Is Erging Inferior To On Water Rowing

[[old] Jason85]

Hi everyone, <br>I've been using a concept 2 erg for a little while, and a few days ago I came across this post on an exercise and fitness related message board that made me think I might be wasting my time erging and if I were to row I should row on the water-"Except for the fact that rowing machines, including Concept II, bear tragically little <br>resemblance to real rowing. Indeed, *real* rowing produces some impressive physiques. <br>It's essentially high-powered weightlifting on a lake. Those lakes will freeze over in <br>Texas before any home rowing machine will deliver anything near the results of team <br>rowing--middling aerobic workouts at best, with a little limited motion in the <br>upperbody. Basically a sham. Cross country skiers seem to wear the fitness badge of <br>honor, but I think amateur/prof'l rowers are probably one of the most bodywide <br>powerful athletes out there. The only thing is, I don't think the events last that <br>long (could be wrong) from an aerobic POV, but I'm sure the training is kick-ass <br>aerobically. The really bad thing about home rowing machines is, that once they fall <br>into inevitable disuse, they don't even make good coat racks. The VersaClimber <br>(Richard Benjamin, in Sleeping wit d'Enemy--really the epitome of a home fitness narcissist-- <br>sorta reminds me of Steve Friedes) is proly the best coat rack on the market--at a <br>mere $800. Actually, the VC is not a bad machine, from a fitness POV. Much better than <br>a home rower. Just sillier. I think a "water rower" (Gym Source) would be a better <br>bet. At $999, a bit above yer budget, but think of all the free clothes washing you'll <br>be able to do--comforters will really up the resistance!" So do you believe what this guy says is true at least to some extent as far as on water rowing being a superior workout to erging? Thanks

[[old] Carl Henrik]

That guy seems a bit unbalanced...in his POV. As you can hear he has little experience with rowing and erging, he doesn't even know how long the events last. <br><br>Erging is not inferior in physical regards to on water rowing. Neither does the erg fall into inevitabel disuse, ask anyone on this forum . <br><br>Erging is a great way to promote overall body strength and aerobic fitness. <br><br>The water rower he refers to is just another erg like the one from Concept2, but it uses a water tank instead of air for resistance and has a different esthetics. Resemblance to on water rowing for the water rower and the c2 erg is about the same (low techniqually, but the best out there physiqually).

[[old] remador]

Hello,<br><br>I do not agree with Carl. Water rowing envolves a lot more muscles in your workout, and it does it in a pretty much more intense way. Try to put yourself in a single scull and row hard for 30'' and you will immediately understand what I am talking about. For example, pectorals, triceps and delthoids are by far more used, not to mention trunk stabilizers... even erector spinae: if you're used to row in an erg and go to the water, make sure you don't hurt yourself. It is not the same thing to pull an oar in an instable shell, in circle, an oar that is not paralell to the water, than in a room, straigthly. Another example is sweep rowing: your triceps have to do a lot of work to stabilize the oar in the water, mostly your inner arm (you should row to both sides). And, of course, breathing outdoors is another dimension!<br><br>Nevertheless, indoor rowing is the best workout you can make off-water (in water, there's also swimming, although I do not have data to compare this with erging). <br><br>And, oh, oarsmen are much stronger and resistant than cross-country skiers: you just have to look at them! <br><br>Sorry if I was not very "analitical", but I think there is no need to get it technical! <br><br>Good workout!

[[old] Carl Henrik]

Remador,<br><br>While the on water rowing involves a little more muscle movements, the question was wether the erg was "inferior" and not if it engaged less muscle mass.<br><br>In the circumstances described I interpreted this "inferior" term as lack of muscle develepment and CV fitness from doing it. Just enganging a muslce won't necessarily lead to any of the above.<br><br>Pulling on an erg may actually promote larger oxygen uptake and muscle development since you may engage the big leg muscles with a "100% of stroke power" at the catch. This you do not do in on water rowing where you gradually build up pressure.<br><br>Also on the erg you are in no way inhibited in your training of these two attibutes due to bad balance/weather/technique/relaxation as you may be on water. <br><br>However, since there are just a little bit more muscles involved sculling or sweeping and the fact that it's harder to keep relaxed during recovery and pull I'd say they are about even. <br><br>Erging is hover a much smaller disciplin than rowing. It takes a lot more to become a good rower and it also give more back to you. But that is not how I interpreted what Jason meant with inferior.

[[old] Cran]

depends what fitness reults you want, if all you want is fitness then I'd say erging is probably better.<br><br>Water rowing and sculling is good, but I still do ergs as well, and I think the ergs are the main contibutor to my fitness and endurance whilst the water work is more about technique.<br><br>I do prefer training on the water, but you can erg without rowing a lot easier than you can row without erging. I know a lot of rowers who don't use ergs, but most of them would be fitter if they did...<br><br>depends what training you do as well... if you are on the water 90 mins a day but only do 10 mins on an erg then yeah, it's kind of obvious the water stuff will be doing more for you, but I'd say that 90 mins on an erg every day is pretty good for fitness.

[[old] PaulH]

I think one important benefit of on-water rowing is that it tends to be done with other people, and for many that can provide an incentive to work harder. Aside from that the trade-off between using more supportive muscles on the water against being able to thrash a little harder without capsizing on an erg makes the two about equal. So long as you're using a quality machine of course!<br><br>Cheers, Paul

[[old] Jason85]

Hey guys,<br>Yeah you all pretty much answered my question, what I meant by "inferior" was inferior in the sense of the physical results and attributes developed by rowing, aerobic and anaerobic strength and endurance, muscular strength and endurance, muscle development, power, not just 1 or 2 of these but all. Sorry if I didn't make that clear but from your replies I'm getting that erging and water rowing are pretty much equal in this regard.

[[old] Carl Henrik]

If anyone has any more questions on the difference between the Concept2 ergometer and the water rower I have taken the liberty to visualize.<br><br><br>Water rower<br><img src='http://www.waterrower.com/graphics_libr ... 59_300.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br><br><br>Concept2 erg<br><img src='http://www.concept2.com/almanac/media/matthias.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[[old] remador]

Well, I guess I wasn't quite clear, also.<br><br>Carl: I am sure erg's are very, very good machines, and I don't think there is any other machine that might be comparable. Nevertheless, I think that is not true you use more of your legs on an erg than on water: if you say "Well, many rowers don't, because of their poor technique", ok! But, I'll give you an example: I re-started rowing some time ago, and I worked out on tanks and ergs; when I got into a single-scull 1) my back was injured, because of the leg strength I was applying; 2) my leg press max. strength dramatically increased. <br><br>Please don't misunderstand me... I love rowing ergometers!<br><br>On the other hand, about getting fiter on an erg (not for Carl): of course it looks easier, since you don't have all those technique issues, and, besides, you can control your train just by looking at the numbers... on water, you'll have to get it through your "feeling". <br><br>Please don't think I am that kind of guy that comes here to say: Oh, yeah, you are good, but we, on-water oarsmen, are better!" (I don't even know if you all practice on water...)<br><br>I am just transmitting my personal experience and some knowledge I have been trying to get on this.<br><br>Well, just keep discussing this! <br><br>PS: Before I forget: erging and rowing? Maybe we should not be talking about "superior" or "inferior" workouts, but about complementary things.

[[old] Guido B]

I suppose the real thing always beats the fitness equipement. So rowing should be a better workout then erging. <br><br>There only two rowing clubs I know of here. I have to go there at the hours they train or have to buy my proper scull and find a way to get it to the water. The only place where you can do some rowing is the canal , not a beautiful scenery. <br><br>On the other hand there's a huge gym across from where I work. The erg is probably the best fitness equipement they have. I work more muscles then on a treadmill or any other cardio-equipment. I can log in my meters and see my ranking to motivate me. <br><br>As far as I'm concerned, erging is an awesome workout that's very accesible to me, even it it doesn't compare to other similar trainings like on water rowing, swimming or martial arts training. <br><br>

[[old] TedCG]

I'm not an on-water rower. But 2 years ago, I almost bought a single-shell. This thing was about 1 foot wide and twenty feet long, sleek and shiny, with a sliding seat, and outriggers to hold the rowlocks, and the longest oars I've ever seen. It looked fast just sitting on the auction block.<br>But if I'd bought it, it would be sitiing out in the barn, next to the two Laser sailboats, and the kayaks, and the canoe, that get wet about once a year. <br>Meanwhile, my C2 gets soaked with saltwater just about every day.<br>

[[old] jacobavera2]

hi on the question of erg vs water. in my personal experiance of rowing a 12' rowboat 2 miles a day for a while, an erg feels like a fancy way to stretch and thats at max setting. if you get in a real rowboat say wood or aluminum and row hard for 15 or 30 min your stomach will hurt for 3 days. I'm not knocking concept2 I just wish they would add some more resistance levels to their machine allowing for us slow but strong rowers<br>p.s. eating regularly I lost 30 pounds in a month when I started to have to row a mile each way. thats 250 pounds to 220 pounds in a month. cheers jake

[[old] remador]

That's true, jacobavera2.<br><br>Nevertheless, there is a frequent misunderstanding about on-water rowing: people who start doing it usually spend months to achieve some technical improvement, and when they can start rowing harder they have allready a long on-water adaption. Last year, I re-started rowing; after doing a lot of erg, tanks, running and weightlifting, I went to the water, on a janousek carbon single-scull. As I had the proper technique allready (I rowed ten years ago, but there was still here), I just had to check my balance in the fisrt couple of days, and I started pushing hard. I couldn't believe it! My legs, my arms, my trunk, allready in good shape, became even harder and lean! Besides, I was exhausted every day, as I leaved the water. Finally, it is so demanding that I injured my lower back muscles almost immediatly...<br><br>I don't agree with you about the problem of resistance - you can put all your effort in an erg with the lowest damper setting - you probably will have to be real strong to do that, actually!<br><br>Well... see ya!

[[old] davidmiller]

I train on the erg and on the water about 5 days a week. In my experience I am wayyyy more sore the day after a long and intense on water workout then I am the day after a long and intense erg workout, especially my abs and lower back. It requires a lot more muscle to stabilize a boat than it does an erg, thus you are recieving a more complete workout on the water than on the erg.

[[old] jamesg]

There's only one thing better than listening to the bubbles under the boat as I scull at 7am on a Spring morning on my personal and dead flat lake... and it's not erging.