Drive Stroke (Need More Leg Than Arm Input)

[Romper]

Hi guys.

I need your help in fine tuning my drive stroke starting from the catch.

I have taken a lot more time in reading, analysing and performing my stroke the last few weeks.

There is one thing that I just can't seem to master yet - that is the very start of the drive leg - whereby I need to explode off from the foot pad using my quads/glute muscle group and zero arm force/pull.

I just cannot seem to get it right and always feel I am pulling with my arms to compliment my leg/bum muscles for this action....

I maintain straight arms and do not bend my elbows until after my legs are straight (and heading into 'finish').

I am driving off my toes.

I know that I am not maximising my drive potential when i share the load with my arms.

Besides going more muscle on my legs, can you offer any advice to help me eliminate any pull/force with my arms at the start of my drive stroke?


Romper

[Bob S.]

Hi guys.

I just cannot seem to get it right and always feel I am pulling with my arms to compliment my leg/bum muscles for this action....

The problem is that it is a matter of competing, not complimenting. The relatively weak muscles of the arms are having to compete with the much stronger muscles of the legs. ?The results are sore arms and a weaker initial part of the drive.

Besides going more muscle on my legs, can you offer any advice to help me eliminate any pull/force with my arms at the start of my drive stroke?

Quite awhile back a former active member of the forum used to suggest tying the handle with a rope and then, with arms straight, pushing hard enough with the legs to begin to feel your butt lift off the seat. Not that you want to do that while rowing, but just to get the feel of a really hard leg push. I have never tried that my self, but others have said that his advice was helpful.

Bob S.

[Romper]

Thanks Bob.

What technique do you employ to ensure you do not use any arm force during that initial part of the drive stroke?

Do you (or anyone else) want to elaborate on some of the previous posts made in these threads in relation to this current topic?

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11866
http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=206

As the hands have to hold the handle during the drive in any case, how do I know I am actually applying a pulling force with the handle and not just simply holding the handle that travels along with the leg stroke (during the first stages of the stroke)?



ROmper

[Bob S.]

I don't think of it as pulling, but rather pushing my legs away relative to my shoulders. The fact that my hands are hooked to the handle keeps my arms straight until the legs have done most of their work. Does this make sense? After over 70 years of rolling seat rowing, I don't really think much about the movement, but just do it automatically. Even before that, for about 9 years of fixed thwart rowing, I noticed that I was pushing isometrically with my heels against the ribs of the skiff to keep from my butt from sliding sternward.

Bob S.

[hjs]

You could do strokes without bending the arms, just push the legs and drive the back. You will hit the straps though. Better use higher drag and maybe even set the back of the erg a bit elevated. This keeps the drive slower. Only hang on the arms.

[Bob S.]

Here is a long discussion about that topic:

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 82#p181182

Bob S.

I see that the URL provided puts you in the middle of the discussion. It helps to scroll up a way to see the earlier posts.

[Romper]

Thanks guys

For a correct technique, How much resistance should one feel in the arms just after exploding out of the catch and before the knees straighten?

Does raising the front of the erg help with drive acceleration ?

This YouTube video was taken of me last year. My technique has changed / improved (I think) since this video but I want to know if I am shooting the slide in this video?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RLiXkhGZVKY



Romper

[Bob S.]

Thanks guys

For a correct technique, How much resistance should one feel in the arms just after exploding out of the catch and before the knees straighten?

Does raising the rear of the erg help with drive acceleration ?

This YouTube video was taken if me last year. My technique has changed / improved since this video but I want to know if I am shooting the slide in this video?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RLiXkhGZVKY



Romper

Yes. I looked at just the first few strokes and it is clear that your back bends a little forward at the start of each stroke. the backward movement of your shoulders lags a bit relative to your seat.

Bob S.

[Romper]

Thanks bob.

Shooting the slide is one cause of my problem, isn't it - because it is forcing me to use my arms to pull from catch??

I will post another short clip of my changed technique later today.

Answers to the other 2 questions in that post above?

Romper

[hjs]

Thanks bob.

Shooting the slide is one cause of my problem, isn't it - because it is forcing me to use my arms to pull from catch??

I will post another short clip of my changed technique later today.

Answers to the other 2 questions in that post above?

Romper

The main problem I see is the stroke is relative weak, and the rating used is to high. With lower rating you have more energy per stroke and can use a stronger stroke. For the rest, you move like you move. This style is obviously one your body likes. And although you made some changes, the rough moving patern stayed the same.

[Romper]

Thanks HJS.

That video is not my most current style and you will see some changes as i now use my hips more, better posture and arms are better.

But, I still suspect I shoot the slide and do not align my body lever points up properly yet.

I will post a current video up soon.

Do you know how much resistance should be felt in the arms just after exploding out of the catch and before the knees straighten?

Do you know if raising the front of the erg help with drive acceleration ?


Romper

[hjs]

Thanks HJS.

That video is not my most current style and you will see some changes as i now use my hips more, better posture and arms are better.

But, I still suspect I shoot the slide and do not align my body lever points up properly yet.

I will post a current video up soon.

Do you know how much resistance should be felt in the arms just after exploding out of the catch and before the knees straighten?

Do you know if raising the front of the erg help with drive acceleration ?


Romper

First, there is no exploding out of the catch, just a drive, rowing has nothing to do with exploding.
The resistance should be through your whole body. From the handle true the body to the feet. The arms should hang on the shoulders.
raising the front would be really wrong, raising the back maybe, that way the legs need to work harder, but ther front will make it easy on the legs.

[Romper]

Thanks for that perspective.

A lot of the literature I have read is that they refer 'exploding' out of the catch, like a spring off the balls of the feet...

Should the arms be pulling that handle at all during the first half of the drive?

Romper

[Romper]

Here is something I just found on the net:

"When initiating your drive, apply equal pressure to the foot plate and to the handle to achieve a sense of weightlessness or suspension over your seat. Drive hard with the feet and exert pressure on the handle. This connection between seat and hands will give you a powerful start to your stroke. You always want the seat to move simultaneously with the handle."

http://crossfitstl.com/may-the-force-be-with-you/


Romper

[hjs]

Thanks for that perspective.

A lot of the literature I have read is that they refer 'exploding' out of the catch, like a spring off the balls of the feet...

Should the arms be pulling that handle at all during the first half of the drive?

Romper

That is nonsense. A rowingstroke is far from a maximal effort. Try to do a standing jump. Do 10 of those in a row. That could be called exploding, no way you can keep doing that for long.