Bow Coxed vs. Stern Coxed 4s

corpsrower · Post by **corpsrower** » September 12th, 2007, 2:51 pm

I'm currently rowing in a bow coxed 4 and can't get used to the fact that we've got a coxswain who's almost useless to us since they can't see and correct any mistakes that are occuring. It's almost as if they are just there to steer.

What are the pros and cons that people usually point to and why are all manufacturers moving towards bow coxed 4s

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 12th, 2007, 4:39 pm

corpsrower wrote:I'm currently rowing in a bow coxed 4 and can't get used to the fact that we've got a coxswain who's almost useless to us since they can't see and correct any mistakes that are occuring. It's almost as if they are just there to steer.

What are the pros and cons that people usually point to and why are all manufacturers moving towards bow coxed 4s

Pure fashion over function, much like the trend to use shoes instead of clogs. (Hey, it looks cool, doesn't it?)

As far as a bow sitting cox.

Pros:
Lower Center of gravity for the cox.
Unobstructed view ahead.

Cons:
Unobstructed view ahead.
Possible death trap in swamping.
Useless for crew feedback.

becz · Post by **becz** » September 12th, 2007, 8:50 pm

I've read a number of accounts now of back to back comparisons over a set distance with the same crew that seems to indicate a speed advantage of a bow coxed boat. I've also seen a number of potential reasons why this is so (better weight distribution so less porpoising, better stability, etc.) but I'm not sure what is fact and what is fiction.

Ray79 · Post by **Ray79** » September 13th, 2007, 3:57 am

becz wrote:I've read a number of accounts now of back to back comparisons over a set distance with the same crew that seems to indicate a speed advantage of a bow coxed boat. I've also seen a number of potential reasons why this is so (better weight distribution so less porpoising, better stability, etc.) but I'm not sure what is fact and what is fiction.

It would probably depend on the weight distribution of the rowers in the boat as well. Our current crew has 2 light rowers (me and another lad) in the stern and 2 heavier rowers in the bow pair. (we really need to sort this out)

Any more weight in the bow and we would become a submarine

Stern coxed boats are really good for OTW coaching, particularly useful in a small club like mine that does not have dedicated coaching for every outing.

ancho · Post by **ancho** » September 13th, 2007, 5:26 am

Ray79 wrote:...
Any more weight in the bow and we would become a submarine
....

Like this ?

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » September 13th, 2007, 9:04 am

ancho wrote:
Ray79 wrote:...
Any more weight in the bow and we would become a submarine :wink:
....
Like this ? :twisted:

Quote from the URL: Ozlu hopes the Uscull will become a new sport, possibly achieving a high following and even appearing the Olympics, it certainly would be interesting to watch.

???????

It goes on to say: Users of the Uscull would not require much training to operate the miniature sub, however basic training in scuba gear use would be necessary.

Does this apply to the spectators as well?

Just wondering,

Bob S.

ancho · Post by **ancho** » September 13th, 2007, 10:53 am

At least, the risk of flipping won't be as dangerous

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 13th, 2007, 11:50 am

ancho wrote:At least, the risk of flipping won't be as dangerous

Considering that the user is on SCUBA gear, I suppose not. But It's hard to imagine what tank capacity would be required. "Twin 80's" ain't gonna do it.

Methinks the author may be a facetious comedian...

Back to topic: We have several bow coxed 4's that are pretty nice to row as straight 4x's when the boats plated capacity is not quite high enough. One of the few chances I get to be near the bow.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » September 13th, 2007, 2:44 pm

PaulS wrote: Back to topic: We have several bow coxed 4's that are pretty nice to row as straight 4x's when the boats plated capacity is not quite high enough. One of the few chances I get to be near the bow.

O.K., Paul, you got me. What is the "boats plated capacity?" I considered that there might have been a typo involved, but couldn't come up with a reasonable original. Do some shells have a marker somewhere that states the capacity? I have seen recommended weights in sales notices for used shells, especially singles, but I have neither seen nor heard the term "plated" used.

Ships sometimes have bulkhead-mounted plates that give their tonnage ratings. Is this a term derived from that practice? (I won't ask what your "tonnage" is. That would not be fair play.)

Bob S.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 13th, 2007, 3:58 pm

Bob S. wrote:
PaulS wrote: Back to topic: We have several bow coxed 4's that are pretty nice to row as straight 4x's when the boats plated capacity is not quite high enough. One of the few chances I get to be near the bow.
O.K., Paul, you got me. What is the "boats plated capacity?" I considered that there might have been a typo involved, but couldn't come up with a reasonable original. Do some shells have a marker somewhere that states the capacity? I have seen recommended weights in sales notices for used shells, especially singles, but I have neither seen nor heard the term "plated" used.

Ships sometimes have bulkhead-mounted plates that give their tonnage ratings. Is this a term derived from that practice? (I won't ask what your "tonnage" is. That would not be fair play.)

Bob S.

My Tonnage? About 0.12.

The rest you have inferred well. There is a current requirement by FISA for boats to have an attached placard (plate) with the boat capacity, not only to sit at the Designed waterline, but also the capacity that can be seated in it when fully swamped and not allow the deck to be more than 5cm under water, sometimes referred to as "full buoyancy". We do this for the Swift Racing boats that I sell, and Wintech is also complying, but many of the major manufacturers (including the boats at my Club) would not be in compliance and would sink promptly if swamped with a crew seated.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » September 14th, 2007, 12:08 am

PaulS wrote: There is a current requirement by FISA for boats to have an attached placard (plate) with the boat capacity, not only to sit at the Designed waterline, but also the capacity that can be seated in it when fully swamped and not allow the deck to be more than 5cm under water, sometimes referred to as "full buoyancy".

Thanks, Paul. I have been away from the boathouse way too long (weigh 'nuff?). Here in the Owens Valley, the photographic opportunities are great, but rowing is not very practical.

Bob S.

Ray79 · Post by **Ray79** » September 14th, 2007, 4:51 am

PaulS wrote:Back to topic: We have several bow coxed 4's that are pretty nice to row as straight 4x's when the boats plated capacity is not quite high enough. One of the few chances I get to be near the bow.

We had a new bow coxed 4 at my last club back in Ireland (ah those were the days), but we rarely had a cox, so we split the steering wires and put a movable shoe in the 2 seat to make it a coxless for training outings. Then when it came to races we just re connected the wires to the steering.
Worked really well at the time

ancho · Post by **ancho** » September 14th, 2007, 6:37 pm

Yeah, we used to put weights at the cox's seat to level the boat and get used to the weight.

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » September 16th, 2007, 7:31 pm

The bow coxed Sykes fours at our club are certainly quicker than the stern coxed ones.

However, when a certain busty female coxswain is steering our crew I don't mind using the stern coxed four. That's because when I sit in stroke seat I get a spectacular view down her cleavage when I'm reaching out for the catch. Unfortunately this has tended to lead to a problem with my rowing technique as our coach then tells me off for over reaching at the catch. A well focussed stroke like me usually looks straight ahead, so in which direction do you think I look when on hot sunny days she decides to roll down her top further to get rid of those tan lines?

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » September 17th, 2007, 2:43 am

Rockin Roland wrote:The bow coxed Sykes fours at our club are certainly quicker than the stern coxed ones.

However, when a certain busty female coxswain is steering our crew I don't mind using the stern coxed four. That's because when I sit in stroke seat I get a spectacular view down her cleavage when I'm reaching out for the catch. Unfortunately this has tended to lead to a problem with my rowing technique as our coach then tells me off for over reaching at the catch. A well focussed stroke like me usually looks straight ahead, so in which direction do you think I look when on hot sunny days she decides to roll down her top further to get rid of those tan lines?

RR,

When it gets to the point where you have to raise the handle too high on the recovery in order to clear any potential obstruction, you are in real trouble.

Just a thought.

Bob S.

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