6:28 2K

[Bob S.]

Happy Ground Hog Day to everyone!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_%28film%29

Sneaky one, Bryon.

Bob S.

[BrianStaff]

The Indianapolis Male Veterans race (50+ years old) had 10 finishers, both lightweight and heavyweight, and was won by a heavyweight, Kip Nicolas, in 6:46, just the time he pulled last year.

The other times were 7:05, 7:28, 7:31, 7:34, 7:41, 7:43, 7:45, 8:07, 10:10.

The two lightweights in the race finished in 7:41 and 7:50.

Your information appears to be totally false.

Here are the results...published today.

https://www.regattacentral.com/regatta/ ... 7_3222.pdf

6:46.3, 6:48.9, 7:00.4, 7:17.1, 7:23.0, 7:23.7, 7:26.1, 7:33.3, 7:36.7, 8:15.7
and Paul Randall (92) pulled a 10:32.8

I don't think ranger would have made top 3 - which is why he didn't show up.

He's a mental midget, a complete fraud and the world record holder of DNS & DNF's.

[ranger]

He's a mental midget, a complete fraud and the world record holder of DNS & DNF's.

But fast as hell on the erg!

Stay tuned.

I should get the WR this weekend at Cincinnati, hopefully by about ten seconds.

Wish me luck!

Then I can start my hard sharpening.

I'll just try to stroke along, 1:37 @ 32 spm.

That should do it.

I'll train right through the Cincinnati regatta.

No need to taper.

500s tomorrow.

2Ks on Thursday.

1Ks on Friday.

Things are heating up!

ranger

[chgoss]

He's a mental midget, a complete fraud and the world record holder of DNS & DNF's.

But fast as hell on the erg!

Stay tuned.

I should get the WR this weekend at Cincinnati, hopefully by about ten seconds.

Rich, you are not racing this weekend at Cincinnati.

[BrianStaff]

He's a mental midget, a complete fraud and the world record holder of DNS & DNF's.

But fast as hell on the erg!

Stay tuned.

I should get the WR this weekend at Cincinnati, hopefully by about ten seconds.

Isn't this the point where someone steps up and offers you a bet...that you have no intention of honoring.

[NavigationHazard]

The Indianapolis Male Veterans race (50+ years old) had 10 finishers, both lightweight and heavyweight, and was won by a heavyweight, Kip Nicolas, in 6:46, just the time he pulled last year.

The other times were 7:05, 7:28, 7:31, 7:34, 7:41, 7:43, 7:45, 8:07, 10:10.

The two lightweights in the race finished in 7:41 and 7:50.

Your information appears to be totally false.

(snip)

If the quote actually is accurate, and the post it came from seems to have been removed, the reason Kip Nicholas' time was "just the time he pulled last year" is because it was the time he pulled last year. That list of times is the 2009 results, not the 2010 results.

Groundhog Day indeed.

[mikvan52]

I like his retorics and prosestyle when provoced.

You are "spot on" as the Brits say....

Because there is so little to be said about his lack of reportage and false blanket statements such as :

No one trains for a 2k rowing 20 spm

Maybe what he means is "I don't train for 2k rowing 20 spm so no one else should. And no one else should say that it might be a good idea because.... (insert something about Elskid or something else that does not apply to 55-59 lwts) (about which RIch knows very little.)

If anyone is reading this thread for TRAINING advice... I can testify that very adequqte ergers such as Tom Bohrer and myself (both hammer winners) do train for 2ks using long workouts that averge 20 spm or lower... Not every day! but frequently.

And lots of others:

30' rate of 20 anyone?

Go to the end of the following Youtube and watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO2RZX7CtrU

Rich: What was this group training for?
Answer:
Beijing

Rich: What place did they come in? Hint: the color was gold.




But let's be reasonable"
a max 30' r.20 is not everyone's cup of tea.. and doesn't have to be, especially for part time athletes.

There are many 80% effort workouts at r.20 which are more beneficial to the "lesser stars in the firmament"

I've been doing some such ones once week since the first week in December.. My REPORTED 2k time so far THIS season is 6:47.x . That's not to bad for a skinny old-guy.

I am a weighed in lightweight 24/7. I am #1 right now in Rich's and my miniscule sized standings.

Rich will beat this time if he goes to a race this weekend. Hell, he may even drive to Baltimore where they seem to still allow people weigh-in prior to the 2hr before race time. How do I know?... I've done it.

I have even gone to qualifying satellite races that just take your word for it.....

Boston will be a bitch: They flat-out don't allow it.

Last year I was not wearing a watch and inadvertently tried to weigh-in 5 min early. No dice... "Come back in 5 minutes.", they said....

Dehydration is not something I wish on anyone though....

[ranger]

Maybe what he means is "I don't train for 2k rowing 20 spm so no one else should.

What I said more exactly is that once you row well there is really no reason to train at 20 spm, unless you are just resting but keeping active.

If you are working, rather than resting, keep the rate up.

I would guess that you and Tom are just resting when you are rowing long distances at 20 spm.

Nothing wrong with that, if you need to rest.

Of course, an all out 30'r20 is something else entirely, a race more than a "piece," a test of this or that.

As far as I can tell, only a few people in the world row well (13 SPI for lightweights, 16 SPI for heavyweights), so, sure, all kinds of people can benefit from rowing at low rates, if they still need to learn to row.

But once you know how to row, why bother?

Just row well but keep the rate up, too.

Then you aren't just resting.

The big mistake, I think, is rowing at 20 spm, rowing badly, but still thinking that you are not just resting but really doing something useful.

You aren't.

You are just avoiding what you need to do.

You need to learn to row well (i.e., effectively).

Then you need to learn to row well with the rate up (i.e., efficiently).

If you row a lot of 2:00 @ 20 spm (or whatever), you do neither.

You just rest.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Rich: Do you think resting is part of good training? Should one rest for several (non-consecutive) days out of the week?

I should share too: that I am not resting at
2k pace + 17 to 21 seconds and I am at 20 strokes per minute.

Do you call a pace like that (which for me or any other decent rower is 80% effort ) resting?

I am unable to characterize it as such. When I do such a workout for 45-80 minutes.. It's real work

{edit}

So: It was time for my evening workout. Happenstance: "easy rowing"

20' just to loosen up for a interval session tomorrow
111 drag factor
on slides (to enhance the OTW feel of good rowing)

20:00 - 4953m - 2:01.1 pace - 19 spm

Low hr... No monitor worn but probably in the 60-70% range of HRR
By the way: THese are VERIFIED HRR levels not ("I suppose my max is")

Is this a useless workout, to be scorned by the well trained 50+ rower?

No.... IMHO, it's extremely useful;

#1 It works neural pathways so that you can continue to row well at higher spm.

#2 It is not something reserved just for building one's base

#3 It is therapeutic for flushing out residual toxins from prior hard workouts.

IOW it is not simply "REST" it is restful training a required element.

If and when an erger goes on the water there is even more of it,... doing drills and such..


How many ergers "drill" for form on the erg? Fess- up!
I'll start:
I confess I hate to "drill" OTErg... How dreary!!
But... it's good for your rowing... Low rate stuff is a good substitute for formal drills because it lets you slow down and feel what is happening.
This needs to be done throughout one's rowing career.

Do not think that I am saying that all ergers should row as if they will have to move a boat. TO the contrary: Do what you like... But please do not say that Low Rate stuff is needed by NO ONE training for 2k.

Or just for rest...

[johnlvs2run]

Probably a lot of the hysteria around Rich is that he does his own thing, which everyone gets if they don't "conform" to hard workouts at r20.

However that is exactly the problem. Rich was smashing the WRs the 2nd season that he rowed,
then started all the low rate and SPI stuff that sabotagued his times, the same as they do with everyone else.
Of course tall long armed rowers have much less problem with those, as the handle travel per stroke is much greater.

Fortunately Rich is getting away from that now, and rowing like he did at the start, though much stronger now, as he says.
I'm interested to see the results, now that the ratings are creeping back upward.

[snowleopard]

Fortunately Rich is getting away from that now, and rowing like he did at the start, though much stronger now, as he says.
I'm interested to see the results, now that the ratings are creeping back upward.

Eh? Your bosom pal says he is rowing the same as the long-armed Danish lwts?

[Nosmo]

Probably a lot of the hysteria around Rich is that he does his own thing, which everyone gets if they don't "conform" to hard workouts at r20.

probably a lot of the hysteria around Rich is that he says he will do things he doesn't do (i.e. 'I will do X workout", "I will post my time tomorrow"."I will show a picture of my weight every morning starting monday" "I will do a 6:28 at home by the end of the month". "I will break the world record seven times in seven consecutive races"). A lot more of the hysteria is how he belittles the accomplishments of others. MorE still is that he has not paid any of his bets. More yet because of his dogmatic claims about the superiority of his training.

However that is exactly the problem. Rich was smashing the WRs the 2nd season that he rowed,
then started all the low rate and SPI stuff that sabotaged his times, the same as they do with everyone else.

What evidence do you have that "everyone else" sabotages their times? The Wolverine Plan has about 50% low rate training and many people have gotten hammers and WR's with them and many many more have gotten PBs.

The higher rate works well for you but it is not the only way to do things.

[Citroen]

Happy Ground Hog Day to everyone!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_%28film%29

Apparently Punxatawney Phil saw his shadow so you've got six weeks more winter to go.

Happy groundhog day.

[mikvan52]

now that the ratings are creeping back upward.

Does he send you details of his workouts (by-passing this thread)?

If not, on what evidence do you speak w/such authority?

Cordially,

*(we all would like to see some training)

[NavigationHazard]

As for the sabotage effects of low-rate training:

Seiler et al., Training methods and intensity distribution of young world-class rowers, Int J Sports Physiol Perform. 2009 Dec;4(4):448-60.

Surveyed the training of 31 international and 5 national-finalist junior male rowers. To quote from the abstract: "The young world-class rowers monitored here exhibit a constant emphasis on low-intensity steady-state rowing exercise, and a progressive polarization in the competition period." Furthermore, "Based on heart rate control, 95% of total rowing was performed at intensities corresponding to <2 mmol x L(-1)", i.e. at intensities at or below what C2 characterizes as UT2. This will have been low-rate rowing. How do I know? I know rowers on the German U23 squad.

Apparently the news that vastly higher rates ipso facto are better hasn't reached the German national coaches. Or the Danish LW coaches, for that matter. Here (again) is a picture of a sample workout from the website run by Henrik Stephansen's coach Bo Vestergaard:



Poor Henrik. Think of how good he'd be if he ditched the low-rate/high power portion of the training that helped get him his WR and did all his distance rowing at 43 strokes/minute!