didn't suggest the strapless thing as I remember what happened when I first tried it. I didn't have the hang of the lower stroke and I shot off the seat backward onto the rail and bruised my tailbone.

After I got the general technique down, then I did most of my sessions strapless.

grams

[GetSet2Go]

Thanks everyone, it is fantastic support you are all offering. It's really keeping me hanging on in there
I'm going to play about with all the suggestions to see where I end up! I adjusted the damper right down as in the earlier suggestions and really concentrated on form. That was great advice! I could see the effect of a long reach and straight back translated exactly into lower s/m numbers! And also the timing of my legs and arms had a huge effect. Yesterday I could feel in my body when it was 'a good stroke' or when I had stuffed it up I've moved from an s/m number of 31 or 32 down to a regualar 23. So that has to be good! I'm going way too slow to make a marathon possible, but as someone said I've got about a year to sort that bit out! As soon as I think about going faster I lose my form and start pulling hard with my arms at all the wrong moments.
At this pace I hardly break into a sweat (av 3:18/500m) but I'm thinking at this stage form should be more important.
Thanks again, without your help I dread to think what I'd be doing

[grams]

Good job! It is a lot to remember all at once. Your split time should come way down when you have been at it for a while. When I was seriously training my split was 2:20/500 for 8000 meters. And I was 15 yeras older than you. The leg drive is key, as is a slow continuous return.

No one does a marathon at 30 spm. Mine were in the 21-23 spm range.

grams

[GetSet2Go]

Just as an update. sm rate is a regular 21, 22 so that seems sorted. Did an hour and a half today but by am I slow. The trick now seems to be keeping the form so as to keep the sm in the right range but transfering more power- or speeding up the amount of times I move the seat backwards and forwards without losing form. Is that correct?

[Cyclist2]

Having the correct form is the key, as you have discovered. Assuming you can do that at "any" stroke rating, I compare it to gears on a bike: You can go at a real low stroke rate and put lots of power into each (like a high gear going up a hill) or use a high rate with less power in each stroke (shifting to a lower gear and spinning up the hill). Either way gets you up the hill, but how you feel on each is different. Try this: set your monitor to watts. Row at a low stroke rate with your current "feel" and see how many watts you generate on each stroke. Then raise the stroke rate and keep the watts the same. I think you'll find it feels easier but you are putting out the same power!

As you get better, your watts will go up with any stroke rate (fitness improving), your form will improve (practice) and then you can choose the stroke rate you want for any particular goal.

Have fun!

[GetSet2Go]

Yesterday I felt that maybe something is dropping into place! My s/m rate is steady at between about 21 24. Seems automatic now. I'm rowing without the straps and finding that not a problem. Did an hour and for the first time since I started the 500m av was often under 3: somthing. Ended up with an av of 3.05. Saw it come up as I got tired. So I guess with training I will see that average come down.
The thing that interests me is that on my second time on the rower I went for an hour and had the same 500m av- and from my log said it was easy! I would have done this at about a 30s/m. Because I didn't know better! Drag would have been about the same. How does that work, getting the same result yesterday ?? It certainly was not easy yesterday
Is it because I'm setting up form for distance now?
All the Best

[saasha]

There was a bloke in my town a few months back who rowed 2hours a day for as long as it took to raise 10grand. he did his ergs at 2.20 and at about 24, for every session he had a support erger from the local rowing club with him.

For motivation try setting a paceboat and keeping aheadof it and if you use the same erg each day try using the pace boat of the day before to ensure your splits improve.

Can I ask what part of NZ you are from? I really support your cause as a relief carer of several autistic kids.


"Train hard get lucky"

[GetSet2Go]

HI There,
I'm in Wellington