Ideas for an Electrolyte Powder

[mdpfirrman]

Been brainstorming since yesterday. I work at a computer and couldn't see the screen for nearly an hour (blurred vision). Made an appointment with an eye doctor that I see on occasion (for glaucoma screening) worried that my eyes were worsening. Turns out it was the onset of a migraine headache from being dehydrated. I drink TONS of water but the eye doctor, who's also a runner, said I'm probably not getting enough electrolytes. I eat bananas, nuts and avocados but perhaps with all the rowing (and it's not uncommon for me to lose 3 lbs of sweat during a rowing workout) I do need more electrolytes.

My wife has fibromyalgia and is VERY hyper sensitive to chemicals. I don't want to pay an arm and a leg for coconut water or use cheap Gatorade with all the chemicals and dies in it (or sweeteners or sugars). I was looking into buying a bag or two of bulk coconut water powder from Nuts.com (they sell half pound bags for around $9 American), which isn't cheap but I could use that for my "base" in a homemade electrolyte solution. I know you want potassium and probably magnesium too. Anyone here experiment with that? I could use some help if you have any experience in either chemistry or making your own electrolyte solution. I'm trying to make something that all in my family could use (my son is heavy into Muay Thai right now too so he's interested in it for himself). Really top quality ones are like 50 cents a serving - perhaps I'll end up doing that but I like the idea of controlling what I put in it.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

Being dehydrated is about water, not about electrolytes.

We can thank Gatorade and the multi-billion dollar sports drink industry for the misinformation that abounds regarding hydration and electrolytes. If you were having electrolyte problems, such as hyponatremia, you'd have severe cramps in ALL your muscles.

When you are dehydrated, the concentration of electrolytes in your bloodtream is too high, not too low. You're only compounding the problem if you drink a product with more electrolytes in it. This is why Gatorade and other sports drinks make you thirsty - they don't really quench your thirst whatsoever. The concentration of electrolytes in your blood is much lower than the concentration in sports drinks. Again, thank the multi-billion dollar sports drink industry for the spread of lies and misinformation regarding this.

If you're dehydrated, drink water.

If you have a free hour or two of time this weekend, give this excellent website a read: http://sportsscientists.com/2007/10/flu ... -interest/

[Gammmmo]

I'm not so sure. Have a look at 2 time Ironman World Champion Chris McCormack's book "I'm here to win" and the difference between hydrating at the more superficial blood plasma level and at the muscle level....

[joe80]

I've been using much the same concoction for the past fifty years of distance running and, more recently, erging. It's proved to be palatable in runs up to 100km and 24 hours on the rower.

I make up a 5-8% solution of sugar either by adding sugar to water 50-80 grammes per litre. Recently, this has been achieved by diluting fruit drinks or cordials in accordance with the information on their labels. For example, diluting orange juice equally with water gets you a concoction in the 5-8% range. To this I add a level teaspoon of losalt, a product that contains sodium and potassium chloride and which is designed to reduce sodium intake when taken with food. In an erg marathon, I drink 1.5 - 2 litres, depending on the temperature. I still lose weight but this helps to combat dehydration.

The composition of sweat is quite variable, person to person. On a hot day, I end up with crystals of salt on my shoulders and white deposits on my kit. Using this simple concoction, I have never suffered from cramp, not even during a 1000km in a week trial.

Can't claim any particular expertise beyond a degree in biochemistry and a life-long interest in exercise physiology.

Regards,

Joe

[mdpfirrman]

Being dehydrated is about water, not about electrolytes.

We can thank Gatorade and the multi-billion dollar sports drink industry for the misinformation that abounds regarding hydration and electrolytes. If you were having electrolyte problems, such as hyponatremia, you'd have severe cramps in ALL your muscles.

When you are dehydrated, the concentration of electrolytes in your bloodtream is too high, not too low. You're only compounding the problem if you drink a product with more electrolytes in it. This is why Gatorade and other sports drinks make you thirsty - they don't really quench your thirst whatsoever. The concentration of electrolytes in your blood is much lower than the concentration in sports drinks. Again, thank the multi-billion dollar sports drink industry for the spread of lies and misinformation regarding this.

If you're dehydrated, drink water.

If you have a free hour or two of time this weekend, give this excellent website a read: http://sportsscientists.com/2007/10/flu ... -interest/

My response to the eye doc was "I drink a gallon a day", which I do. I easily consume a gallon of water a day (or more). I keep a quart of ice water next to me and drink all afternoon. The night before I had the migraine, I easily drank a half gallon of water. That's why I ask. I don't know of many people that even drink near as much as I do in water.

Thanks for the read. I'll look at it.

[joe80]

My opinion would reinforce that of your physician. Low sodium, or hyponatremia, can be a real problem for inexperienced marathon runners. They can take the advice about drinking lots of water to such an extent that they end up with dangerously diluted sodium levels. This article may be helpful:

http://www.medicinenet.com/hyponatremia/article.htm

Regards,

Joe

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

Thanks for the read. I'll look at it.

Definitely do and think it over. I don't like getting into scientific arguments around here because there's so much ingrained misinformation that it becomes impossible to actually have conversations about it. That's why I shared the link and I invite people to take a look.

The problem is that many "experts" out there don't actually know what they're talking about. I compare it to the widespread myth about lactic acid - everyone seems to think lactic acid causes pain, when in reality it does no such thing. But you can find countless experts and books that make this claim because no one ever bothers to actually learn the truth. Thankfully, more and more people are finally starting to understand what lactic acid is and isn't and what effect it actually has on the body.

Unfortunately in the case of hydration you have huge companies worth billions of dollars that fund their own research facilities and generate (biased) research. Thankfully no such thing exists for lactic acid. Much harder to know the real truth when you're going up against billion-dollar behemoths.

[mdpfirrman]

My opinion would reinforce that of your physician. Low sodium, or hyponatremia, can be a real problem for inexperienced marathon runners. They can take the advice about drinking lots of water to such an extent that they end up with dangerously diluted sodium levels. This article may be helpful:

http://www.medicinenet.com/hyponatremia/article.htm

Regards,

Joe

Thanks Joe, I'll certainly look at that too. I will say today I had one of the better Steady State rows I've had in a while. Only thing different is after feeling bad all day yesterday (I normally eat lower carb which also I've read can affect your potassium and magnesium / sodium levels among other things) was eat around three servings of sweet potato chips with sea salt. I felt great today rowing. I've been very draggy lately.

[jackarabit]

Anyone have experience with Concentrace, liquid concentration of trace minerals alledged to occur naturally in the Great Salt Lake? I bought to add to a water kefir recipe. The kefir "seeds" and the fermented sugar solution that feeds them both lost their appeal to me after a few generations and most of an 8 oz bottle remains. Recommended for "remineralzing" reverse osmosis water.

[jamesg]

I'm trying to make something that all in my family could use

Cookery books have lots of ideas. Try Mediterranean style based on vegetables, oil and so on. You can't beat real eating with chemistry.

As an example only, a daily dose of minestrone would be a good start. Just chop up everything edible that you have in the house, fry the onions in oil in a large pot, then add the rest with some salt and water, leave it on the stove covered, low gas or whatever, row or bike for an hour. When you come back add some fresh parsley or suchlike and serve immediately.

The leftover from a double dose can be fridged or frozen for later use, adding water and rice or small pasta as makeweight.

To complete the job, strawberries or peaches and cream are ideal supplements.

[mdpfirrman]

Anyone have experience with Concentrace, liquid concentration of trace minerals alledged to occur naturally in the Great Salt Lake? I bought to add to a water kefir recipe. The kefir "seeds" and the fermented sugar solution that feeds them both lost their appeal to me after a few generations and most of an 8 oz bottle remains. Recommended for "remineralzing" reverse osmosis water.

I haven't Jack, but I did (when researching) find a salt brand (from the Great Salt Lake) called "Real Salt". Found it at my local grocery. It's a really good quality mineral salt with many other minerals in addition to sodium. I did buy some and used it today after rowing (added to some flavored Stevia water).

[mdpfirrman]

I'm trying to make something that all in my family could use

Cookery books have lots of ideas. Try Mediterranean style based on vegetables, oil and so on. You can't beat real eating with chemistry.

As an example only, a daily dose of minestrone would be a good start. Just chop up everything edible that you have in the house, fry the onions in oil in a large pot, then add the rest with some salt and water, leave it on the stove covered, low gas or whatever, row or bike for an hour. When you come back add some fresh parsley or suchlike and serve immediately.

The leftover from a double dose can be fridged or frozen for later use, adding water and rice or small pasta as makeweight.

To complete the job, strawberries or peaches and cream are ideal supplements.

I love to cook James (why my wife said she married me!). Actually, I went to clear out some old V8 Spicy Juice out of the fridge on Saturday and noticed that it had a great amount of sodium as well as potassium (I knew the sodium but not about the potassium). It's actually a pretty nice source of electrolytes.

I eat a ton of veggies in cooking (we believe in a heavy plant based diet) but I've been trying to go a bit lower carb lately. I think that attributed to my dehydration as well.

[mdpfirrman]

As a quick follow up to this post, I ended up concocting my own electrolyte powder. Perhaps it's just the effect of placebo, but I've had a lot more energy and feel a lot less fatigued after hard workouts, especially the next day / morning.

The one I put together wasn't cheap but I put together a blended powder that will last me around a year. Comparable ones online would have cost close to $2 per serving so this ones around 50 cents a serving, so in that regard it's reasonable.

I bought 3 1/2 pounds of dehydrated coconut water, and bulk bags of magnesium glycinate, potassium citrate and calcium orotate. With those, I mixed a powdered bag of "Real Salt", a mineral salt (the sodium part) from the Great Salt Lake. I take around a tsp of this along with a stevia sweetened water squirt bottle (you can get this in around 20 flavors now) and that's it. One 32 oz bottle of this stuff a day (along with plenty of water) and I do feel a lot more energy.

I bought the magnesium, potassium and calcium online in bulk bags (around 1 to 2 lbs each). Same with the Real Salt powder and dehydrated coconut water. It's in a canister on my counter all premixed and just have to take a tsp of the stuff and mix it in water and then add the flavoring. Hopefully no more migraines for me.

[H2O]

I defintely second the idea of making your own powder.
But you need to be careful with the potassium intake -- it can kill you!
I.e. make sure the dose is low enough.
Avoid KCl because of the high proportion of potassium.
Consider small amounts of Potassium iodide (KI) since this has many benefits:
radiation proofing, antifungal, expectorant, treatment for Morgellon's disease.

You don't have to worry as much about the Magnesium and Calcium doses.
What do the experts think of KH2PO4 since phoshorous is also something we need
and the proportion of K is fairly low, so little danger of overdosing.

[mdpfirrman]

I defintely second the idea of making your own powder.
But you need to be careful with the potassium intake -- it can kill you!
I.e. make sure the dose is low enough.
Avoid KCl because of the high proportion of potassium.
Consider small amounts of Potassium iodide (KI) since this has many benefits:
radiation proofing, antifungal, expectorant, treatment for Morgellon's disease.

You don't have to worry as much about the Magnesium and Calcium doses.
What do the experts think of KH2PO4 since phoshorous is also something we need
and the proportion of K is fairly low, so little danger of overdosing.

Thanks. The magnesium bag was very small and I only used half of it. I worked out the portion sizes and they were all less than what the recommended dosage was on each bulk item individually. We use one tsp of the mixture. That's it.