6:28 2K

[ranger]

Try 4 x 2K, or 4 x 1K, or 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), or 5K, or 60min.

Those will give you a 2K prediction.

60min is done at 2K + 10.

5K is done at 2K + 5.

4 x 2K is done at 2K + 4.

4 x 1K is done at 2K.

8 x 500m (3:30 rest) is done at 2K - 3.

ranger

[ranger]

45:00.0 - 11430 - 1:58.1 - 19 - 128

That is only 11.2 SPI clearly you don't row well.

BTW ranger, Mike's performance at the nationals in August far exceeds anything you have or will ever do on the erg.

In a couple of years, and then on into the future, I suspect that Mike and I will row against one another, year after year, at the OTW Nationals.

So no need to mix media.

The erg won't be relevant.

It is just a winter training tool for OTW rowing.

My prediction:

When I am fully prepared to race OTW, as I will be in a couple of years, unless Mike can get the rate up further over both 1K and 5K, he won't beat me OTW, either at the Nationals or at HOCR.

ranger

[snowleopard]

Rich: My limitations.... 2k in 6:37.5.

Nope.

Not a chance.

Not unless you can do 60min in 1:49.

Eh? What a load of crap. 60 min @ 1:49 is in now way a pre-requisite for a 6:37.5. Where do you get your ideas from?

So little big man, when y' gonna pony up and show us your stuff? Still no sign of that 16K @ 1:52/22 spm. And don't be giving me that, "it was too easy so I goofed around with somethin' harder" shuffle of yours. It was just a warmup.

No reason not to show. Just like the weigh-in with bodyfat %age.

Where the hell are they man? Seems to me those man boobs of yours are hiding beneath a big girl's blouse.

[rjw]

Try 4 x 2K, or 4 x 1K, or 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), or 5K, or 60min.

Those will give you a 2K prediction.

60min is done at 2K + 10.

5K is done at 2K + 5.

4 x 2K is done at 2K + 4.

4 x 1K is done at 2K.

8 x 500m (3:30 rest) is done at 2K - 3.

ranger

Remind us again which ones of these you have done lately?

None?

Oh yea, that's what I thought!

[mikvan52]

I would say that set of 2k-1500-1k I reported in full (and which you acknowledged reading) indicates something different than what you're so cock-sure about?

I have never done 2K, 1500, 1K.

Useless stuff.

Try 4K, 3K, 2K, 1K, 500m.

Better.

ranger

back in 2003 ?

[NavigationHazard]

Come and sit in the stands in Boston next month after you fail to make weight.

I don't have to make weight to row.

I can win the 55s hwts.

Then again, my weight this year is _much_ better than last year, and last year I made weight at every race I went to.

ranger

To quote the great Billy Gibbons, Haw haw haw haw.

Even assuming Dick Cashin won't show, how are you going to beat Steve Krum? He's already posted a 6:21 and change in training. And he'll be 55 in Boston.

[Nosmo]

In a couple of years, and then on into the future, I suspect that Mike and I will row against one another, year after year, at the OTW Nationals.

I suspect you will never race the nationals. I also suspect Mike may not be doing that anymore. After a few years of racing at the top level most people with real lives scale back and put priorities on other things. If you do race against him you will still loose.

Someone with as good technique as Mike adapt to higher rates very quickly. It is just scaling back on the pressure and or changing the rigging for a lighter load.

[chgoss]

Come and sit in the stands in Boston next month after you fail to make weight.

I don't have to make weight to row.

I can win the 55s hwts.

Then again, my weight this year is _much_ better than last year, and last year I made weight at every race I went to.

ranger

your body fat % is higher this year, than it was at this time last year.

[leadville]

45:00.0 - 11430 - 1:58.1 - 19 - 128

In a couple of years, and then on into the future, I suspect that Mike and I will row against one another, year after year, at the OTW Nationals.

So no need to mix media.

The erg won't be relevant.

It is just a winter training tool for OTW rowing.

My prediction:

When I am fully prepared to race OTW, as I will be in a couple of years, unless Mike can get the rate up further over both 1K and 5K, he won't beat me OTW, either at the Nationals or at HOCR.

ranger

Two points.

1. Ranger, you may race Mike - in a heat. You won't make it past the heats because your OTW technique is just awful. Horrid. Stunningly, amazingly, impossibly, really bad. Even if you could pull as hard as Mike, you sure as hell can't do it OTW. Your technique is abysmal. And because you are the lone autodidact on this forum, your technique will always, inevitably, ineluctably, remain abysmal.

2. Your ignorance of OTW rowing is painfully evident. What makes you think you will race the HOCR the same year you turn 60?

Therefore, my turn to predict.

The only way you will see Mike during a race is if you buy a ticket.

[ranger]

45:00.0 - 11430 - 1:58.1 - 19 - 128

That is only 11.2 SPI clearly you don't row well.

BTW ranger, Mike's performance at the nationals in August far exceeds anything you have or will ever do on the erg.

No, for relaxed, low HR rowing, _recovery_ rowing, this is rowing _very_ well.

As I have mentioned, there is nothing at all wrong with Mike's technique.

The issue is not stroking power but rate.

For this sort of relaxed rowing, Mike and I are using exactly the same stroke, 11-12 SPI.

That's an excellent distance stroke for a lightweight of any age.

The issue in presharpening, then, is: how high can we rev the rate in our threshold, distance rowing?

If Mike holds his technique in place, as he certainly can, he will get something like this:

1:50 @ 25 spm
1:48 @ 26 spm
1:46 @ 27 spm
1:44 @ 28 spm
1:42 @ 29 spm
1:40 @ 30 spm

This is great stuff.

Top-end UT1.

Threshold rowing.

The heart of the matter, when you are training for this sport.

So, here's the question:

How high can Mike get the rate when he rows for an hour?

Holding his technique steady, to this point, he hasn't even gotten to 25 spm.

The best lightweights get all the way to 30 spm.

Why hasn't Mike gotten to 30 spm?

That's crystal clear.

His low maxHR.

Mike's anaerobic threshold is 145 bpm.

I row paces at right about the same HR as Mike, but my anaerobic threshold is 172 bpm.

Makes a difference.

When I do 60min, I end with a HR of 185 bpm, building up over my anaerobic threshold over the last couple of Ks, like I was doing an AT 5K.

ranger

[ranger]

Try 4 x 2K, or 4 x 1K, or 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), or 5K, or 60min.

Those will give you a 2K prediction.

60min is done at 2K + 10.

5K is done at 2K + 5.

4 x 2K is done at 2K + 4.

4 x 1K is done at 2K.

8 x 500m (3:30 rest) is done at 2K - 3.

ranger

Remind us again which ones of these you have done lately?

None?

Oh yea, that's what I thought!

The sessions I list above are good sharpening.

Mike is sharpening now, well up over his anaerobic threshold.

So he should be doing workouts of this sort.

I am not quite there yet.

But I soon will be.

True, as I have mentioned ad nauseum, I haven't sharpened since 2003.

Heck, I haven't even been doing distance rowing, until the last six months.

I have just been doing low rate, foundational training, working on technique.

On the basis of foundational training only, last year, I pulled 6:41 for 2K.

I get about a dozen seconds each over 2k from distance rowing and sharpening.

So it will indeed be interesting to see what I can pull this year when I am fully trained.

This year, I have been doing distance rowing for six months or so.

I will be sharpening over the next six weeks.

The difference between Mike's preparation and mine?

Mike doesn't do any foundational rowing at all (as it should be done, I think, at 13-15 SPI for an elite lightweight)--or cross-training.

When he isn't doing distance rowing or sharpening, he just rests.

I like to work hard every day.

I both row hard every day and extensively cross-train.

And I have now done half a decade of quality foundational rowing as it should be done for an elite lightweight (at 13-15 SPI).

Mike likes to brag about how little work he does.

Baffling stuff.

No elite rower in their right mind would brag about lack of commitment and laziness--taking it easy.

ranger

[ranger]

Try 4 x 2K, or 4 x 1K, or 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), or 5K, or 60min.

Those will give you a 2K prediction.

60min is done at 2K + 10.

5K is done at 2K + 5.

4 x 2K is done at 2K + 4.

4 x 1K is done at 2K.

8 x 500m (3:30 rest) is done at 2K - 3.

ranger

Remind us again which ones of these you have done lately?

None?

Oh yea, that's what I thought!

If you know how to sharpen and have done it well, you can do it whenever you want.

But sharpening, over and over, harder and harder, will not make you one whit better.

You only get better by building a better training base.

Sharpening just brings out the potential you build up in your training base.

In 2002-2003, I had a training base that, when I was fully sharpened, supported a 6:28 2K.

I now have a training base that can support a 6:16 2K.

ranger

[ranger]

To be where I am with his base, Mike needs to lock on to 1:48 @ 25 spm (11.1 SPI) and do it for 30K, steady state, at a HR of 130 bpm, low UT1.

Can he do this?

At the moment, he pulls 10 seconds per 500m off of that.

Stroking power (technique) is no issue.

We are using exactly the same stroke.

The issue is endurance (musuclar _and_ physioilogical), aerobic capacity, and efficiency.

30K, 1:48 @ 25 spm, was just what Mike Caviston would do for Level 3 rows just before WIRC 2002, when he set the 40s lwt WR.

ranger

[ranger]

Come and sit in the stands in Boston next month after you fail to make weight.

I don't have to make weight to row.

I can win the 55s hwts.

Then again, my weight this year is _much_ better than last year, and last year I made weight at every race I went to.

ranger

To quote the great Billy Gibbons, Haw haw haw haw.

Even assuming Dick Cashin won't show, how are you going to beat Steve Krum? He's already posted a 6:21 and change in training. And he'll be 55 in Boston.

Over the next few weeks, I will break Krum's 50s hwt WR for 60min, perhaps by as much as 500m (2 seconds per 500m), rowing as a 59-year-old lightweight.

No laughing matter, especially for someone such as you who does no such training at all, avoiding your weaknesses like a scared-i-cat.

Avoiding weaknesses is a widespread modern disease.

In the news of the day, Tiger Woods is out latest illustration.

This is how the world ends.

Not with a bang but a wimper.

Race that training, folks!

Race that training.

Why?

It _looks_ good, even if it avoids everything that matters.

The erg is a truth machine.

In this sport, truth will out, sooner than later.

ranger

[ranger]

Wow.

I've _really_ hit a stride now.

1:45 @ 28 spm at middlin' UT1.

I love UT1 rowing.

It is my natural mode.

I am a distance specialist.

Hey!

Tell you what.

The game is won.



From now on, in my day to day training, as the days, months, and years roll by, every morning, I can just sit down on the erg, put it on 1:45 @ 28 spm, and row.

_Spectacular_ training for someone my age and weight.

No 60s lwt has ever pulled even 1:52/16K for 60min.

Fully trained, I can pull middlin' UT1 for a HM, like a walk in the park, watching the passing parade.

HM.

That's my normal session on the erg: 20K.

Back in 2002-2003, I would indeed get to 1:45 toward the _ends_ of my 60min rows, but my normal pace was something closer to 1:52 or so.

There's that seven seconds per 500m again!

50 watts.

1:52 is 250 watts.

1:45 is 300 watts.

At 28 spm, 50 watts is right around 2 SPI.

1:52 @ 28 spm is 8.9 SPI.

1:45 @ 28 spm is 10.8 SPI.

If you are a lightweight and row well (13 SPI) when you take a full, firm stroke, 10.8 SPI is _very_ light rowing.

No effort at all.

ranger