Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] holm188]

<!--QuoteBegin-george nz+Nov 28 2005, 05:43 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Nov 28 2005, 05:43 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->  No problem with 'his' avatar it is th USIRD flag that interest me.  Seems inconguous given his comments of the past few weeks, but then maybe he does not know how to remove it or is not able to.  I guess he could contact C2 to do that but then that would be communication with C2 and he does not like that either - otherwise many of his other concerns would have been clarified by now.<br /><br />George<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br />George,<br /><br />The USIRD flag is a group icon for being in the Dev Squad group. We regular people are simply members without group icon.<br /><br />So Ranger would have to join the common people and become a simple member again to lose the USIRD flag.<br /><br />Maybe we should start a petition and collect signatures to request that he is set free again!!!<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The USIRD flag is a group icon for being in the Dev Squad group. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes. I was a member of the USIRDS. Thus, the icon.<br /><br />The USIRDS was just a group of rowers who had exceeded certain qualification standards and thus were potential candidates for selection to the USIRT. You didn't have to row a trial to be put on the team. C2 could just as easily have just listed the names of some of the people they are considering for possible selection, given past performances. I am a former world record holder. Therefore, I qualified.<br /><br />The USIRDS is virtual. It never gathers physically in one place. It never meets face-to-face. It doesn't go anywhere or do anything. It is nothing like the USIRT.<br /><br />If you are on the USIRDS, you can do suggested workouts and selection trials, if you want, but the workouts are optional and the quality of the trials do not determine selection. C2 just selects who they want, regardless of the trials rowed.. The times rowed in the trials are not even made public. The selection is private and based on unstated criteria. It is not a competition. It is a "gift."<br /><br />It seems that you don't even have to be on the USIRDS to get selected.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] dadams]

This whole thread....Same s**t, different thread.<br /><br />Can't we all just get along??

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Nov 28 2005, 10:35 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Nov 28 2005, 10:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This whole thread....Same s**t, different thread.<br /><br />Can't we all just get along??  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dwayne:<br /><br />Are you done with the Holiday Challenge yet?<br /><br /> <br /><br />(anything to change this thread)<br /><br />Regards -- Mark<br /><br />

[[old] dadams]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Nov 28 2005, 04:26 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 28 2005, 04:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dwayne:<br /><br />Are you done with the Holiday Challenge yet?<br /><br /> <br /><br />(anything to change this thread)<br /><br />Regards -- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />As a matter of fact, I am. Went over the 200k today.

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Nov 28 2005, 10:42 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Nov 28 2005, 10:42 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Nov 28 2005, 04:26 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 28 2005, 04:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dwayne:<br /><br />Are you done with the Holiday Challenge yet?<br /><br /> <br /><br />(anything to change this thread)<br /><br />Regards -- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />As a matter of fact, I am. Went over the 200k today. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Beautiful, my estimate was bang on! Congrats!<br /><br />

[[old] SteveV]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Nov 28 2005, 11:41 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 28 2005, 11:41 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The times rowed in the trials are not even made public. The selection is private and based on unstated criteria. It is not a competition. It is a "gift."<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Wrong again, the times are all listed on the Team page.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-SteveV+Nov 29 2005, 01:59 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(SteveV @ Nov 29 2005, 01:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Nov 28 2005, 11:41 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 28 2005, 11:41 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The times rowed in the trials are not even made public. The selection is private and based on unstated criteria. It is not a competition. It is a "gift."<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Wrong again, the times are all listed on the Team page. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The 2K times for the rowers selected are listed. All the 2K times rowed are not. Therefore, the selection process is still hidden from view. The section process is private, subjective, not an open competition.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] Ray79]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Nov 29 2005, 02:12 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 29 2005, 02:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-SteveV+Nov 29 2005, 01:59 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(SteveV @ Nov 29 2005, 01:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Nov 28 2005, 11:41 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 28 2005, 11:41 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The times rowed in the trials are not even made public. The selection is private and based on unstated criteria. It is not a competition. It is a "gift."<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Wrong again, the times are all listed on the Team page. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The 2K times for the rowers selected are listed. All the 2K times rowed are not. Therefore, the selection process is still hidden from view. The section process is private, subjective, not an open competition.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Does anyone really care??

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Nov 29 2005, 11:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 29 2005, 11:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-SteveV+Nov 29 2005, 01:59 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(SteveV @ Nov 29 2005, 01:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Nov 28 2005, 11:41 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 28 2005, 11:41 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The times rowed in the trials are not even made public. The selection is private and based on unstated criteria. It is not a competition. It is a "gift."<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Wrong again, the times are all listed on the Team page. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The 2K times for the rowers selected are listed. All the 2K times rowed are not. Therefore, the selection process is still hidden from view. The section process is private, subjective, not an open competition.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Feel free to list all of them here and "open" the process for all to see. Starting with yours. <br /><br />I can only guess, but they are probably all listed in the rankings somewhere, unless the particular person doesn't want it listed, which certainly couldn't be someone who is whining about them not being listed, therefore C2 can only be seen as maintaining confidentiality that is desired by those particular participants.<br /><br />I also can't recall anyone being excluded from the competition. h***, you were included for no particularly good reason and then didn't make an effort to participate, so can't possibly know that anything nefarious went on in "private".<br /><br />You have used a lot of words, but have proved nothing in favor of your case. Maybe that is why it is so tiring.

[[old] John Rupp]

Are you tired, Paul.

[[old] Coach Gus]

Can anybody provide a link to the C2 criteria for selection to their US team? If I want to try out next year, it would be very helpful to know what I have to do to be selected.

[[old] John Rupp]

Here is a link that includes the selection criteria.<br /><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... =3035&st=0' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 35&st=0</a>

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Nov 29 2005, 07:47 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 29 2005, 07:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you tired, Paul.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />He's probably tired and bored s**tless of this like the rest of us.

[[old] ranger]

Again, I see no reason why C2 would not want to make the selectional process open and objective, an athletic contest rather than an appointment/"gift." If their intention is the latter, then it is entirely inappropriate for them to hold official trials and call the rowers selected the United States Indoor Rowing Team. They should just invite some good rowers to row for them and be done with it. The aura that surrounds the team now makes it sound as though selection for the team is a fair, competitive process, with objective standards, like qualification for the CRASH-Bs, or winning a hammer. This is just not the case.<br /><br />I have no objectiion to C2 having a company team. I object to C2 appropriating the language of objectivity and therefore the legitimate prestige of competitive sports for commercial, noncompetitive, non-athletic purposes. <br /><br />If it hasn't done so already, this should stop--now.<br /><br />I will be happy to repeat this claim--forever. Others who respect and appreciate competitive sports, I think, should be similarly upset.<br /><br />Again, if C2 wants to continue to call the team the United States Indoor Rowing Team and use the language and procedures of competitive sports, this difficulty can be easily solved. All that C2 has to do is: (1) say explicitly that, in clear clases, selection for the USIRT depends on the relative quality of the 2K trials rowed, (2) publish the results of all of the 2K trials rowed, and (3) provide a short explanation of how selectional decisions were made among rows of comparable quality in different age and weight divisions. <br /><br />Ironically, C2 seems to be claiming the privilege of arbitrary, non-competitive selection for commercial reasons: they are putting up the money. But it is the prestige of the values and procedures of competitive sports that is at the heart of the excitement of their commercial venture in the first place. Therefore, in abandoning these values and procedures, C2 is ruining their own game. For most, the primary lure of being on team, I suspect, is athletic and social, not commercial. I would guess that many would compete just as hard to be on the USIRT, even if they had to get to EIRC on their own coin. <br /><br />ranger