The Two Types of Training

[snowleopard]

It doesn't measure anything

Astonishingly ignorant.

Do you row?

Or just type.

I refer you to my friend Mr Nosmo and the simple algebraic test he set for you.

Here's another one: what are the units of SPI?

Get back to me when you know what you're talking about. I won't hold my breath

[ranger]

I won't hold my breath

Please do, although, surely, even anoxia will have no substantial effect on your brain, either positive or negative.

Brain dead is brain dead.

And that's it.

ranger

[ranger]

I refer you to my friend Mr Nosmo

Brain dead people have friends?

Interesting!

What do you do together to have a good time?



ranger

[ranger]

Snowleopard--

Did you do the two 10K rows?

No?

Oh.

Yea.

Sorry.

I forgot.

You just type.



ranger

[snowleopard]

I refer you to my friend Mr Nosmo

Brain dead people have friends?

Interesting!

What do you do together to have a good time?

We set simple tests that assoc. professors fail. Hmm, who's brain dead now?

That's what lithium and canadian club does for you. You can't remember who you are, who I am, or how old you are.

[ranger]

Snowleopard--

Did you do the two 10K rows?

No?

Oh.

Yea.

Sorry.

I forgot.

You just type.



ranger

[johnlvs2run]

How is it a measure of inefficiency?

Because it's inefficient.

[Carl Watts]

All the necessary information to evaluate your performance already exists on your PM monitor. RowPro also gives you DPS or distance per stroke as well if anyone is interested.

Bottom line if you’re "Creating" any more numbers it’s just unnecessary and confusing rubbish to anyone reading this.

Efficient training is about minimizing your SPM while still maintaining your intended pace. This gives you the required headroom to rate up (with the same power per stroke) for shorter distance rows like the 2K.

The following was sent to me and is very useful.

http://www.biorow.com/RBN_en_2007_files ... News10.pdf

Examples of using the Tables:
1. Your target for a 2k ergo race is 6:00 at the
rate 36. If you can train at the rate 18 at a split of
1:53, this means your muscles are ready to produce
the same amount of work per stroke, as required
for your target result and rate.
2. You can train at a split of 1:48 at the rate
20. This means your muscles are ready to produce
2k race time 5:44 at the rate 40. If you can’t produce
this result, then you lack endurance.
Enjoy your smarter training!

[leadville]

All the necessary information to evaluate your performance already exists on your PM monitor. RowPro also gives you DPS or distance per stroke as well if anyone is interested.

Bottom line if you’re "Creating" any more numbers it’s just unnecessary and confusing rubbish to anyone reading this.

Efficient training is about minimizing your SPM while still maintaining your intended pace. This gives you the required headroom to rate up (with the same power per stroke) for shorter distance rows like the 2K.

The following was sent to me and is very useful.

http://www.biorow.com/RBN_en_2007_files ... News10.pdf

Examples of using the Tables:
1. Your target for a 2k ergo race is 6:00 at the
rate 36. If you can train at the rate 18 at a split of
1:53, this means your muscles are ready to produce
the same amount of work per stroke, as required
for your target result and rate.
2. You can train at a split of 1:48 at the rate
20. This means your muscles are ready to produce
2k race time 5:44 at the rate 40. If you can’t produce
this result, then you lack endurance.
Enjoy your smarter training!

Carl - not exactly. the principal of specificity holds that one's optimal performance is obtained by training at the angle and speed of contraction for the major muscle groups; in addition trying to maintain a high watt output at a low rate requires the use of different muscle fibers than a higher rate and lower wattage. I'd suggest interspersing higher ratings at lower watts; try it and see what happens to your heart rate at the same split.

That's not to say low rate training doesn't play an important role; it does. however one cannot train exclusively at those low rates and high output levels and be able to produce the same amount of work at higher rates as they just aren't trained to work at the higher speed.

[aharmer]

I break my vow of silence again in an attempt to force ranger's hand:) When we take his bait it gives him other topics to discuss and hide behind. He is now demanding to see workout results from others, when he has been promising for months to post his own without a single result.

Rich, nobody has to post their results here except you. This is your thread, and you are the one promising to post results you could never dream of actually doing.

I believe the most recent declaration was 60 minutes at 1:44. How about we don't see another f*****g word from you until you try 60 minutes at 1:44? post the screenshot regardless of result. Obviously it's not going to be 1:44, but just post the damn result so we can see where you're really at and maybe everybody can learn something together instead of this egomaniac bullshit. People would love to be on your side and work with you to achieve your goals if you weren't such a shithead all the time. If you pull 1:44 or 1:54 for 60 minutes doesn't matter to anybody except you. The sun still sets in the West regardless what you pull on your stupid erg...get over yourself and be honest, maybe you could have some advocates in your corner as you pursue your goals.

[KevJGK]

Heck, if you are going to row 9.5 SPI, at least row 10 MPS and rate 27 spm.

Totally impossible for me.

Is that your new goal?

You can't row 1:51 @ 27 spm (10 MPS, 9.5 SPI)?

At all?

ranger

You forgot the context of our exchange; it was regarding a 36 minute session.

There is no way I could erg 10 MPS and rate 27 spm.

36 minutes @ 01:51.1 = 9720 meters; I think even you would find that tough.

As I said, Is that your new goal?

Rich; the daft thing is, why describe something as seemingly easy (remember the context) "Heck, if you are going to row 9.5 SPI, at least row 10 MPS and rate 27 spm" when it is actually very difficult?

[snowleopard]

All the necessary information to evaluate your performance already exists on your PM monitor. RowPro also gives you DPS or distance per stroke as well if anyone is interested.

Bottom line if you’re "Creating" any more numbers it’s just unnecessary and confusing rubbish to anyone reading this.

Efficient training is about minimizing your SPM while still maintaining your intended pace. This gives you the required headroom to rate up (with the same power per stroke) for shorter distance rows like the 2K.

The following was sent to me and is very useful.

http://www.biorow.com/RBN_en_2007_files ... News10.pdf

Examples of using the Tables:
1. Your target for a 2k ergo race is 6:00 at the
rate 36. If you can train at the rate 18 at a split of
1:53, this means your muscles are ready to produce
the same amount of work per stroke, as required
for your target result and rate.
2. You can train at a split of 1:48 at the rate
20. This means your muscles are ready to produce
2k race time 5:44 at the rate 40. If you can’t produce
this result, then you lack endurance.
Enjoy your smarter training!

Carl - not exactly. the principal of specificity holds that one's optimal performance is obtained by training at the angle and speed of contraction for the major muscle groups; in addition trying to maintain a high watt output at a low rate requires the use of different muscle fibers than a higher rate and lower wattage. I'd suggest interspersing higher ratings at lower watts; try it and see what happens to your heart rate at the same split.

That's not to say low rate training doesn't play an important role; it does. however one cannot train exclusively at those low rates and high output levels and be able to produce the same amount of work at higher rates as they just aren't trained to work at the higher speed.

And the the cardiovascular demands of rowing at 36 spm or 40 spm are different to those of rowing at 18 spm where the recovery (rest) between strokes is much longer. If you were to do all your rowing at 18 spm and then try an all out 2K at 36 spm you would be in for a shock.

The numbers look sensible to me but you would need to build a series of workouts at the various rate and pace combinations that are shown, e.g., 4 x 2K @ 28 spm; 8 x 500m @ race rate/pace; and endurance workouts in the range of 18 to 24 spm; etc.

[Carl Watts]

I think that's what is meant by the Endurance part.

There is no mention of Heart Rate but at say 18 SPM you need to be well down on your maximum HR, the lower the better. This gives you the reserve to go to 32 SPM and maintain it for 2K.This stuff is not rocket science it just comes down to maintaining a certain level of power for a certain amount of time.

The theory is the stroke time & power doesn't change going from 18SPM to 32SPM what changes is the recovery period. It becomes significantly shorter. The assumption is made you still have the stamina to maintain 32SPM with the same power per stroke as at 18SPM. At present my 20minutes at 1:55 pace at 21 SPM produces and end HR of 183, i.e. not much reserve so obviously this is no good (my max HR is 197). I need loads more distance work to improve my fitness and get it down to 150-160 so it can handle the jump to 32 SPM for a full 2K and not the current 3minutes. Currently I have no idea how low I can get it because I have not been what I call "Fit" for 30 years!

Call it what you want, Stamina, Endurance, Fitness this is what is going to limit you at the end of the day. It also doesn't matter how you train your body is going to have a limit. The Elite rower will have a particular height, build, lung capacity & heart that gives him or her the advantage that you will be unable to compete with.

That's all I have to say on this thread.....now on with the training and getting some decent results up on the C2 Log.

[ranger]

Rowing naturally, I now pull 11.7 SPI--consistently, across the board, at all rates.

So now I only have to hit my rate targets for the various distances and the game is won.

FM 26 spm
HM 28 spm
10K 30 spm
5K 32 spm
2K 36 spm
1K 38 spm

ranger

[ranger]

Obviously it's not going to be 1:44

True.

If I rate 28 spm, it will be 1:42.

ranger