Ranger's training thread

[leadville]

it takes him 6-8 weeks after the first race of the season to get to a point where he can do a 2k in the low 6:40's

Sure, if I am not preparing for it (with anaerobic work) it takes me a while to get down to WR pace for 2K, especially if I haven't been doing hard distance rowing, either, just foundational stuff.

Hard distance work, such as I am doing now, and will continue to do through August, will get me to 6:28 right away.

Then I can start hard sharpening.

That's 14 seconds under the 60s lwt WR.

Then I usually get a dozen seconds over 2K from 2-3 months of hard sharpening.

That will get me to my target, 6:16, 26 seconds under the 60s lwt WR (and under the 60s hwt, 55s hwt, 55s lwt, 50s lwt, and 40s lwt WRs, too).

ranger

rangerboy, your ability to demonstrate the depth of your ignorance never ceases to amaze. anyone who does 3 months of multiple intervals at AT and above is going to be slower, not faster, at the end. And that includes you.

and 'hard' distance work, at HR levels above 80% mHRR, will burn you out before you even start 'sharpening'.

Unless you're getting testosterone injections, you can't recover fast enough or fully enough, and will spiral down. that is why you 'aren't ready', 'got sick', 'felt poorly', and probably (partially) why you're such a cranky bastard.

that is, if you're actually doing most of what you claim to do - which is highly doubtful.

[mikvan52]

ranger~mouse:

Ever wonder what 6:16 looks like to a 60 year-old lightweight hominid from Ann Arbor?
It's a chimera! Quite bat-like, actually...

As for me:
I'm just days away form the the USROWING Masters Nationals (1ks) again.
On top of that : the singles draw has been posted... I love looking at the 60s category too each year.

Here's some scouting I did last year:

Herewith:
An Analysis of the start list for the 2009 Head of the Charles
60-69 year-old Men

featuring a selection of many sculler's '08 times and top three prediction for this year
(October '09)

Head Of The Charles - 2009 Sculling Draw Application Singles Competitor Information
. Veteran Singles Men 60 to 69 years old : 3.0
.
Single Sculls


Cambridge Boat Club (21:09 ’08) Henry Hamilton

Jacksonville Rowing Club (21:01 ’08) B. Schumacher

Nelson Rowing Club (20:52 ’08) Landon Carter

New York Athletic Club (record holder: 18:54.3 (1992) ) Larry Klecatsky

Occoquan Boat Club (20:35 ’08) (record holder 18:16.9 (1984)) Bob Spousta

Pettipaug Yacht Club Rowing (21:25 ’08) John Laundon

Pettipaug Yacht Club Rowing (20:48 ’08) (fastest in group ’08) Paul Flory

Riverside Boat Club (2x in ’08) John Yasaitis

Tabor Academy (21:05 ’08) Wiley Wakeman

Unaffiliated (20:11 ’08) Jack Meyer

Unaffiliated (21:20 ’08) Daniel Bort

University of Massachusetts – Amherst (20:26 ’08) Jim Dietz


A time in the low 20:xx minute range wins or about 2:00/500m (+/-) avg pace for 3 miles


.
see also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_th ... es_Regatta

Funny how the same guys come back each year
See this year's list:
http://www.roninregistration.com/hocr_c ... ID=1248606
Watch what Tebay (as in: Greenwich Crew M. Tebay) does this year....

I tell you what: I'll buy you a hot dog for each of these guys you beat on corrected time in 2011



I do realize the demands of the 1st time out situation. I got 14th place when I was a newbie... in '07
Do you predict 14th for 2011?... in your debut?
How about a time prediction? You predict 6:16 for the 2k erg.... so... what's the scoop on 3 miles of winding river in the Windhover....

Success in sculling demands long range planning. WIll you go to the water immediately (ASAP) after WIRC (CRashb) next spring? Will you drop the erg for a while??
OR... will it be "ranger-wok" all over again while you chase the chimera of 6:16

[mikvan52]

A time in the low 20:xx minute range wins ( the 60-69 1x at the HOCR) or about 2:00/500m (+/-) avg pace for 3 miles

come to think of it... I don't even know if you've ever sculled 3 miles without a break...
Have you?

[KevJGK]

I guarantee the Liar Supreme won't post a 2k on the 1st...

Naturally he won’t post a result but I wonder if he is already aware of that or does he believe he might?

[ranger]

A 5K at 1:42/17:00 also predicts a 6:28/1:37 2K, so I will try to get that done before the end of August, too.

I now pull 1:42 at 28 spm.

1:42 for 5K would be a pb for me (by one second per 500m).

My 5K pb is 17:10/1:43.

This last year, the best 5K by someone by age and weight was 18:25/1:50.5, 8.5 seconds per 500m slower than 17:00/1:42.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (59–70) | 2010 Season

1 Henry Baker 62 Santa Barbara CA USA 18:25.7 RowPro
gregory brock 61 santa cruz ca USA 18:27.9 IND
Bob Willis 59 Longmeadow Ma USA 18:30.6 IND
2 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 18:42.9 IND
3 Hugh Conway 60 St. Pats TOW Club IRL 18:43.1 IND_V
4 Bob Lakin 61 Wichita KS USA 18:47.3 IND
5 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 18:52.8 IND_V
6 Joe Keating 61 London IRL 18:55.5 C2Log
7 Kurt Blumberg 63 Boulder CO USA 18:56.0 IND
8 Rob Codling 61 Berkhamsted GBR 18:57.6 IND
9 Rob Drury 63 Maidstone Kent GBR 18:58.4 C2Log
10 Greg Hodge 63 Traverse City MI USA 18:59.4 IND_V

I do 1:50.5 pace at a UT2 heart rate.

UT2 is AT + 10.

ranger

[ranger]

Success in sculling demands long range planning. WIll you go to the water immediately (ASAP) after WIRC (CRashb) next spring? Will you drop the erg for a while??
OR... will it be "ranger-wok" all over again while you chase the chimera of 6:16

Well, if I pull a lwt 6:16 when I am 60 at WIRC 2011, there will be no chimera to chase.



But to answer your question, I suspect I will continue to erg for an your or so just before dawn for the rest of my life.

I like the routine.

It keeps my fitness sky-high, and if I pull 6:16 on the erg, as the years go by, fitness will be my major advantage OTW over other 60s, and then 70s, and then 80s, rowers like you.

If I pull a lwt 6:16 on the erg, this advantage in fitness will be (deomonstrably) _massive_, in the range of eight seconds per 500m--across the board.

And, of course, for its own sake, it will be a significant rush to keep doing times in and around a lwt 6:16 on the erg, year after year, when I am in my 60s.

If I do that I will be unarguably the best age-group erger that has been, is, or ever will be, at least in the foreseeable future (e.g., the remaining decades of my lifetime).

These rows will redefine age-group rowing standards on the erg by 30 seconds over 2K.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, there is nothing at all bad about my OTW rowing.

It is coming along very nicely.

I am delighted with it and will continue to do it whenever I can, in addition to my erging.

I make little technical advances each time I go out OTW.

That's enough for me, except that I would like to row quite a bit more OTW than I do now, perhaps twice as much.

I would like to get up to 20K a day OTW, as I like to do OTErg, so that my erging and OTW rowing would be balanced double sessions.

This will certainly be possible when I am retired in a few years.

ranger

[Carl Watts]

I now pull 1:42 at 28 spm.

ranger

We can all do that, in fact I can do 1:42 at only 26 SPM, it doesn't mean a thing.

My 5K pb is 17:10/1:43.

ranger

That was 7 years ago already, let it go.

Realistically you going to be lucky to pull a sub 7 2K these days, even then your going to have to pace yourself or your going to stuff it up.

Why ? you have not posted any verified distance results to prove otherwise and until you do your posts are only good for a laugh .

[ranger]

We can all do that, in fact I can do 1:42 at only 26 SPM, it doesn't mean a thing.

No, stroking naturally, no 60s lwts pull 12 SPI, nowhere near, now or ever.

For veteran rowers, your natural stroking power (your technical and skeltal-muscular effectiveness and efficiency) is the most important factor that bears upon your achievement over 2K.

Contrary to popular belief, rowing is not primarily aerobic.

It is primarily technical and skeletal-muscular.

As a heavyweight, for you to do what I am doing now, you need to wait 15 years but still be able to do all of your rowing at 15 SPI and normal rates (e.g., 24 spm for a FM, 26 spm for a HM, 28 spm for 10K, 30 spm for 5K).

Good luck with it.

That's a 5K at 1:33/15:30.

ranger

[hjs]

August 7 only 24 days left before you again won,t pull your first 2k.................

[hjs]

We can all do that, in fact I can do 1:42 at only 26 SPM, it doesn't mean a thing.

No, stroking naturally, no 60s lwts pull 12 SPI, nowhere near, now or ever.

For veteran rowers, your natural stroking power (your technical and skeltal-muscular effectiveness and efficiency) is the most important factor that bears upon your achievement over 2K.

Contrary to popular belief, rowing is not primarily aerobic.

It is primarily technical and skeletal-muscular.

As a heavyweight, for you to do what I am doing now, you need to wait 15 years but still be able to do all of your rowing at 15 SPI and normal rates (e.g., 24 spm for a FM, 26 spm for a HM, 28 spm for 10K, 30 spm for 5K).

Good luck with it.

That's a 5K at 1:33/15:30.

ranger

This may sound as hard work but you take all the breaks you need.

So not difficult at all, if you lowpull is 1.33 or below you can do it

[NavigationHazard]

Contrary to popular belief, rowing is not primarily aerobic. It is primarily technical and skeletal-muscular.

This old ... Sigh.

Care to explain why using your skeletal muscles to row doesn't involve -- a priori -- aerobic energy pathways?

Didn't think you'd discovered an exception to human physiology. Rowing without breathing -- sheesh.

As has been pointed out to many many times, muscle contractions require energy. Various pathways are involved in humans; a combination of these provides the energy for exercise, with the intensity and duration of the effort bearing on the precise mix. In a competition 2k, the most recent research shows that something like 85-88% of the energy expenditure comes from aerobic pathways. You can't wish that out of existence. Go ahead and try, though. Hold your breath and see how far you get rowing any pace/rate combination you like that yields 12 spi. Please do track your heart rate, too.

[ranger]

Your 2K is pretty much determined by what you can do at 26 spm for a HM.

A HM @ 26 spm is done at 2K + 11.

Paul Smith likes to have his rowers do 1:55 @ 26 spm (10 MPS, 8.7 SPI).

So that prepares them to do a 2K @ 1:44/6:56.

I am shooting for 1:45 @ 26 (11.6 SPI).

Yea, as Nav points out, pulling 10 seconds per 500m faster at the same rate takes more energy, and in long rows of this sort, almost all of the energy is aerobic.

To row 1:45 @ 25 spm for a HM, a high aerobic capacity is not the only prerequisite, though.

I would guess that skeletal-muscular and technical effectiveness and efficiency account for as much as 10 seconds per 500m of this accomplishment.

That is, with exactly the same non-fat body mass and aerobic capacity, one rower could do 1:55 @ 26 spm for the HM, while another could do 1:45 @ 26 spm.

The former might be a great runner, biker, swimmer, or skater, but not much of a rower.

ranger

[ranger]

Contrary to popular belief, rowing is not primarily aerobic. It is primarily technical and skeletal-muscular.

This old ... Sigh.

Care to explain why using your skeletal muscles to row doesn't involve -- a priori -- aerobic energy pathways?

Didn't think you'd discovered an exception to human physiology. Rowing without breathing -- sheesh.

As has been pointed out to many many times, muscle contractions require energy. Various pathways are involved in humans; a combination of these provides the energy for exercise, with the intensity and duration of the effort bearing on the precise mix. In a competition 2k, the most recent research shows that something like 85-88% of the energy expenditure comes from aerobic pathways. You can't wish that out of existence. Go ahead and try, though. Hold your breath and see how far you get rowing any pace/rate combination you like that yields 12 spi. Please do track your heart rate, too.

I didn't say that rowing doesn't take good aerobic capacity.

I said that high aerobic capacity is not the primary determinant of achievement in rowing.

Many people with high aerobic capacity can't row a lick, and many people with low aerobic capacity, such as Mike VB, can still be pretty darn good.

ranger

[hjs]

I didn't say that rowing doesn't take good aerobic capacity.

I said that high aerobic capacity is not the primary determinant of achievement in rowing.

Many people with high aerobic capacity can't row a lick, and many people with low aerobic capacity, such as Mike VB, can still be pretty darn good.

ranger

For any aerobic exercise, not matter what the first and most important variable is aerobic capacity, you can have all the technique in the world with a solid motor (hart and lungs) you get nowhere.

So indeed mike does have a much better technique otw then you, that's why he is so much faster. On the erg that is nit the case. Your technique works fine on the erg. So you both have more or less the same aerobic capacity. As simple as that.

Ps You keep saying that you are faster then Mike on the erg, but Mike only raced twice. One "safe" race, not 100% max, and one in which he blew up trying to get the Wr. This became a fly and die, although still good enough to win the hammer.

You blew so many times last season, not coming anywhere close to Mike's blowing up. So in a race man to man, my money is firmly on Mike