Battle Of The Giants

[old] Graham Benton · Post by **[old] Graham Benton** » May 28th, 2004, 4:05 pm

Nick, no offence ... I meant paddle by Dwayne's standards. And although my HM and 500m times are quicker, I cannot row 4 mins @ 1:22 which Dwayne has done recently which I think points definitely at sub 5:40.

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » May 28th, 2004, 4:56 pm

4' at 1:22?? It's good to be...Dwayne.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » May 28th, 2004, 7:15 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Graham Benton @ May 28 2004, 02:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Dwayne's training times suggest that he is a sub 5:40 rower already so there is nothing ambitious about him rowing in the Open as only 5 guys have gone sub 5:40 ever. There would be no point someone of his calibre racing in the 40-49. I would be amazed if he didn't want to prove himself against the best in the world rather than paddle to victory in the 40-49. </td></tr></table> Oh! So Dwayne _didn't_ say that he was rowing in the Open. You are just putting words in his mouth? You are just imposing your ambitions on him and acting as though you were him, even though he is 40 and you are 30? Oh! Different matter. Graham, Graham (Sir Pirate, Sir Piate), you (all!) seem to be giving the facts a little "twist"! I thought _I_ was the one who was tweaking the facts, being odd, turning orange in a bushel of green apples! Guess not! Well, I'll be damned. Rogus? Rogus? Where are you? How do I "get along" with those who make it all up as they go along? Drat. I guess I'll just have to be "different." ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » May 28th, 2004, 7:41 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Graham Benton @ May 29 2004, 08:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Nick, no offence ... I meant paddle by Dwayne's standards.  </td></tr></table> We know you meant no offence Graham ....... I think that some of us 'older' rowers are getting tired of some people making us out to be something less than we are and wanting to give us helping hands by making adjustments for our passing years. I look at your achievements to date and Dwaynes and others and revel in all your ability but when I sit on the erg I am more likely to be motivated by Nick's achievents of late, not because they are 'possibly' achievable for me and yours are not but because I can relate to more easily to him. What has really annoyed me about some of the comments made here are that it is getting to personal and the two people involved GB and DA dont deserve that. Last weekend I watch 70+ aged men and women race 2k at a pace that is slower than I could warm up at and I cheered them and respected them and knew that they were going thru (for a lot longer) what I would be going thru ... I am no better than them just a bit faster at this point in time. - George

[old] Graham Benton · Post by **[old] Graham Benton** » May 30th, 2004, 7:23 am

Renger, I didn't say he was rowing the open ... I said "if he rows the Open". If, by its' very nature implies that it is not definite. I thought that you were an English professor?

[old] Xavier · Post by **[old] Xavier** » May 30th, 2004, 9:29 am

Surely we can sum up a little bit here? 1) Dwayne Adams doesn't come onto the board as often as some of the rest of us, and maybe it's a bit harsh to discuss things too fully in his absence - I'm sure he has lots of interesting angles to add to the conversation. 2) I would imagine the majority of the voters in the poll are Brits anyway. 3) It would be interesting to see Graham and Dwayne race in the same category. Nuff said. Maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't. Surely we have the patience just to wait and see? Xav

[old] rjw · Post by **[old] rjw** » May 30th, 2004, 10:15 am

It sure seems ridiculous using the age arguement with two athletes that are on top of their game. Why does a anything change the day someone turns 40? as compared to 39 years 364 days. I hope that when race day comes, both DA and GB race well and can walk away knowing that on the day they couldn't have perfomed any better. They are fortunate to be able to have the high level motivation that can be drawn from healthy competition. They are both quality competitors and I think they will both rise to the occasion. Raoul

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » May 31st, 2004, 3:07 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> It sure seems ridiculous using the age arguement with two athletes that are on top of their game. Why does a anything change the day someone turns 40? as compared to 39 years 364 days.  </td></tr></table> Yes, the age boundary between 39 and 40 is arbitrary, but this is just a practical matter that is specified by the sport, not by physiological pressures, etc., and therefore is not really the issue. The issue is the difference in physical potential of a rower who is 30 years old vs. a rower who is 40. This is the _motivation_ for the age categories. Are you claiming that the physical potential at 40 years old is the same as at 20 or 30? If so, this is a _very_ odd claim. I'll say it again: If Dwayne rows 5:47 (or whatever) this year, the real "race" (in the sense of fair competition) between Dwayne and Graham will take place in 10 years when Graham is 40. The question will be: Can Graham row 5:46 (or whatever) when he is 40? If so, that will be quite an accomplishment, and one that is pretty different from rowing 5:52 at 30 (or 20). Personally, I will be happy to be around 10 years from now to see how Graham does in this race. I wish him the best of luck. It will be a long haul. ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » May 31st, 2004, 3:37 am

Hey Ranger, man you must have trouble rowwing with that bone between your teeth. I think everyone agrees that you get older and generally you get slower and that if we are comparing who is the fastest 40 year old then we will have to weight. But the question who is the quickest now and thats it, not who is the best erger ..... and then really it is no big deal, is it? And those who want to make it one are the ones who look silly in the face of the facts.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » May 31st, 2004, 1:46 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>But the question who is the quickest now and thats it, not who is the best erger ..... and then really it is no big deal, is it? And those who want to make it one are the ones who look silly in the face of the facts.  </td></tr></table> George-- "But the question is who is the quickest now and that's it, not who is the best erger." If you define the question that way, then, no, I agree entirely, it is exactly no big deal. But then again it isn't very interesting if you define the issue that way, either; and if you define the issue that way, it isn't in line with (what I interpret to be) the implications of the banter that has been thrown around about this issue, either (especially by folks such as Sir Pirate). In fact, given this definition, I still find such a race _very_ odd from Graham's point of view. How many rowers get all excited about challenging someone to a race who is 10 years older than they are? Graham certainly has his hands full with those his own age (or, if he is even more ambitious, in the open). He doesn't have to search out 40-year-olds so that he can find a challenge! Best, ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » May 31st, 2004, 1:51 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Graham Benton @ May 30 2004, 06:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Renger, I didn't say he was rowing the open ... I said "if he rows the Open". If, by its' very nature implies that it is not definite. I thought that you were an English professor? </td></tr></table> Graham-- Yes. But you also said that Dwayne's ambition is to be the best rower in the world, even at his age; and if this were indeed his ambition, as it is your ambition, then there would be no question: Dwayne would want to row in the Open. The problem is: There does indeed seem to be a question whether Dwayne wants to row in the Open. Perhaps he can tell us for sure, but I also thought that Dwayne's ambition was to beat Pertii Karppinen's 40s hwt record, not to be the best in the world, despite his age. I thought the latter goal was only _yours_. ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » May 31st, 2004, 6:21 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jun 1 2004, 05:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>George-- "But the question is who is the quickest now and that's it, not who is the best erger." If you define the question that way, then, no, I agree entirely, it is exactly no big deal.  </td></tr></table> Ranger that is what the post / poll asked. It is always possible to read things into a situation and sometimes they are very definitely there and sometimes they are definitely not. In this case it seems to me that there is no doubt that the question was posed to produce rhetoric which it has and we are all guilty of carrying it on but then maybe it would be more productive to not fuel the flames and leave the question posers to their games.

[old] Rogus · Post by **[old] Rogus** » May 31st, 2004, 6:36 pm

Guilty as charged along with a lot of others. 71, now 72 posts, 1363+ views...by far the most popular thread on the forum!

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » May 31st, 2004, 7:21 pm

(addict)

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 1st, 2004, 5:43 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (GeorgeD @ May 31 2004, 05:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jun 1 2004, 05:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>George-- "But the question is who is the quickest now and that's it, not who is the best erger." If you define the question that way, then, no, I agree entirely, it is exactly no big deal.  </td></tr></table> Ranger that is what the post / poll asked. It is always possible to read things into a situation and sometimes they are very definitely there and sometimes they are definitely not. In this case it seems to me that there is no doubt that the question was posed to produce rhetoric which it has and we are all guilty of carrying it on but then maybe it would be more productive to not fuel the flames and leave the question posers to their games. </td></tr></table> George-- Sure. But one of the purposes of this forum (and others) is friendly banter, humorous innuendo, and other verbal slights of hand, all in good fun, and all a supreme waste of time, as all good fun is. What is unfortunate, I think, is that the "question posers" in this case seem a little short on both the sly and the funny. As far as I can tell, they just don't understand the issue! You certainly do, but if you read the thread, almost no one agrees with you (or me). The overwhelming response on the thread was that age doesn't matter in this case and therefore, if there were a race between Graham and Dwayne, "let the better man win." Hmm. I will continue to resist this conclusion, as (it appears) you do--as a matter of course. grrrrrrrrrr RFFFF RFFFFD grrrrrrrrrrr ranger

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