How Do I Burn Fat Most Efficiently?

[old] Mark Keating · Post by **[old] Mark Keating** » July 8th, 2004, 10:35 am

What is the minimum duration and what intensity (UT2, UT1, AT, etc.) should I work at to lose body fat most efficiently? I currently row 3 to 5 times per week and I wanted to substitute one of my existing 20 minute workouts with a good fat burner. Thanks for the suggestions. Mark

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 8th, 2004, 1:51 pm

The approach would primarily depend if you just want to burn fat for aesthetic reasons or if you are also burning fat with an eye toward performance on the erg. If you are trying to burn fat for purely aesthetic reasons. Here's what you do. 1. short, high-intensity erg pieces (over 80% max HR) work best at overrall fat burning. It's much more efficient than low intensity steady state. Shoot for anywhere between 14-22 minutes. Try high-rate pyramids, castles.. etc. 2. you should be lifting weights - use low volume, heavy weight. (where you can't do more than 6-7 reps with good form.. however, you have to be able to do at least 4 reps or it's too heavy! ) Don't worry, you won't add any muscle - you won't be eating enough calories to add muscle mass. However, you need to do this to retain as much muscle mass as possible. This should prevent you from losing power and strength along with the weight. This will also ensure that you are primarily burning fat, and not losing a lot of muscle mass in the process. Not all weight loss is the same. You want to lose fat. Not weight. Losing weight usually implies losing a ton of muscle mass, which what we don't want. Try to hit the iron 2-3x week. Use free weights as much as possible. Stick to the basic exercises. They hit the most muscle groups. You can use the rowing specific exercises if you want. 3. Keep your carbs low - but not Atkins low - low-glycemic carbs at least 100g a day but no more than 200g/day. Ideally you want to bracket your carb sessions around your workouts, so you're not flat during your workouts. Natural Oatmeal, brown rice, and sweet potatoes/yams are your best carb friends. 4. When you are not eating carbs load up on leafy greens (especially leaf spinach). You'll need the fiber and it keeps you satiated. 5. A gallon of water a day. 6. Supplement with one tablespoon of flax seed oil and Natural Vitamin E every night. It's good medicine for endurance athletes on calorie restricted diets. 7. Protein: about a 1g/pound of bodyweight.. need this much for repair and maintenance. The body will probably use some of it as fuel as well.. but you need to overcompensate for the extra activity and recovery process your body will be performing. If you are burning fat as part of preparation for rowing competition your training parameters and diet will have to be adjusted depending on your goals and the amount of time you spend training. However, if you're in that boat, you'll be training so much you'll end up lean over time no matter what you eat (unless, of course, all you do is main-line fast food!) Hope this helps, D

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » July 8th, 2004, 8:57 pm

Dr. K.C.Goh recently gave a quite different answer to this question, citing the medical literature. I believe you would find his answer instructive, if you can track it down. Simply stated (perhaps an oversimplification) he says long, slow rows are the best way to burn fat. Tom Rawls

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 8th, 2004, 9:47 pm

well yes, you( or rather Dr. Goh) are/is right, but then again I'm right too..... anything that causes a negative caloric balance (i.e. burn more calories than you ingest) will cause you to lose weight. but like I said before, not all weight loss is the same! long slow rowing on calorie restricted diets are a sure-fire way to lose a lot of muscle mass along with the fat. The loss of muscle mass will make you lighter but it will also make you slower. The ideal is to lose as much fat as possible while retaining most of the muscle mass you now have. The only way to do this effectively is to do something that stimulates the fast-twitch muscle fibers. The only way to do this is to either do high-intensity pieces at or near AT or to do heavy weight-training a couple of times a week, dividing it in such a way that you hit all the major body parts once a week. Under this theory you don't have to thrash your muscles like a bodybuilder would, merely go heavy enough to stimulate them so that you retain your strength as much as possible while you are cutting the calories necessary to lose weight. What I mean by heavy lifting is about 4 worksets for the smaller muscle groups like arms and shoulders and 6-10 worksets for the bigger muscle groups like back and legs at the rep ranges I outlined in my first post... Ideally, if you want to race, either on the water or on an erg, you would also want to be on the leaner side, your body is more efficient in processing oxygen the leaner you get. I believe a top-condition rower is optimally at around 6-8% bodyfat. (think the guys that run the 400m in track )

[old] tlsully · Post by **[old] tlsully** » July 9th, 2004, 12:02 pm

Lately, I've been concentrating on aerobic exercise and have neglected my weights - in part because I'm too tired to row after lifting and too tired to lift after rowing. I've noticed that my strength has declined (by body fat monitor tells me I've lost weight, but gained percentage body fat). My plan is now this: 3 days / week just row; 2 days / week just lift; 1 day / week lift light weights then row. After about 6 weeks I'll be able to report whether or not I lose weight and retain/gain strength.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 9th, 2004, 1:33 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Lately, I've been concentrating on aerobic exercise and have neglected my weights - in part because I'm too tired to row after lifting and too tired to lift after rowing.  </td></tr></table> Rowing is too strenuous to combine with lifting in the same workout. It is impossible to achieve the highest intensity for both in the same workout. One, if not both, will inevitably suffer. I do split training. I lift in the mornings before work, and erg at night after work but before going home. I think it's the best way to go. Besides you should give at least 8 hours of gap between heavy lifting and hard-core cardio like rowing for recovery purposes. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I've noticed that my strength has declined (by body fat monitor tells me I've lost weight, but gained percentage body fat). </td></tr></table> You are experiencing the phenomenon known as "skinny fat", i.e. the scale says you are "skinny" but the calipers say the complete opposite. This is because muscle is more readily available source of energy than fat. The body being an efficient machine will first burn that which is more readily available or easier to burn (in this case muscle protein which only makes the body burn 4 calories) as opposed to body fat (which takes 9 calories to burn) - this is why I am positive that more than 50% of your total weight loss probably in the form of lean muscle mass loss and not body fat. This is why you lost weight, but yet your b.f. % went up. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> My plan is now this: 3 days / week just row; 2 days / week just lift; 1 day / week lift light weights then row. After about 6 weeks I'll be able to report whether or not I lose weight and retain/gain strength.  </td></tr></table> Lifting light weights is a waste of time. Lifting for rowers, should be heavy, short, and sweet (i.e. very intense). You want to select exercises that will stimulate as many muscles as possible, and use a weight heavy enough to stimulate them in the shortest amount of time possible. Remember the point of the lifting is to remind your body that it has use for the Type B fast twitch fibers, and you are basically tricking it into finding alternative sources of energy, i.e body fat. You should try the split style. and do 5-6 sessions on the erg and then do a double split on the 2-3 days you lift. I think you'll notice that your strength will begin to go up and you will start to look much leaner and defined. Besides contrary to what most coaches believe the stronger you are the more potential you have to go fast.

[old] lowwall · Post by **[old] lowwall** » July 9th, 2004, 3:04 pm

Diesel, interesting input. I'm also trying to lose fat for "purely aesthetic reasons." I don't erg competitively, just for the exercise. Could you elaborate on the high intensity pieces? For example, can these be done at the end (or in the middle) of a long erg session? Each week, I typically do 5 or 6, 60+ minutes rows at around a 2:00 pace, would a 45 minute row followed by a 15 minute pyramid do the trick? Also, do you think high intensity erg sessions are enough by themselves? I've been wary of doing weights after injuring my shoulder due to ignorant coaching back in college. I have worked with a trainer to try to become better balanced (i.e., not just erging muscles), but we did lighter weights, typically 3 sets of 12 reps with failure coming on the 8-10th rep in the last set. Alex

[old] Janice · Post by **[old] Janice** » July 9th, 2004, 3:29 pm

Based purely on my own experience, I'd have to disagree that long, steady state workouts decress muscle mass. I've lost a great deal of weight and picked up a fair amount of muscle just by rowing and cross training (walking up hill, cross trainer, and biking). Suppose it depends on how much you have to lose and what your fitness level is.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 9th, 2004, 6:28 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Janice @ Jul 9 2004, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>  </td></tr></table> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Based purely on my own experience, I'd have to disagree that long, steady state workouts decress muscle mass. I've lost a great deal of weight and picked up a fair amount of muscle just by rowing and cross training (walking up hill, cross trainer, and biking). Suppose it depends on how much you have to lose and what your fitness level is. </td></tr></table> Well Janice, I would disagree with you for a couple of reasons. 1. You're a woman. Not to be facetious, of course, I mean PHYSIOLOGICALLY, you're a woman. I should have prefaced my tips in saying this is what MEN should do if they want to lean out. My approach works because it does a lot to stimulate Testosterone and Human Growth Hormone production in the body. The stuff that makes men, men and keeps the muscles big and us lads looking young! 2. In your case, I would ask you how much training you did before you started rowing, specifically how much upper body work did you do before you started rowing? I'm assuming your increase in muscle mass was your body's natural adaptive response to the new stimulus of erging.

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » July 9th, 2004, 7:28 pm

Diesel-- According to what I have read re the physiology of rowing, it is slow twitch fibers that do almost all the work, not fast-twitch. Have a look at this material on rowing physiology, which also has material on weight lifting and rowing. Elite rowers appear to have an uncommonly high proportion of slow twitch fiber. Fast-twitch bulk appears to be of only modest value. <a href='http://home.hia.no/%7Estephens/rowing.htm' target='_blank'>http://home.hia.no/%7Estephens/rowing.h ... br> Tom Rawls

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 9th, 2004, 10:26 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (TomR/the elder @ Jul 9 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Diesel-- According to what I have read re the physiology of rowing, it is slow twitch fibers that do almost all the work, not fast-twitch. Have a look at this material on rowing physiology, which also has material on weight lifting and rowing. Elite rowers appear to have an uncommonly high proportion of slow twitch fiber. Fast-twitch bulk appears to be of only modest value. <a href='http://home.hia.no/%7Estephens/rowing.htm' target='_blank'>http://home.hia.no/%7Estephens/rowing.h ... br> Tom Rawls  </td></tr></table> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> According to what I have read re the physiology of rowing, it is slow twitch fibers that do almost all the work, not fast-twitch. Have a look at this material on rowing physiology, which also has material on weight lifting and rowing. Elite rowers appear to have an uncommonly high proportion of slow twitch fiber. Fast-twitch bulk appears to be of only modest value.  </td></tr></table> Well, of course, that would stand to make perfect sense given the amount of long distance pieces rowers have to log in order to build up the endurance to race the 2k. But the original point of my post was in response to the question "how to efficiently remove bodyfat" without losing a significant amount of muscle mass in the process. The only way to effectively do that without sacrificing a ton of muscle mass and strength is to stimulate the fast-twitch fibers. Bodyweight is not an absolute number. % b.f. is a more important indicator. What would you rather be. 220 at 12% b.f. or 220 at 6% b.f. All other variables being equal - the oarsman with the lower body fat percentage will perform better than the one with the higher bodyfat. Why? he will have more of an advantage vis-a-vis oxygen consumption and theoretically he would have a slightly higher VO2 Max = he would therefore be able to hold lower splits/higher ratings a bit longer than his fatter counterpart.. Also the higher proportion of lean mass would indicate that the leaner oarsman would probably be a bit stronger too, thus capable of producing more watts/stroke. Which over the 2K distance becomes a huge advantage. I hope that clarifies what I was getting at a bit more.

[old] Mark Keating · Post by **[old] Mark Keating** » July 9th, 2004, 11:15 pm

I have been away for a couple of days, so I have just caught up on the discussion surrounding my question. Thanks to all for the input. A couple of additional questions:<ul><li>What is meant by pyramid, castle training, etc.? I have read several posts regarding this type of training but have yet to understand what it means.</li><li>The C2 manual refers to "the wave principle of training" - what is it and are there any links where I can read more about it?</li></ul>Thanks again, Mark

[old] Bayko · Post by **[old] Bayko** » July 10th, 2004, 7:30 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Janice @ Jul 9 2004, 07:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Based purely on my own experience, I'd have to disagree that long, steady state workouts decress muscle mass. I've lost a great deal of weight and picked up a fair amount of muscle just by rowing and cross training (walking up hill, cross trainer, and biking). Suppose it depends on how much you have to lose and what your fitness level is. </td></tr></table> I'm in some agreement here. When I was drafted into the Army and went to Basic Training at Fort Dix our company was made up of men that ranged from skinny little guys like me, through nearly perfect physical specimens, to nearly obese guys. For two months we all did the same training, ate the same foods at the same mess hall, and slept the same hours. Us skinny guys put weight on and got stronger and the overwieght guys dropped large amouts of fat and gained a lot of endurance. What we start off with somewhat determines what our results are likely to be. Rick

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 10th, 2004, 9:54 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> [*]What is meant by pyramid, castle training, etc.? I have read several posts regarding this type of training but have yet to understand what it means. </td></tr></table> Castle = pick a series of ratings and do them for a set interval. You could do a 20-24 castle like this... 2mins at 20spm up to 24spm for 2mins back down to 20spm for two mins; back up to 24 for two mins. The constant back and forth is murder on the CV system, which is why it's so effective. Pyramids= basically the same thing, except you would do 18 to 20 to 22 to 24 to 26 back down to 24 to 22 to 20 to 18 and repeat ad nauseum... you can do any of these with whatever rating you want. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> [*]The C2 manual refers to "the wave principle of training" - what is it and are there any links where I can read more about it? </td></tr></table> If I'm not mistaken "wave training" is similar to periodization training where you have set intensities and you have periods where you are doing specific types of training. For example one week you do light, the next you do medium volume, and the next you would do a heavy volume week and repeat. Anyone out there correct me if I'm wrong on this or has more info. A good book on periodization (and general training) is "Periodization of Training" by Tudor Bompa. He used to be a coach with the Romanian rowing program back in the day. I think he teaches in Canada these days.

[old] debs · Post by **[old] debs** » July 10th, 2004, 1:05 pm

Below are are URLs of a few articles about doing intervals for fat loss. Go to cbass.com and you will also see testimonials of success stories etc In the past year or so I've ran into many articles suggesting that doing intervals can improve fat loss. Intervals increase your metabolism for hours after you exercise - but even during exercise intervals increase your heartrate. That is - after you do just one or two intervals, for the rest of your exercise session your heart will be beating significantly faster than it otherwise would have had you not done any intervals . Intervals also help to build muscle, which helps to burn fat. About a year or so ago I read in the newpaper that some of the larger gyms now have combined 1-hour cardio / interval classes (that is, some folks are on a treadmill, some on a bike, some on an erg etc) in which the class members all do intervals at the same time with an instructor timing interval periods and rest periods. Each class member had been pre-tested to find out their max heart rate etc. During one interval the instructor might have members shoot for 90% max, and during another interval the instructor might have members strive for 95 max etc There were many testimonials from these class members on both weight loss and fitness improvement. Eg folks had lost those last few pounds, and/or runners had improved their timings etc. I noticed my gym had an interesting cardio class scheduled this week - the title make me wonder if the class might be teaching this same sort of thing. Here are URLS on intervals. Search if you have the time and you'll likely find more literature. <a href='http://cbass.com/INTERVAL.HTM' target='_blank'>http://cbass.com/INTERVAL.HTM</a>. (According to this article, studies show that "short intervals (30-90 seconds) produced substantially more fat loss for each calorie burned exercising") <a href='http://cbass.com/FAQ.HTM#Is%20it%20true' target='_blank'>http://cbass.com/FAQ.HTM#Is%20it%20true</a> - notice - the total fat calories burned during low intensity and high intensity exercise was the same but total calories burned during high intensity exercise was highter <a href='http://cbass.com/FATBURN.HTM' target='_blank'>http://cbass.com/FATBURN.HTM</a> - be sure to read the section WHAT ABOUT FAT LOSS