What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » January 22nd, 2006, 7:32 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Carl Henrik @ Jan 20 2006, 04:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I liked it, would love for someone to criticize it since I'm too biased. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Carl,<br /><br />It is interesting to do and works you in the right zones then it is good training. Key will be progression (up to 5 min blocks, longer sessions, link to rate restrictions, higher watts etc).<br /><br />I use something similar where I will use 20, 22, 24, 22 spm with 220, 242, 264, 242, watts (i.e. 11 SPI) in 5 min blocks. Therefore x3 is 60 min session. Normally I will do this straight through with no rests other than quick drink of water. You then get average rate sub 1:53 and around 16,000 m for the hour which is a good steady session.<br /><br />When I first started I struggled with 9 SPI, 11 is now comfortable and I am working towards 12. (Today I did 30 min at r20 and holding 1:54 which is about 237 watts so edging closer to 12 SPI for longer work.)<br /><br />Like you I find this approach more interesting and so it passes the time easily. The other benefit of linking the watts and spm is that it requires concentration both on technique and rhythm - nice steady rowing results!<br /><br />Neil

[old] hjs · Post by **[old] hjs** » January 22nd, 2006, 9:28 am

6 K race today in Amsterdam. went well.<br /><br />20.33.3 (split 142.77) very flat race. had a bit left in the tank so ended in 130 last 100m. <br />It was my first public race since 5 year so I have to get used to it again. Next week a 2 K In tilburg.

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 22nd, 2006, 9:33 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 22 2006, 08:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>6 K race today in Amsterdam. went well.<br /><br />20.33.3 (split 142.77) very flat race. had a bit left in the tank so ended in 130 last 100m. <br />It was my first public race since 5 year so I have to get used to it again. Next week a 2 K In tilburg. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well done to you hjs, that is a very nice time for 6000m, what did you r at?<br /><br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 22nd, 2006, 9:53 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 22 2006, 09:33 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 22 2006, 08:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>6 K race today in Amsterdam. went well.<br /><br />20.33.3 (split 142.77) very flat race. had a bit left in the tank so ended in 130 last 100m. <br />It was my first public race since 5 year so I have to get used to it again. Next week a 2 K In tilburg. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well done to you hjs, that is a very nice time for 6000m, what did you r at? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />* NOTE TO ALL: What follows is a JOKE *<br /><br />That would have to be a secret.<br /><br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 22nd, 2006, 9:54 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 22 2006, 09:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>6 K race today in Amsterdam. went well.<br /><br />20.33.3 (split 142.77) very flat race. had a bit left in the tank so ended in 130 last 100m. <br />It was my first public race since 5 year so I have to get used to it again. Next week a 2 K In tilburg. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />HJS:<br /><br />Very nice time! Congratulations ... and best wishes on a fast 2K in Tilburg!<br /><br />-- Mark

[old] csabour · Post by **[old] csabour** » January 22nd, 2006, 10:40 am

last night:<br /><br />2k warm up<br /><br />8k max (6k+4seconds)<br />held 1:56.8<br /><br />long stretch<br /><br />

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » January 22nd, 2006, 10:59 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(neilb @ Jan 22 2006, 11:32 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Carl,<br /><br />It is interesting to do and works you in the right zones then it is good training. Key will be progression (up to 5 min blocks, longer sessions, link to rate restrictions, higher watts etc).<br /><br />I use something similar where I will use 20, 22, 24, 22 spm with 220, 242, 264, 242, watts (i.e. 11 SPI) in 5 min blocks. Therefore x3 is 60 min session. Normally I will do this straight through with no rests other than quick drink of water. You then get average rate sub 1:53 and around 16,000 m for the hour which is a good steady session.<br /><br />When I first started I struggled with 9 SPI, 11 is now comfortable and I am working towards 12. (Today I did 30 min at r20 and holding 1:54 which is about 237 watts so edging closer to 12 SPI for longer work.)<br /><br />Like you I find this approach more interesting and so it passes the time easily. The other benefit of linking the watts and spm is that it requires concentration both on technique and rhythm - nice steady rowing results!<br /><br />Neil <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Neil, <br /><br />Thanks for the feedback. I find your routine interesting. <br />I aim for SPI 11 as well, but intensitylevels are not set for integer SPM values, making training a bit less accurate and less automatic, but also a bit more free and mentaly easier. The intensities are about the same 240 with mine, 242 with yours. <br /><br />Differences in yours are: <br />pyramid shaped waves of intensity<br />continous rowing<br />higher steps<br />longer steps<br />topintensity lower (264 vs 270)<br /><br /><br />Of this, it is the continous rowing that interests me most. How do you reckon a 60 min PB attempt with your format would go for you?<br /><br />I think my PB is 251w over the hour. I wonder if something like a continous 3x(15min of 230,240,250,260,270) would set me up in a position to beat that. Performance over long distances is very much about mental comfort I think. But, I guess there are "no free luches". Only one way to find out. But it's a bit early in the season for me yet.

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » January 22nd, 2006, 11:07 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 20 2006, 10:03 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Carl,<br /><br />Your session is interesting, as I've been doing a similar thing for warmups the last couple of weeks, i.e. twice a week before faster stuff, as follows:<br /><br />3x 20:00, with 5:00 rests in between<br />The 20:00 are 2:00 faster then 2:00 very easy between.<br /><br />The faster ones are as follows:<br /><br />2:11 2:10 2:09 2:08 2:07<br />2:06 2:05 2:04 2:03 2:02<br />2:01 2:00 1:59 1:58 1:57<br /><br />I was doing these straight before, without the easy 2:00 in between but felt it was a little too hard as a warm up, considering not at the speed of the repetitions yet.<br /><br />Now I am planning to try something else next time. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John, <br />Thanks for the feedback. Why 2mins and not say 3 min per "interval"?<br />You do a 70min session for warm up? I think you can call that more than a warm up, although you will definitly be warm.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 22nd, 2006, 1:05 pm

Hi Carl,<br /><br />Yes I do 60 minutes for the warmup.<br /><br />Before I did 4x 15:00 at 2:03, 2:01.2, 2:00.2, 1:59.5, which average 2k+ 10, and then did my reps after that.<br /><br />This worked well but I'm trying to get warmed up better without using the same energy over distance.<br /><br />I used 2:00 reps because that's how the monitor is set up automatically. It builds my heart rate for a minute, steady for a minute and then going easy in between again.<br /><br />I'm not conclusive about which way is better. Perhaps doing it all easy then 10 minutes of pickups will get me more used to a pace for the reps and less tired.

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » January 22nd, 2006, 1:18 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Carl Henrik @ Jan 22 2006, 09:59 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />Performance over long distances is very much about mental comfort I think. But, I guess there are "no free luches". Only one way to find out. But it's a bit early in the season for me yet. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Carl,<br /><br />My 60 min PB done last year was at 1:49.3 and I probably would have rated at 26-27 for that.<br /><br />At the time I did it my "comfortable" SPI would have not been 11 and possibly not even 10 but I have a good efficient stroke and at that time reasonable fitness. Now my fitness is not as good (too much absence with work and niggling injury) but I am more comfortable at higher SPI.<br /><br />So, I will consolidate 12 SPI over next few months and at same time build fitness back and then see what happens with free rate 60 min. What I do know is that now a "standard" 60 min session is reaching 16,000+ m whereas at the time I set my PB same session was probably only at 15,600m. So in theory I can do better but there is, as you say, a big mental challenge and you certainly need to put the work in to get something out.<br /><br />Still, it is for me a very rewarding way to work.<br /><br />Neil

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » January 22nd, 2006, 1:21 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 22 2006, 05:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi Carl,<br /><br />Yes I do 60 minutes for the warmup.<br /><br />Before I did 4x 15:00 at 2:03, 2:01.2, 2:00.2, 1:59.5, which average 2k+ 10, and then did my reps after that.<br /><br />This worked well but I'm trying to get warmed up better without using the same energy over distance.<br /><br />I used 2:00 reps because that's how the monitor is set up automatically. It builds my heart rate for a minute, steady for a minute and then going easy in between again.<br /><br />I'm not conclusive about which way is better. Perhaps doing it all easy then 10 minutes of pickups will get me more used to a pace for the reps and less tired. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />2k + 10 is a rather fast pace to be doing for 60min. 2k +10 is about 10k PB pace for me and would probably be an extremely tough work out for 4x15min. That would detract from my capacity to reach high intensity later, but as a stand alone work out it would be great. <br /><br />Have you tried implementing the principles described by Mike Caviston concerning warm up? In my view the key concept is working for 3min or more at 80% of 2k wattage. This aids in erging with intensity afterwards and performing many deadlifts as well.

[old] hjs · Post by **[old] hjs** » January 22nd, 2006, 5:25 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 22 2006, 02:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 22 2006, 08:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>6 K race today in Amsterdam. went well.<br /><br />20.33.3 (split 142.77) very flat race. had a bit left in the tank so ended in 130 last 100m. <br />It was my first public race since 5 year so I have to get used to it again. Next week a 2 K In tilburg. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well done to you hjs, that is a very nice time for 6000m, what did you r at? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Hoi Chad Thanks.<br /><br />I rated 28/29 om an average, I haven,t seen the strokefile so I don,t now exactly. I did end in a little sprint rate 36/pace 129/30. Drag was 115. <br />4 months ago My 5 k went in 1.49 splits so I have to be very pleased.

[old] hjs · Post by **[old] hjs** » January 22nd, 2006, 5:29 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 22 2006, 02:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 22 2006, 09:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>6 K race today in Amsterdam. went well.<br /><br />20.33.3 (split 142.77) very flat race. had a bit left in the tank so ended in 130 last 100m. <br />It was my first public race since 5 year so I have to get used to it again. Next week a 2 K In tilburg. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />HJS:<br /><br />Very nice time! Congratulations ... and best wishes on a fast 2K in Tilburg!<br /><br />-- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Thanks Mark.<br /><br />Tilburg 2 K, I am curious, haven,t don much speedwork so I am not sure what I can do. Think I will do a 1600 test wednesday (95% or so).

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 22nd, 2006, 5:34 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 22 2006, 05:29 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 22 2006, 02:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 22 2006, 09:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>6 K race today in Amsterdam. went well.<br /><br />20.33.3 (split 142.77) very flat race. had a bit left in the tank so ended in 130 last 100m. <br />It was my first public race since 5 year so I have to get used to it again. Next week a 2 K In tilburg. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />HJS:<br /><br />Very nice time! Congratulations ... and best wishes on a fast 2K in Tilburg!<br /><br />-- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Thanks Mark.<br /><br />Tilburg 2 K, I am curious, haven,t don much speedwork so I am not sure what I can do. Think I will do a 1600 test wednesday (95% or so). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What's been your best 2K this season, and ever?

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 22nd, 2006, 5:38 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Carl Henrik @ Jan 22 2006, 09:21 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Have you tried implementing the principles described by Mike Caviston concerning warm up? In my view the key concept is working for 3min or more at 80% of 2k wattage. This aids in erging with intensity afterwards and performing many deadlifts as well. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes and it didn't warm me up very well.<br />