my first 2K time trial

kipkeino68 · Post by **kipkeino68** » January 5th, 2007, 9:27 pm

My main sport has been running for the past 5 years.
I'm male 49, 5"11, 156. I decided to take a break from running and row this winter.
Its been about about 3 weeks of steady training.
I live in Massachusetts, so I decided to try the CRASH_B distance of 2000M.
That's a painful distance! My time was 8:03.9 with average watts 198 and 32 s/m. I kept a fairly even pace, and watched my form. The tough part was keeping a consistent breathing ryhthm. I'd inhale on the recovery and exhale on the drive, and a minute latter I'm doing the opposite. Very sloppy on the breathing.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Bill

Atorrante · Post by **Atorrante** » January 5th, 2007, 10:10 pm

Altough it is not a bad time, I think you can improve with more training time. The ergometer is not an easy machine at the beggining. I have been rowing for about 4 years, and when I quit rowing for a couple of months, the first weeks are really hard. Continue a training program with specially long rows of at least 30 minutes, and try a 2K in a couple of months and you should improve that time.

Eric E. · Post by **Eric E.** » January 6th, 2007, 12:05 pm

kipkeino68 I just started rowing also. Back in the fall I got a model C with a PM2+ so I bought rowpro didn't even get a chance to do some online racing when the PM2+ broke(battery leaked on the board). So I have been kinda rowing off and on the last couple months. More off than on.

Anyways blah blah blah. I just got the PM3 in the mail and I am pretty much doing the same time as you. I am 31 145-150lbs and 5'9". I am thinking about going to the crash B's also as I live in MA (northshore). I will get my ass handed to me but looks like a fun time.

http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.php

^Check out 5.iv 2000m race training

Oh btw I cracked the forum haha I am a new user and I posted a link guess how I did it.

Yankeerunner · Post by **Yankeerunner** » January 6th, 2007, 12:29 pm

kipkeino68 wrote:My main sport has been running for the past 5 years.
I'm male 49, 5"11, 156. I decided to take a break from running and row this winter.
Its been about about 3 weeks of steady training.
I live in Massachusetts, so I decided to try the CRASH_B distance of 2000M.
That's a painful distance! My time was 8:03.9 with average watts 198 and 32 s/m. I kept a fairly even pace, and watched my form. The tough part was keeping a consistent breathing ryhthm. I'd inhale on the recovery and exhale on the drive, and a minute latter I'm doing the opposite. Very sloppy on the breathing.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Bill

Bill,

Love the nickname. Kip ruled!

If you can make it up to Newburyport on January 21st I'll be having a low-key 2km race at my store (Yankee Runner, which you might appreciate) that might warm you up for CRASH-B's.

Rick

toby · Post by **toby** » January 6th, 2007, 9:28 pm

A few suggestions/comments:

1) See if you can get a local rower/erger to give you some tips on technique. Most people new to erging row at too high a rate in proportion to the power they're producing, usually because of a poor connection at the beginning of the leg drive, and a tendency to rush the slide forward after each stroke. For instance, I imagine that someone of your size and fitness could row your 2:01/500m pace 2k at a rating of around 22-25spm (strokes per minute), rather than the 32spm you describe.

2) I'm the same age as you, but shorter and fatter and without any aerobic exercise for decades until I took up erging a year ago. Like you I also rowed a 2k a few weeks after taking up erging. Like you it was at a split time of around 2:00/500m (7:57.9 @ 26spm -- and I had to pause twice while doing it to catch my breath!). In the year since then (didn't erg for the 3 summer months, though) my 2k time has dropped to 7:19.8 (1:49.9 split), so I imagine that you'll make rapid gains in speed if you wish to.

3) I follow a slightly modified version of Mike Caviston's Wolverine Plan. The "full" WP takes a bit more time than I have to erg, so I use a "3/4 WP" version in which all 6 workouts per week take less than an hour (including warmup time). The WP has worked well for me, and I find its structure and rationale well suited to my goals. But any structured plan is probably better than none. As a runner you probably have more idea than I did about the value of various training plan elements.

Sitting backwards and going nowhere,

kipkeino68 · Post by **kipkeino68** » January 8th, 2007, 11:55 am

If you can make it up to Newburyport on January 21st I'll be having a low-key 2km race at my store (Yankee Runner, which you might appreciate) that might warm you up for CRASH-B's.

Rick[/quote]

Thanks Rick. I'll probably be able to make it. When is a good time to get there?
Bill

Yankeerunner · Post by **Yankeerunner** » January 8th, 2007, 1:35 pm

Bill,

We'll start at about 9:00am with the 50+ lwts and others handling the organizing details. I'll be here about 7-7:30am setting things up. Any time you can get here to be ready to race at 9:00am or later is fine. We'll do heats of 4 each and should be able to fit you in any time between 9 and 11 that is convenient to you.

If you send your email adress to me at Rick22056(at)aol(dot)com I'll add you to my email update list.

Rick

Tyn · Post by **Tyn** » January 8th, 2007, 1:58 pm

Eric E. wrote:kipkeino68 I just started rowing also. Back in the fall I got a model C with a PM2+ so I bought rowpro didn't even get a chance to do some online racing when the PM2+ broke(battery leaked on the board). So I have been kinda rowing off and on the last couple months. More off than on. Anyways blah blah blah. I just got the PM3 in the mail and I am pretty much doing the same time as you. I am 31 145-150lbs and 5'9". I am thinking about going to the crash B's also as I live in MA (northshore). I will get my ass handed to me but looks like a fun time.

http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.php

^Check out 5.iv 2000m race training

Oh btw I cracked the forum haha I am a new user and I posted a link guess how I did it.

Just edited your post?

kipkeino68,

Great time!! Keep on rowing and try to improve on your technique!

Some people on the forum think that you should go sub 8, just the first time the c2 comes out of the box!!

I'm not one of them!!

See some videos and read the forum. there is some great advice, if you can find it, that is!!

The breathing thing is something I have learned on the longer rows, like HM and FM, it comes like automaticly!!, don't think just row!! It will come... in time!

Happy Rowing!!

Alissa · Post by **Alissa** » January 8th, 2007, 3:18 pm

kipkeino68 wrote:The tough part was keeping a consistent breathing ryhthm. I'd inhale on the recovery and exhale on the drive, and a minute latter I'm doing the opposite. Very sloppy on the breathing.

Hi Bill,

Interesting on the breathing. Do a search and you'll find several threads on breathing. There are some who advocate what you started with (inhaling on recovery, exhaling on drive) and others who advocate what you ended up w/ (exhaling on recovery, inhaling on drive).

So maybe your body wants to put you in the second group! Not necesarily a bad thing--you'd in good company--as Xeno Muller, an olympic gold medalist, is one of the members of the second group!

Best wishes.

Alissa

kipkeino68 · Post by **kipkeino68** » January 11th, 2007, 6:32 pm

The breathing is coming along. Inhale on the drive and exhale on the recovery is working. I mentioned 8:03.9 2K was my first time trial.

Today I tried my first interval workout. (I've been rowing 1 month)

8 x 500m @ 1:56.6 (28s/m) with a 3 min recovery(very slow rowing)
I like this workout.
Is 3 minutes too long a recovery? Thanks for any advice!

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » January 11th, 2007, 6:48 pm

kipkeino68 wrote:The breathing is coming along. Inhale on the drive and exhale on the recovery is working. I mentioned 8:03.9 2K was my first time trial.

Today I tried my first interval workout. (I've been rowing 1 month)

8 x 500m @ 1:56.6 (28s/m) with a 3 min recovery(very slow rowing)
I like this workout.
Is 3 minutes too long a recovery? Thanks for any advice!

If you go to 2min rest periods on the 8 x 500m, the overall avg pace will be very close to what you should be able to hold for a 2k.

Be careful with the exhaling on the recovery, especially if you are exhaling right into the catch. Our ribs are used to having the support of internal air pressure when being compressed externally and if you are removing that support and adding external pressure (up against the thighs) it can lead to intercostal spraining, which is very uncomfortable and does not heal quickly. In more aggressive training it can result in a stress fracture of the ribs and will have you sitting on the sidelines breathing shallow and wondering when training will be able to begin again.

Kiwi_Rower · Post by **Kiwi_Rower** » January 11th, 2007, 7:40 pm

PaulS wrote:
kipkeino68 wrote:The breathing is coming along. Inhale on the drive and exhale on the recovery is working. I mentioned 8:03.9 2K was my first time trial.

Today I tried my first interval workout. (I've been rowing 1 month)

8 x 500m @ 1:56.6 (28s/m) with a 3 min recovery(very slow rowing)
I like this workout.
Is 3 minutes too long a recovery? Thanks for any advice!
If you go to 2min rest periods on the 8 x 500m, the overall avg pace will be very close to what you should be able to hold for a 2k.

Be careful with the exhaling on the recovery, especially if you are exhaling right into the catch. Our ribs are used to having the support of internal air pressure when being compressed externally and if you are removing that support and adding external pressure (up against the thighs) it can lead to intercostal spraining, which is very uncomfortable and does not heal quickly. In more aggressive training it can result in a stress fracture of the ribs and will have you sitting on the sidelines breathing shallow and wondering when training will be able to begin again.

Could this be the reason why I felt like I had a stitch in my right side for a day and a half after a fairly long row (for me) of 42 mins last week? I think I exhale on the recovery...

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » January 12th, 2007, 11:28 am

Kiwi_Rower wrote:
PaulS wrote:
kipkeino68 wrote:The breathing is coming along. Inhale on the drive and exhale on the recovery is working. I mentioned 8:03.9 2K was my first time trial.

Today I tried my first interval workout. (I've been rowing 1 month)

8 x 500m @ 1:56.6 (28s/m) with a 3 min recovery(very slow rowing)
I like this workout.
Is 3 minutes too long a recovery? Thanks for any advice!
If you go to 2min rest periods on the 8 x 500m, the overall avg pace will be very close to what you should be able to hold for a 2k.

Be careful with the exhaling on the recovery, especially if you are exhaling right into the catch. Our ribs are used to having the support of internal air pressure when being compressed externally and if you are removing that support and adding external pressure (up against the thighs) it can lead to intercostal spraining, which is very uncomfortable and does not heal quickly. In more aggressive training it can result in a stress fracture of the ribs and will have you sitting on the sidelines breathing shallow and wondering when training will be able to begin again.
Could this be the reason why I felt like I had a stitch in my right side for a day and a half after a fairly long row (for me) of 42 mins last week? I think I exhale on the recovery...

I don't know the physiology that causes the "stitch" in the side, so can't answer that question. I think at one point it was attributed to the shock being sustained to the peritineum and/or diaphragm, but that wouldn't apply much in rowing and it can definitely happen when rowing also. It's always felt like an acute muscle cramp to me, but what we feel and what is happening can be very different sometimes.

Perhaps there is an exercise physiologist lurking about that has a better answer. Or heck, wikipedia probably has more than we would ever want to know about it, though I'm not sure what keywords to search with.

kipkeino68 · Post by **kipkeino68** » January 12th, 2007, 5:31 pm

thanks Paul

"If you go to 2min rest periods on the 8 x 500m, the overall avg pace will be very close to what you should be able to hold for a 2k."
[/quote]

Is it safe to assume that 4 x 1000 meters has a 4 min recovery?

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » January 12th, 2007, 7:06 pm

kipkeino68 wrote:thanks Paul

PaulS wrote: "If you go to 2min rest periods on the 8 x 500m, the overall avg pace will be very close to what you should be able to hold for a 2k."
Is it safe to assume that 4 x 1000 meters has a 4 min recovery?

I don't generally prescribe 4 x 1k, but I suppose I would go with a 3 minute rest. The target pace would not be 2k pace, but more like 2k + 2. The individual interval is getting a bit too long at that point to expect full anaerobic capacity recovery. i.e. 30 sec x 30 sec rest can be done for a very long time with nearly no fade from 2k pace, but it's a special case. 1:00 x 1:00rest @ 2k pace might be sustainable for 12-13 repetitions, but then the end comes pretty quickly.

I try to leave the unique suffering of a 2k for 2k's, and use longer challenging pieces to develop mental toughness. 2k and faster paces simply cause the body to fail, and there isn't anything the brain can do about that, however it's more often that the mind fails when the body truly could keep going.

When you can tackle a 6k at 2k + 10 without balking at any point, you are ready for a new 2k PB.

PS - Were there really 67 previous kipkeino's?

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