Cold Water

[[old] Hal Morgan]

First winter of rowing. I am a novice in the sport. I row a single on a mountain lake. I get in from the beach area in the summer and fall. Now the water is stinking freezing cold to my legs and feet. I will board at the crew dock. My wife told me that hypothermia is going to affect me if I fall in agian. I have tipped over. I can not get back in the boat. I tried and tried with no luck. I just swim it to shore and get back in. I don't like to row near shore. I like to stay at least 50 meters off the bank. How long do I have in cold water? I wear a Life jacket every time I go on the water. So should I hang it up until spring?

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So should I hang it up until spring? </td></tr></table> <br /><br />Hi Hal,<br /><br />I have a similar problem in that the temperatures are below freezing in the mornings now. I decided to hang it up until spring a couple of days ago. I love the C2 and the DVD's by Xeno and the interactive 2K program from the UK website, but even so I'm having terrible withdrawl symptons. Rowing on water is addictive, isn't it?<br /><br />I've only flipped once, and that was at the dock during my first week of sculling. But just because I'm not likely to flip doesn't mean it won't happen. <br /><br />I once watched a very simple demonstration of the effects of cold water. Someone filled a deep fishtank with ice water, and then started to pick up pennies from the bottom of the bowl. After a short time it became just about impossible. That was enough to convice me that I don't want to attempt a capsize drill in cold water. <br /><br />Byron<br />

[[old] bhutz]

Cold water is a serious risk. You should check the actual water temperature of your body of water. I think that you are taking a serious risk if you are unable to re-enter your single. Swimming causes a MUCH faster loss of body temperature. If you are 50m from shore and the water is below 50F you are probably not going to make it.<br /><br />The following link has some good information and some survive ability times, from US Search and Rescue. Note, that the first column is time until unconsciousness if you are in a heat conserving positon(huddled up not moving or swimming).<br /><br /><a href='http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm</a><br /><br />Water Temperature<br /> Exhaustion or Unconsciousness in Expected Survival Time<br /> <br />70–80° F (21–27° C)<br /> 3–12 hours 3 hours – indefinitely<br /> <br />60–70° F (16–21° C)<br /> 2–7 hours 2–40 hours<br /> <br />50–60° F (10–16° C)<br /> 1–2 hours 1–6 hours<br /> <br />40–50° F (4–10° C)<br /> 30–60 minutes 1–3 hours<br /> <br />32.5–40° F (0–44° C)<br /> 15–30 minutes 30–90 minutes<br /> <br /><32° F (<0° C)<br /> Under 15 minutes Under 15–45 minutes<br /><br />stay safe.<br /> Ben

[[old] FrancoisA]

Last Summer, I read <a href='http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/015603 ... 5&v=glance' target='_blank'>Swimming to Antartica</a> by Lynn Cox, which I found fascinating. She has swum in extremely cold water for long distances. One thing I have learned is that you definitely do not want to stay still in cold water, swimming will generate heat and will increase your survival chance. The body adapts to cold water provided you train for it. Body fat makes a huge difference: for insulation and flotation.<br /><br />Once you survive the initial shock of being submerged in frigid water (you are going to be paralysed and unable to breathe for a few seconds and you might panic), swimming 50 meters, if you are a descent swimmer, should be a piece of cake!

[[old] michaelb]

Hmmm, I disagree a bit with what has been said. I come at this from cold water canoeing experience. Simply put, cold water can kill you, and has killed many boaters. A life jacket is not adequate protection, and you can drown in a life jacket easily, and it compromises your swimming ability pretty significantly. If either the water temp or the air temp are in the 50s, you need cold water immersion protection (ie a wet suit or a dry suit). In water temps below 50, survival time can be very short, and there can be involuntary gasp response when the body is immersed in water in the 40s. There have been instances in which people have drowned in water that temp without ever coming to the surface (they went under, gasped, and sunk).<br /><br />Having never rowed, I am not sure how people protect themselves from cold water in a rowing shell. Most kayakers or canoeists would use a dry suit for water temps in the 30-40s, but I couldn't imagine rowing in a dry suit. A wet suit would be pushing it in terms of protection, but would be more realistic for rowing. Hydroskin or "fuzzy rubber" is not considered appropriate for water that cold, but would be much, much, more comfortable.<br /><br />I would do a google search for info on cold water immersion protection. NRS would be good place for buying wetsuits, and they sell hydroskin.<br /><br /><a href='http://www.nrsweb.com/default.asp' target='_blank'>Northwest River Supply</a>

[[old] michaelb]

I do not want to come across as too uptight. I have canoed on flat water with water and air temps in the 50s, without wearing a wet suit. But in those conditions, you have to be aware of the risk you are taking, and generally stay close to shore and avoid padding in waves that could swamp you. Also, flipping a canoe, particularly loaded, if you know what you are doing, is very difficult, but I get the impression that a rowing shell is a little more tippy.

[[old] SlugButt]

I'm inclined to agree strongly with MichaelB. Cold water is deadly, and if Marcel Hacker can flip in a 1x then anyone can. I hadn't flipped while sculling for years and went for an unexpected swim at the end of this summer (hit a lobster bouy at the catch and was in the water before I knew what was happening). Although I've never heard of someone sculling in a wetsuit, if you can get someone to follow you in a launch I think most rowers and scullers consider that to be a good precaution.<br /><br />It takes coordination to get back in a single (keeping the handles together while you thrash yourself back into the shell), and the survival times bhutz listed look like they are only for remaining conscious, not for actually being able to manage something that would require coordination. Time swimming to shore while keeping your boat with you (since everyone says to never leave your boat) would be slooooooow. <br /><br />Anyway, my ulterior motive is that you sound quite dedicated and it would be great to practice with you by erg over the internet!<br /><br />Have fun and stay safe,<br />David<br /><br /><br />

[[old] jamesg]

Hal, the erg was invented so we don't have to freeze in winter, might as well use it. You have a wife too. And of course if it's that cold you can always go cross country skiing, or cycling before the snow falls. Drowning is somewhat unlikely tho you may break a rib or two. Rowing is fine but there's no obligation. We can stay fit even by just walking. If you're in a mountain area you'll have plenty of choice, and you can take the wife with you.

[[old] ancho]

It is very dangerous to row alone in winter, even for experienced rowers.<br />Try to train at times there is someone near, best on a motorboat!<br />If you tipp over, Lifejacket is OK, don't stop moving, and think your life is more valuable than your boat! (even if it's difficult to believe) <br /><br />Take care!!!

[[old] Carl Henrik]

Hi Hal!<br /><br />I tipped over last winter a couple of days after the ice melt. <br /><br />I think you should start to like rowing closer to shore ~20m if you insist on going out in a 1x. <br /><br />If you keep really close to shore your life should be in no danger. Just remember to take a deep breath before you tip over completely. Otherwise your reflex will be to take a breath under water and you may drown. Try keeping you head dry at all times. It is possible even when falling in. <br /><br />If the air temperature is below zero you may be facing damages to your tissues being that wet. Look out for white spots on your skin during your run back. Keep a hand over those areas, do not rub or small ice crystals in your body will destoy your cells. It will be difficult so see these spots in your face though. <br /><br />Keep the rows within 2k or so from the boat house or it will be a long way to run back all soaked. Run inefficiently, meaning you work a lot vertically without creating much drag around your face. If you have a tailwind. try cathing the same speed. <br /><br />Be careful how you tread. You may loose all sensation in your feet. This means you will have less balance and feed back from how you are running. Being in an eager state of mind to get home you may spray an ankle or worse running. <br /><br />Is there not a boat you can use who is easier to get in to from the water? Is there no one you can row with? <br /><br />Do you have a motorboat ready to go out and pick up your rowing shell with?<br /><br />Good luck with making the right decissions!

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Once you survive the initial shock of being submerged in frigid water (you are going to be paralysed and unable to breathe for a few seconds and you might panic), swimming 50 meters, if you are a descent swimmer, should be a piece of cake! </td></tr></table><br /><br />This statement may have a small degree of truth but DO NOT take such a risk. Death by drowning can be initiated by many factors. Even a decent swimmer may have not be able to over come the shock or have a panic attack.<br /><br />GW<br /><br />

[[old] FrancoisA]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Nov 18 2005, 01:44 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Nov 18 2005, 01:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Once you survive the initial shock of being submerged in frigid water (you are going to be paralysed and unable to breathe for a few seconds and you might panic), swimming 50 meters, if you are a descent swimmer, should be a piece of cake! </td></tr></table><br /><br />This statement may have a small degree of truth but DO NOT take such a risk. Death by drowning can be initiated by many factors. Even a decent swimmer may have not be able to over come the shock or have a panic attack.<br /><br />GW <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I agree! That is why I mentioned that you have to train for it, i.e. learn to swim in cold water.<br />One should not underestimate the thermal shock of being suddenly immersed in cold water; even experienced swimmers like Lynne Cox, who has swum a mile in water slightly below 32 F, enters slowly into cold water.<br />Of course, if and when you get out the water, your problems are not over; you will be wet, probably bare feet, and the air will be cold.<br /><br />I would strongly suggest that, under suppervision, you simulate an actual flip over in cold water.<br />

[[old] Exrook]

<!--QuoteBegin-FrancoisA+Nov 17 2005, 10:50 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Nov 17 2005, 10:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Last Summer, I read  <a href='http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/015603 ... 5&v=glance' target='_blank'>Swimming to Antartica</a> by Lynn Cox, which I found fascinating. She has swum in extremely cold water for long distances. One thing I have learned is that you definitely do not want to stay still in cold water, swimming will generate heat and will increase your survival chance. The body adapts to cold water provided you train for it. Body fat makes a huge difference: for insulation and flotation.<br /><br />Once you survive the initial shock of being submerged in frigid water (you are going to be paralysed and unable to breathe for a few seconds and you might panic), swimming 50 meters, if you are a descent swimmer, should be a piece of cake! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Lynne Cox had some uniques physical attributes that allowed her to accomplish her amazing feats. For the rest of us, it is better to follow the advice of the USSARTF in the link provided above. Key info from the site includes:<br /><br />"Immersion in cold water can quickly numb the extremities to the point of uselessness. Cold hands cannot fasten the straps of a lifejacket, grasp a thrown rescue line, or hold onto an over-turned boat. Within minutes, severe pain clouds rational thought. And, finally, hypothermia (exposure) sets in, and without rescue and proper first aid treatment, unconsciousness and death "<br /><br />"Cold water robs the body's heat 32 times faster than cold air. If you should fall into the water, all efforts should be given to getting out of the water by the fastest means possible."<br /><br />"Physical exercise such as swimming causes the body to lose heat at a much faster rate than remaining still in the water. Blood is pumped to the extremities and quickly cooled. Few people can swim a mile in fifty degree water."<br /><br />I was a Naval Flight Officer for 9 years and went through extensive water survival training. Personally, I'd stay off the water during the cold weather unless I had a very good reason to be there.<br /><br />

[[old] FrancoisA]

<!--QuoteBegin-Exrook+Nov 18 2005, 06:25 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Exrook @ Nov 18 2005, 06:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Physical exercise such as swimming causes the body to lose heat at a much faster rate than remaining still in the water.  Blood is pumped to the extremities and quickly cooled.  [right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br />This does not make much sense! It is impossible to stay still in cold water; very quickly one starts to shiver in order to generate heat. I recently swam 4k race in cool water without suffering from hypothermia precisely because I was swimming and not "standing still"! Any experience swimmer will tell you that the only way to survive in cold water is to <b>generate</b> heat by swimming.<br /><br />What are you suggesting to our friend if his shell tip over: to stand still, when he only has to swim 50 meters ?!?<br /><br />

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I recently swam 4k race in cool water without suffering from hypothermia </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />FrancoisA,<br /><br />What was the water temp?<br /><br />GW<br />