How much improvement is possible in a few months?

[jackarabit]

How do you get the verification codes? My work gym has C2's but I've never seen any codes on them. My home gym however has the Technogym machines so I guess all rows on there are pointless

I think if you're only cheating yourself by manipulating the numbers and ranking unreal rows. For me it's me against myself and I know I'll never be at the top of anything so that is enough.......be good to have verified data though.

[winniewinser]

How do you get the verification codes? My work gym has C2's but I've never seen any codes on them. My home gym however has the Technogym machines so I guess all rows on there are pointless

I think if you're only cheating yourself by manipulating the numbers and ranking unreal rows. For me it's me against myself and I know I'll never be at the top of anything so that is enough.......be good to have verified data though.

Thanks....just read the very same. I'll try it in the next hour as I'm rowing after work today......on a C2

[KeithT]

First - I wrote a longish response a while ago and I don't see it so sorry if it ends up being a repeat. I find this topic very interesting and we sort have went down this path once before. My two cents - I love the ranking and I am competitive by nature so being able to see how I compare to others across the world is really cool to me. However, I take the rankings with a grain of salt. I will typically have a verification code or race result for my PBs and when I see someone who has an unverified piece that just doesn't add up I assume they either made it up for some reason or entered a interval time or simply messed up. That is the issue right now with the top ranked 2K time in my age group. Another factor is, the rankings don't always include the top guys. For instance, I finished #1 in the world in the 4 minute row last year and with a small improvement in the 1K I would be leading the rankings this year but....Andy Benko did not enter scores for these and I know he would beat me by several seconds or meters (as would some others). So, I enjoy the ranking and use them for motivation and I do get a feeling of satisfaction from a high ranked score but I also know they don't give a 100% accurate view.

[Cyclingman1]

Maybe forgotten in this particular case is that I'm speaking of the 70+ HWt catergory. The improvements that I mentioned have to be in that context.

In looking at 2K rankings over the last few yrs, the number of 70+ HWt ergers under 8:01 ranges from 12 - 25 %. So it can be said that 8:01 is NOT pedestrian for old guys. Secondly, there are only a handful of individuals 70+ who get to 7:11 each yr, ranging from 2 to maybe 7. So the 50 sec improvement may seem not much at first glance, but it would actually be quite exceptional. To go from 75-88 percentile to 98-99 percentile in 4 to 5 months would have to be extremely rare. Maybe not impossible, but I sure would like to know what makes such a person tick. And we are not speaking of a 6'4", 205 lb ideal rowing type either.

[hjs]

Maybe forgotten in this particular case is that I'm speaking of the 70+ HWt catergory. The improvements that I mentioned have to be in that context.

In looking at 2K rankings over the last few yrs, the number of 70+ HWt ergers under 8:01 ranges from 12 - 25 %. So it can be said that 8:01 is NOT pedestrian for old guys. Secondly, there are only a handful of individuals 70+ who get to 7:11 each yr, ranging from 2 to maybe 7. So the 50 sec improvement may seem not much at first glance, but it would actually be quite exceptional. To go from 75-88 percentile to 98-99 percentile in 4 to 5 months would have to be extremely rare. Maybe not impossible, but I sure would like to know what makes such a person tick. And we are not speaking of a 6'4", 205 lb ideal rowing type either.

You can directly contact him Jim. Maybe he doesn,t know about the ranking rules. Now you are In the dark. You could ask if he want to race etc...

[Cyclingman1]

Henry,

Have written two emails to him and did ask if he was aware of verification and where to find the info. No response on that subject. However, when I first wrote, I got back a response that indicated that he had suddenly found a rowing "zone" that propelled him to 7:11 for 2K. Being literally from Missouri, I'm pretty skeptical of that explanation. Have not specifically questioned the legitimacy of any times. Maybe I should.

[hjs]

Henry,

Have written two emails to him and did ask if he was aware of verification and where to find the info. No response on that subject. However, when I first wrote, I got back a response that indicated that he had suddenly found a rowing "zone" that propelled him to 7:11 for 2K. Being literally from Missouri, I'm pretty skeptical of that explanation. Have not specifically questioned the legitimacy of any times. Maybe I should.

Bit wierd, there is ofcourse nothing magical about rowing. Sure good training helps, but a good rower will be fast on more or less any program. The last 5% is something else, but not the big picture.

[jackarabit]

First - I wrote a longish response a while ago and I don't see it so sorry if it ends up being a repeat. I find this topic very interesting and we sort have went down this path once before. My two cents - I love the ranking and I am competitive by nature so being able to see how I compare to others across the world is really cool to me. However, I take the rankings with a grain of salt. I will typically have a verification code or race result for my PBs and when I see someone who has an unverified piece that just doesn't add up I assume they either made it up for some reason or entered a interval time or simply messed up. That is the issue right now with the top ranked 2K time in my age group. Another factor is, the rankings don't always include the top guys. For instance, I finished #1 in the world in the 4 minute row last year and with a small improvement in the 1K I would be leading the rankings this year but....Andy Benko did not enter scores for these and I know he would beat me by several seconds or meters (as would some others). So, I enjoy the ranking and use them for motivation and I do get a feeling of satisfaction from a high ranked score but I also know they don't give a 100% accurate view.

Keith, just because Benko don’t want the 4’ record doesn’t mean it ain’t worth having,

“Eighty percent of success is showing up!” —Woody Allen

“100% of success is showing up when there’s a clocker leaning on the rail to lend credibility.” —JackG

[KeithT]

First - I wrote a longish response a while ago and I don't see it so sorry if it ends up being a repeat. I find this topic very interesting and we sort have went down this path once before. My two cents - I love the ranking and I am competitive by nature so being able to see how I compare to others across the world is really cool to me. However, I take the rankings with a grain of salt. I will typically have a verification code or race result for my PBs and when I see someone who has an unverified piece that just doesn't add up I assume they either made it up for some reason or entered a interval time or simply messed up. That is the issue right now with the top ranked 2K time in my age group. Another factor is, the rankings don't always include the top guys. For instance, I finished #1 in the world in the 4 minute row last year and with a small improvement in the 1K I would be leading the rankings this year but....Andy Benko did not enter scores for these and I know he would beat me by several seconds or meters (as would some others). So, I enjoy the ranking and use them for motivation and I do get a feeling of satisfaction from a high ranked score but I also know they don't give a 100% accurate view.

Keith, just because Benko don’t want the 4’ record doesn’t mean it ain’t worth having,

“Eighty percent of success is showing up!” —Woody Allen

“100% of success is showing up when there’s a clocker leaning on the rail to lend credibility.” —JackG

Thanks! I guess it goes both ways - you could be ranked lower than what you really are because of false entries and you could be ranked higher than what you are based on who has taken the time to test a certain distance and submit it. Hence, why I say I don't get too caught up in the rankings though I do enjoy them. I had the opposite benefit last year as well, I was 6th at the WRIC but ended the year ranked like 16th as many didn't travel to California. Anyway, I am just happy that I can compete against people my own age through Erging, glad I discovered it.

[Citroen]

As ever, if you find something that doesn't look right in the rankings send an email to ranking@concept2.com with details of the ranked workout that doesn't tally with the rest of the population.

The problem is reduced now that more and more folks are using Ergdata which includes automatic verification (no scribbling down of 16 hexadecimal digits needed now).

[Erik A]

this has been an interesting thread and while i dont have any verification codes for any of my sessions i do however take a pic of the monitor when complete. so when done i flick to the memory and take a pic of my session as proof if ever required. not that it will ever be needed as im not in the WR bracket of rowers. its interesting to see how others in my age bracket are doing and where i sit amongst them but to be honest i dont really care one way or the other. if i put in the hard work and was ranking towards the top then i would probably be more inclined to actually target the top spots as i am rather competitive but at the moment i am content to plug along knocking out the meters.
i dont have my own C2 but use the ones at the gym that i am a member of. so they vary between Model Cs and Ds and Es with Pm2s,3s,and 4s all in varying states of disrepair

[atblsb]

First - I wrote a longish response a while ago and I don't see it so sorry if it ends up being a repeat. I find this topic very interesting and we sort have went down this path once before. My two cents - I love the ranking and I am competitive by nature so being able to see how I compare to others across the world is really cool to me. However, I take the rankings with a grain of salt. I will typically have a verification code or race result for my PBs and when I see someone who has an unverified piece that just doesn't add up I assume they either made it up for some reason or entered a interval time or simply messed up. That is the issue right now with the top ranked 2K time in my age group. Another factor is, the rankings don't always include the top guys. For instance, I finished #1 in the world in the 4 minute row last year and with a small improvement in the 1K I would be leading the rankings this year but....Andy Benko did not enter scores for these and I know he would beat me by several seconds or meters (as would some others). So, I enjoy the ranking and use them for motivation and I do get a feeling of satisfaction from a high ranked score but I also know they don't give a 100% accurate view.

Well done Keith! Over the past few years, I have focused more on just the 2K competitions and have only posted performances for other distances or times when they broke a record (i.e. the 50-59 records from last year). I will probably add a few meters to my 1 hour record this winter and at some point hope to be able to sit through a marathon to get that record. Are you going to Paris?

Andy Benko

[KeithT]

First - I wrote a longish response a while ago and I don't see it so sorry if it ends up being a repeat. I find this topic very interesting and we sort have went down this path once before. My two cents - I love the ranking and I am competitive by nature so being able to see how I compare to others across the world is really cool to me. However, I take the rankings with a grain of salt. I will typically have a verification code or race result for my PBs and when I see someone who has an unverified piece that just doesn't add up I assume they either made it up for some reason or entered a interval time or simply messed up. That is the issue right now with the top ranked 2K time in my age group. Another factor is, the rankings don't always include the top guys. For instance, I finished #1 in the world in the 4 minute row last year and with a small improvement in the 1K I would be leading the rankings this year but....Andy Benko did not enter scores for these and I know he would beat me by several seconds or meters (as would some others). So, I enjoy the ranking and use them for motivation and I do get a feeling of satisfaction from a high ranked score but I also know they don't give a 100% accurate view.

Well done Keith! Over the past few years, I have focused more on just the 2K competitions and have only posted performances for other distances or times when they broke a record (i.e. the 50-59 records from last year). I will probably add a few meters to my 1 hour record this winter and at some point hope to be able to sit through a marathon to get that record. Are you going to Paris?

Andy Benko

Hey Andy! I met you in CA last year after our race (I took 2nd to you in the Nationals) and even got a pic. You verify the point I was sort of making, I know some of the rankings don't really mean you are as good as the ranking as the top guys don't always have a top score posted . I can go sub 3:00 in the 1K and I think I have a good shot to beat the #1 time right now (2:58) but I also know you can go sub 2:50 and even on an off day low 2:50s.

I am still debating Paris this year. At first I was thinking I would go but then with the Nationals being at the Crash-Bs I was thinking of doing that instead. I definitely don't plan to do both. How about you are you doing Paris/Crash-Bs/Both?

[Cyclingman1]

So, if I claimed for 30 min to do in April 7024m @2:08.1 and increase that to 7981m @1:52.7 in Sept [all unverified], you would say "good job," or not possible? That is a 47% increase in power. I asked this person to please post verified times, but this weekend I saw this posting at the top of the 70+ HWt rankings. Hopefully, I can get to the bottom of this. Either this person is a great new rower in the 70+ HWt ranks or is totally bogus.

[hjs]

So, if I claimed for 30 min to do in April 7024m @2:08.1 and increase that to 7981m @1:52.7 in Sept [all unverified], you would say "good job," or not possible? That is a 47% increase in power. I asked this person to please post verified times, but this weekend I saw this posting at the top of the 70+ HWt rankings. Hopefully, I can get to the bottom of this. Either this person is a great new rower in the 70+ HWt ranks or is totally bogus.

For records verification is needed, so thats not a point. Maybe don,t bother, every serious rower will take someone seriously if they only post unverfied results.