A little background info on myself. I'm 20 yrs old and I'm a college runner who is sidelined with Achilles Tendonitis right now. I was biking at our Local Y, when I got on the rowing machine about a week ago. Later that night I researched a little on good technique (Concepts website), and have been rowing everyday since then, using the rowing to supplement my stationary bike riding.
I'm not trying to set records, but I want to get a decent aerobic w/o. I'm relatively small (5'8" 120 pounds), and when I try to use my legs to speed up, I tend to find myself using my arms too much. Is there any way to correct this, and how should I improve my effieciency.
After reading the forum, I have noticed people saying they can be rowing the same speed, but doubling people in distance. Is this also a matter of effieciency?
Finally, I have figured out how to use the drag, but is there any recommendations for me to get my heart rate up (Workout Wise)?
Any advice is welcomed, and sorry for the long winded topic. I have really enjoyed rowing thus far, and just want to do it right, and do it to get some benefit.
Thanks in advance.
Advice Needed.
Does your college have a crew team? If so find someone on the team or anyone who knows how to row and have them give you a lesson.
If it has a PM3 or PM4 change the display to look at the force curve. That should help.
Study the pictures of how to row properly. If you can video tape yourself do so. It may provide very good feedback. I'm sure many people here, myself included, would give you good advice if you posted it or sent the video to them. Once your technique is OK, you will have no problem getting your heart rate to whatever level you want.
What drag factor are you using?
If it has a PM3 or PM4 change the display to look at the force curve. That should help.
Study the pictures of how to row properly. If you can video tape yourself do so. It may provide very good feedback. I'm sure many people here, myself included, would give you good advice if you posted it or sent the video to them. Once your technique is OK, you will have no problem getting your heart rate to whatever level you want.
What drag factor are you using?
[quote="EGreen"]I have been around 105 on the drag. I usually set the resistance to around 5.[/quote]
That sounds good, but you could also consider a lower factor. 120 lbs is pretty light. So what is your stroke rating and power like?
A common drill in a boat is to row without arms. Just keep them straight. Another is to row without arms or back--keep them both at the "catch" position: arms straight, slight foward lean. I haven't tried it on an erg but it may help just to get a feel for the leg drive.
That sounds good, but you could also consider a lower factor. 120 lbs is pretty light. So what is your stroke rating and power like?
A common drill in a boat is to row without arms. Just keep them straight. Another is to row without arms or back--keep them both at the "catch" position: arms straight, slight foward lean. I haven't tried it on an erg but it may help just to get a feel for the leg drive.
Your stroke rating is very high for the speed. So the good news is that you will get a lot of improvement with better technique. It will also be a lot more fun.
So reread the technique section on CII web site, and find some help.
Make sure you hands are perfectly level throughtout the stroke. If you are lifting your hands over your knees on the drive, you are opening up your body and pulling in with your arms much too soon. If you are lifting your hands over your knees on the recovery, you are bending your knees too soon: your arms should be out and body should be set before you come up the slide. Make sure you complete the power stroke before your come up the slide.
Try to get some help from someone who knows how to row--your school might be the best place to start.
So reread the technique section on CII web site, and find some help.
Make sure you hands are perfectly level throughtout the stroke. If you are lifting your hands over your knees on the drive, you are opening up your body and pulling in with your arms much too soon. If you are lifting your hands over your knees on the recovery, you are bending your knees too soon: your arms should be out and body should be set before you come up the slide. Make sure you complete the power stroke before your come up the slide.
Try to get some help from someone who knows how to row--your school might be the best place to start.
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RowtheRockies
- 6k Poster
- Posts: 853
- Joined: March 22nd, 2006, 3:21 pm
- Location: Colorado
EGreen,
It sucks to be injured but at least you have found some alternative excercises. I assume your intent is to return to running once your achiles is better and do not intend to row long term.
That said, being a former runner who converted to rowing because of a back problem, I would suggest looking at using an eliptical trainer for your cross training while injured. Also pool running if that is an option to you. Both of these activities more closely simulate running movement. The one caveat though is that the eliptical may bother your achiles in which case it would not be an option for you.
If you want to continue the rowing while you are injured , I would suggest lowering your SPM down to 20 - 22 and working at a level that keeps your HR in your aerobic zone. If you are doing 28 SPM and your 500M splits are 2:45 to 3:00, something is definitely wrong with your form.
Also try rowing strapless. This will be difficult to do if you do not have somewhat decent form as your feet will tend to come off the foot stretchers and you feel like you are going to fall off the back of the erg.
At the catch, concentrate on keeping your arms locked, your torso fixed and do not start to use your back until after the handle passes your knees. If you start bringing your arms and back into the movement to early, you are not getting the power out of your legs.
Whatever you decide to do, I hope your injury recovers quickly.
Rich
It sucks to be injured but at least you have found some alternative excercises. I assume your intent is to return to running once your achiles is better and do not intend to row long term.
That said, being a former runner who converted to rowing because of a back problem, I would suggest looking at using an eliptical trainer for your cross training while injured. Also pool running if that is an option to you. Both of these activities more closely simulate running movement. The one caveat though is that the eliptical may bother your achiles in which case it would not be an option for you.
If you want to continue the rowing while you are injured , I would suggest lowering your SPM down to 20 - 22 and working at a level that keeps your HR in your aerobic zone. If you are doing 28 SPM and your 500M splits are 2:45 to 3:00, something is definitely wrong with your form.
Also try rowing strapless. This will be difficult to do if you do not have somewhat decent form as your feet will tend to come off the foot stretchers and you feel like you are going to fall off the back of the erg.
At the catch, concentrate on keeping your arms locked, your torso fixed and do not start to use your back until after the handle passes your knees. If you start bringing your arms and back into the movement to early, you are not getting the power out of your legs.
Whatever you decide to do, I hope your injury recovers quickly.
Rich
40 YO 6'1" 180 lbs. Rowing at 7,000 Ft.
SB's
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1213378765.png[/img]
SB's
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1213378765.png[/img]
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Pete Marston
- Paddler
- Posts: 39
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 4:00 pm
As the others have said, don't get caught up in the misguided belief that higher stroke rate is better. The pace / 500m, or watts readout, shows the power you're putting into the handle, and this is the measure of how hard you're working.
You aim is obviously to keep your CV condition while you recover from your injury, and the C2 is a great machine for doing that.
Start off at a very low rate, 20-22spm, and really concentrate on technique. Split the stroke right up into three components to begin with - legs, back, arms. From the start of the stroke, when you are at the front end of the machine, use your body in that order to move the handle - push with the legs, then when they're straight, lean with your back (from about 10degrees forward to 10 degrees back), then pull in the handle with your arms. Then on the recovery, take your time, and reverse this motion, arms straight, then "rock over" at the hips, then slide back up by bending your legs. Practice at the start of each row keeping these three seperate, then start to overlap them slightly. On the drive you want to overlap each stage enough so that the pressure of the handle on your hands feels the same throughout. On the recovery you want to overlap them enough so the speed the handle is moving is constant throughout. The drive should be taking roughly half the time of the recovery at this stage.
Once you've got the hang of this, start to put more power into the stroke. Thing of your body as just an attachment to the handle, with your arms and body being just a chain to attach your (powerful) legs to the handle. Think about trying to push the flywheel end of the machine away from you with your legs - the motion feels like you are trying to almost stand up off the seat.
Remember that the machine is isokenetic - the resistance you feel depends only on how much force you put into the handle - the harder you pull (or rather push with your legs), the more resistance you feel.
Enjoy.
Pete
29, 5'11, 88kg, 2k = 6:11
You aim is obviously to keep your CV condition while you recover from your injury, and the C2 is a great machine for doing that.
Start off at a very low rate, 20-22spm, and really concentrate on technique. Split the stroke right up into three components to begin with - legs, back, arms. From the start of the stroke, when you are at the front end of the machine, use your body in that order to move the handle - push with the legs, then when they're straight, lean with your back (from about 10degrees forward to 10 degrees back), then pull in the handle with your arms. Then on the recovery, take your time, and reverse this motion, arms straight, then "rock over" at the hips, then slide back up by bending your legs. Practice at the start of each row keeping these three seperate, then start to overlap them slightly. On the drive you want to overlap each stage enough so that the pressure of the handle on your hands feels the same throughout. On the recovery you want to overlap them enough so the speed the handle is moving is constant throughout. The drive should be taking roughly half the time of the recovery at this stage.
Once you've got the hang of this, start to put more power into the stroke. Thing of your body as just an attachment to the handle, with your arms and body being just a chain to attach your (powerful) legs to the handle. Think about trying to push the flywheel end of the machine away from you with your legs - the motion feels like you are trying to almost stand up off the seat.
Remember that the machine is isokenetic - the resistance you feel depends only on how much force you put into the handle - the harder you pull (or rather push with your legs), the more resistance you feel.
Enjoy.
Pete
29, 5'11, 88kg, 2k = 6:11
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johnlvs2run
- Half Marathon Poster
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 1:13 pm
- Location: California Central Coast
- Contact:
I disagree with those who say to row at low ratings, which would be fine if you were tall, heavy, or out of shape, but you're a lightweight runner in good shape. Using a low rating, when you don't have the torso and arm length to maintain the fan speed, could be harmful and injurious.
To progress in your rowing, keep the rating up to a comfortable level. Also, this is much better for your fitness over distance.
Your 28 spm is fine.
Along with this, focus on your form, rhythm, and technique, i.e. how smooth and coordinated you can be, keeping your back straight, keeping your arms straight as long as possible etc.
A good exercise is to row for 2 minutes with your arms straight the whole time, alternating with 2 minutes normally, and keep doing this for 30 minutes to an hour. As you do this, focus on merging your form from straight arms style to your normal stroke. This is good for using your legs and having a good body position through the stroke.
To progress in your rowing, keep the rating up to a comfortable level. Also, this is much better for your fitness over distance.
Your 28 spm is fine.
Along with this, focus on your form, rhythm, and technique, i.e. how smooth and coordinated you can be, keeping your back straight, keeping your arms straight as long as possible etc.
A good exercise is to row for 2 minutes with your arms straight the whole time, alternating with 2 minutes normally, and keep doing this for 30 minutes to an hour. As you do this, focus on merging your form from straight arms style to your normal stroke. This is good for using your legs and having a good body position through the stroke.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
28 spm is fine at a higher speed, but at 2:45 to 3:00 minutes it is not.John Rupp wrote:
Your 28 spm is fine.
...
It slower then the speeds ranked in the 70-79 year old women's lightweight for the 5K to 10K.
Slowing down is a good way to be learn technique. But your might want to set the drag factor lower.
you (egreen) are taller then me but at 28 spm I am 1:50-2:00 range.
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johnlvs2run
- Half Marathon Poster
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- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 1:13 pm
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Mine is in the range of 77 to 109 for PB's, usually 82 or so.EGreen wrote:I have been around 105 on the drag. I usually set the resistance to around 5.
105 is good.
That's a good distance pace for 5'6 and 120 pounds.Nosmo wrote:you (egreen) are taller then me but at 28 spm I am 1:50-2:00 range.
I'd pick up the rating and do some faster rowing now and then though.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
Nosmo - I can recall lifting the handle over my kness in both phases of the row. Obviously that is one of my problems.
I just received information from Concept 2 about training. It came with a technique DVD, so hopefully that will help.
I appreciate the advice from all. I do plan on getting back to running here in the next week or so; however, if I can figure out what the heck I'm doing I think rowing could be great for cross training.
I just received information from Concept 2 about training. It came with a technique DVD, so hopefully that will help.
I appreciate the advice from all. I do plan on getting back to running here in the next week or so; however, if I can figure out what the heck I'm doing I think rowing could be great for cross training.
EGreen, I would like to add my 2cents as well, I am a long distance runner first, and also got into rowing because of an injury 3 years ago. I am 5 ft 8 135 pounds, and just turned 50. I run 3 to 4 marathons a year and still can pop one out around 3:10 on a good day weather providing. However, my rowing has never been very fast, I row because I have found that it is a very good full body workout, and it works different muscles in the legs, which gives my legs a break from the pounding that running does. I have done several different types of workouts on the rower to see which was best for my running legs. and of course my heart rate. When I am close to the marathon I have to stop rowing two weeks before the race, as it seems to have a negative effect on my quads. as far as heart rate, rowing is right up there with running. you just have to find out what works best for your type of running. your first step of course is rowing correctly, take heed in the replys as most do know how to row correctly.
As far as my rowing goes, I never go over 50,000 meters a week unless I am not in training for a race. and my pace is usually around 2:00 to 2:10 per 500 meters for 10,000 meters, 30 to 32 spm. I find that for me, those spms are perfect for my heart rate.
The only down side to rowing, it is very addicting. enjoy it.
runr/rowr
As far as my rowing goes, I never go over 50,000 meters a week unless I am not in training for a race. and my pace is usually around 2:00 to 2:10 per 500 meters for 10,000 meters, 30 to 32 spm. I find that for me, those spms are perfect for my heart rate.
The only down side to rowing, it is very addicting. enjoy it.
runr/rowr
I watched the video on technique from Concept yesterday and today. I just got back from the Y, and I rowed 20 minutes, in the mid 2:20's and low 2:30's. Still not fast, but I think a decent improvement. I had a hard time adjusting from how I have been rowing to how the video showed. Overall, I was pleased simply because I kept my SPMs in the low 20's. I still felt like I was using my arms way too much even though I kept them straight till my legs were virtually straight.