Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

full marathons do not prepare you, whatsoever, for flat out mile efforts. But you propose that, by training for a full marathon, and then sharpening you will pull a world record 2k.

You have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

Yikes, you're _really_ naive.

A clown.

A lot of sprinting never made anyone good at rowing.

In rowing, the one with the best stroke wins.

Good stroking is developed at low rates over long distances, working on the effectiveness and efficiency of your technique.

Rowing is primarily skeletal-motor and technical.

It is only secondarily aerobic.

Rowing well for lightweights is 13 SPI; for heavyweights, 16 SPI.

Sure, in rowing, for lightweights like me, at least, a FM @ 22 spm is a great 2K predictor, if you are willing to train for and race a FM.

To do your best for 2K, you can't omit the rest of what needs to be done.

But really, once you know what you can do for a FM @ 22 spm, there is no more mystery.

You know exactly what you will do for 2K once you are fully prepared for it.

A FM @ 22 spm is done at 2K + 14.

ranger

[mikvan52]

I have developed a calm attitude about ranger boasts....
They are like the seasons: They come and go.

~~ That is all

We should not expect anything but the boasts, returning lie geese flying north.

There will never be ranger appearances fully trained "at all the big ones" (2k indoor regattas)
There will never be ranger at the HOCR (sculling in his 1x)
There will never be distance trials posted
... the list goes on and on.

There will be talk, insults, and pointless hair splitting: What we truly enjoy.

So... let's get back to the show:

Hey ranger!
What's your most current IND_V at any distance? Please post it here...
I'm all ears!

[ranger]

We should not expect anything

What you expect or not has no effect on my rowing, although it has a big effect on yours.

What you expect just reflects your own blindness, weaknesses, rationalizations, mistakes, limitations, etc.

ranger

[PaulH]

We should not expect anything

What you expect or not has no effect on my rowing, although it has a big effect on yours.

What you expect just reflects your own blindness, weaknesses, rationalizations, mistakes, limitations, etc.

ranger

On the other hand what I expect, as we've demonstrated over and over again, is more accurate than what you claim. And I expect that you won't pull a marathon this C2 season.

[JimR]

Rowing is primarily skeletal-motor and technical.

It is only secondarily aerobic.

I bet you could beat all the other 60 LWTs with one lung tied behind your back!

JimR

[redzone]

Rowing well for lightweights is 13 SPI; for heavyweights, 16 SPI.

For anyone new to this garbage, Ranger keeps spouting this rubbish like it's some sort of fact. It isn't. Ranger has plucked these values out of the air. He's done no proper investigation of any sort has been done to arrive at these figures.

Far more importantly though - no coach in the world uses SPI to train their athletes as it is a completely nonsensical value. Ranger believes that achieving a given value for SPI (Watts/SPM) at one rate enables him to row at any other stroke rate with the same Watts/SPM value. It doesn't.

[mikvan52]

We should not expect anything

What you expect or not has no effect on my rowing, although it has a big effect on yours.

What you expect just reflects your own blindness, weaknesses, rationalizations, mistakes, limitations, etc.

ranger

I expected (and posted) that Paul Wenham would kick your scrawny ass back onto the jumbo jet and I was right. You didn't even have the couth to hang around and congratulate him on his victory.
You expected a 6:28 ---or whatever -- a WR... and got a 7:0x.... hmmm...

You are correct about other's expectations of you... no effect whatsoever on your rowing! It's all determined by your age.
You have shown how you get slower each year.

[mikvan52]

Rowing well for lightweights is 13 SPI; for heavyweights, 16 SPI.

For anyone new to this garbage, Ranger keeps spouting this rubbish like it's some sort of fact. It isn't. Ranger has plucked these values out of the air. He's done no proper investigation of any sort has been done to arrive at these figures.

Far more importantly though - no coach in the world uses SPI to train their athletes as it is a completely nonsensical value. Ranger believes that achieving a given value for SPI (Watts/SPM) at one rate enables him to row at any other stroke rate with the same Watts/SPM value. It doesn't.

Maybe, when he's retired, ranger can go back to school and learn something in a new field: MATHEMATICS

[ranger]

no coach in the world uses SPI to train their athletes

Exactly.

Are all of those coaches ever missing out!

That's why, this year, at 60, when I am fully prepared to race, rowing well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.), I am going to pull a 2K, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI, 10 MPS), which will beat the 60s lwt WR by 26 seconds, the 50s lwt WR by 9 seconds, the 40s lwt WR by two seconds, and come within a tick of the 30s lwt American record.

6:16 is right around what Eskild E. pulls for 2K, now that he is 38 years old.

Unprecedented stuff!

You can't do something unprecedented if you prepare for it by just doing what has been done before.

Duh.

That's a no-brainer.

ranger

[JimR]

You can't do something unprecedented if you prepare for it by just doing what has been done before.

Duh.

That's a no-brainer.

You also can't do something unprecedented if you ignore all the problems of the new approach ... and don't follow the plan ... and let things go ... and ignore the interim results.

Duh.

That's a no-brainer.

JimR

[Citroen]

I was a marathon runner for 30 years (20 years old to 50 years old).

Therein lies your problem. Your background is as a marathon runner, tell me, in your prime, how many sub 4 minute miles were you able to run? I would imagine none. That is because full marathons do not prepare you, whatsoever, for flat out mile efforts. But you propose that, by training for a full marathon, and then sharpening you will pull a world record 2k.

You have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

Your reply was based on the assumption that Ranger was telling the truth. He wasn't, it's been discussed (to death) that his marathon running performances were nearly as piss poor as his recent 5K time trials on the ergo.

The only truth is that he has "absolutely no idea" about anything. We've not had the delights of rangerworld maths or physics recently.

[Byron Drachman]

I was a marathon runner for 30 years (20 years old to 50 years old).

Therein lies your problem. Your background is as a marathon runner, tell me, in your prime, how many sub 4 minute miles were you able to run? I would imagine none. That is because full marathons do not prepare you, whatsoever, for flat out mile efforts. But you propose that, by training for a full marathon, and then sharpening you will pull a world record 2k.

You have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

Your reply was based on the assumption that Ranger was telling the truth. He wasn't, it's been discussed (to death) that his marathon running performances were nearly as piss poor as his recent 5K time trials on the ergo.

The only truth is that he has "absolutely no idea" about anything. We've not had the delights of rangerworld maths or physics recently.

Yes, I miss Ranger-physics and your and Nav's translations of Ranger-speak. Did this gem on nutrition during a marathon slip by unnoticed by our hero's devoted followers?

July 28, 2010: I have never hit the wall rowing a FM. I don't even have to drink water along the way. You just pick a pace; hold it, and row.

That is solid advice. When I row a (virtual of course) marathon I don't drink water either. Next time you row a virtual marathon, try doing it without taking in any liquids. I think you'll find it does not make any difference.

[ranger]

his marathon running performances were nearly as piss poor as his recent 5K time trials

Sure, I am a _much_ better rower than runner.

Without having bad legs at all, in rowing, my major strengths are my core, back, and upper body, which are not a factor at all in marathon running.

Anyway, I am too heavy to be an elite marathon runner.

Nonetheless, I am a great rower who could also run 6:00 pace for 20 miles when I was 40, and can also skate, swim, and paddle up a storm.

My father is in the swimming hall of fame.

I don't think that Fleming, Caviston, Hastings, Brook, Cashin, Hendershott, etc., can or could do anything of the sort.

So these things are assets, not liabilies.

Many elite ergers are awkward, specialized athletes who can't do much else at all.

That's not admirable.

It's lamentable.

ranger

[ranger]

You also can't do something unprecedented if you ignore all the problems of the new approach

My training is done.

Fait accompli.

There were no problems.

In 2002-2003, I rowed poorly (10 SPI) at max drag (220+ df.).

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.).

That was the goal of the training.

Now, I am just preparing to race.

The training I have completed is unprecedented.

No veteran, much less a 60s veteran, has ever rowed well at low drag.

No 60s erger, heavyweight or lightweight, has ever come within a lightyear of rowing well.

For instance, in a 60min row, they have (literally) missed it by a mile.

ranger

[kini62]

I was a freestyle sprinter in swimming and ran the half mile on the track, both for about ten years.

I have done zillions of anaerobic interval sessions in my life.

Honestly, though, how can someone with three WR rows on the erg have a problem, any problem at all?

In my first race, when I was 52, I pulled 6:27.5, four seconds under the 50s lwt WR at the time.

ranger

Freestyle sprinter??? Sure OK. Obviously not a very fast "sprinter" or else you'd be posting all your "fast" times. What happened? Too much competition in swimming? WAY, WAY WAY more than in erging.

Same with your marathon running. Couldn't take being mediocre any longer? Again much too much competition for you. No way for you to be anything other than a middling runner. So on to a "sport" with very few participants so it's easier for you to be somewhat successful.

Yea, back when you were 52, 8 years ago you did well, since then nothing more than above average performances. Tried for 5 years to get the 55 2K WR and failed year after year.

Now on to the 60s WR. So far, more EPIC FAILS. So for the last 8 years it's been status quo.

What's next? Competitive poetry? You and 1 other participant?