What Training Have You Done Today?

[nick rockliff]

I like to finish the week with a more testing session. Put a 10k on the PM5 and set off at r20. Thought I'd have a bit of a play with the pace by reducing it by 0.1 then a push at the end.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
39:42.1 10,000m 1:59.1 207 1012 20 139
3:59.6 1,000m 1:59.8 204 1000 20 123
3:59.5 2,000m 1:59.7 204 1001 20 130
3:59.3 3,000m 1:59.6 204 1003 20 133
3:59.0 4,000m 1:59.5 205 1005 20 136
3:58.8 5,000m 1:59.4 206 1007 20 140
3:58.6 6,000m 1:59.3 206 1009 20 142
3:58.5 7,000m 1:59.2 206 1010 20 145
3:58.3 8,000m 1:59.1 207 1012 20 147
3:58.0 9,000m 1:59.0 208 1014 20 149
3:52.5 10,000m 1:56.2 223 1066 20 152

Testing the concentration but not too hard.

[p_b82]

Wednesday I binned my planned session, either the 6k TT took more out of me than I thought, or the poor sleep and pulled neck muscle finally caught up - but a 45min middling row was just not going to happen
15/01/25 3,511m 15:04.7 2:08.8
binned a 300w 2 min before the end as well.
15/01/25 371m 1:18.2 1:45.3

not loads of time as it was car servicing day (30mins away - and as a side note I re-learnt I detest modern crossovers), so went for an over/unders

Unders were just "what felt ok while I re-gained some breath"; overs were "what I thought I could do for 4 mins consistently with good form"
still felt junky though.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
20:00.0 4,708m 2:07.4 169 881 22
4:00.0 960m 2:05.0 179 916 22
8:00.0 888m 2:15.1 142 788 21
12:00.0 995m 2:00.6 200 986 25
16:00.0 897m 2:13.7 146 803 22
20:00.0 968m 2:03.9 184 932 24

[Jbrown1215]

While I'm seeing great results, this plan has been a bit mentally taxing at times though, as there are no truly "easy" workouts. There is zero steady state in the program to speak of

UT2 / steady state doesn't exist in John's world, but you cannot fault his results even if you don't agree with his methods.

He is the epitome of the 'go hard or go home' crew and a great example of how not everything you believe is always true, ie not every programme / athlete needs to have lots of steady state.

Variety, indeed, may be the spice that many of us need to keep things interesting in this otherwise monotonous sport!

Prior to starting JD's plan I would've looked at his methods with a very skeptical eye, thinking it's too many hard workouts stacked on top of one another without adequate rest/recovery, and while it's almost certainly not a sustainable way for me to train long term more so due to the mental focus / energy required, it's worked wonders over the ~11 weeks so far. The man knows what he's doing!

[Jbrown1215]

Re-rowed the CTC 5k on Wednesday:

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
16:38.1	5,000m	1:39.8	352	1511	30
3:19.3	1,000m	1:39.6	354	1517	30
3:20.3	2,000m	1:40.1	348	1499	30
3:20.2	3,000m	1:40.1	349	1500	30
3:20.3	4,000m	1:40.1	348	1499	31
3:18.1	5,000m	1:39.0	360	1539	32

Plan was to focus on stroke rate and sitting on r30 for this one, letting the splits fall where they may. Was feeling the bite by the halfway point and had to dig my heels in through the second half. A solid age-group marker for me and nice to rediscover a bit of confidence in the mid-distances after having done so much sprinting the last couple months. I'm excited to focus more on mid-to-longer distances again after my upcoming 2k comps (I'm itching to try and better my HM PB), and finally hit the weights again!

Raw unedited vid of the 5k here, grunting and all: https://youtu.be/xnfzEX3DsmE

[Ron Ergs]

Been following the forum for some time but this is my first post. Figured I'd just jump right in.

I had been rowing really well at lightweight in August and September, but I got sick mid October and that, combined with fully enjoying the holidays, turned into a couple months of inconsistency and putting on weight. I'm currently working to drop a few pounds to get back down into the mid 160s by upping the volume and training for a marathon.

I've been doing a half marathon on slides every Friday so far in January.
 1/3 - 1:25:19.4 | 2:01.3
1/10 - 1:22:38.7 | 1:57.5
1/17 - 1:20:44.1 | 1:54.8 <- Today

Rowed the first half in the 1:55s and then the second half splits were between 1:53.9 and 1:54.1. I found the second half to definitely require effort but it was manageable. I considered lowering the splits at 6k left but decided instead to keep it steady and save my legs so that I'll be fresher for an interval/lifting session I have planned for tomorrow. I had originally planned to do another half next Friday but I think I've gotten the mental confidence I was looking for and I'm ready to shift to faster 4k intervals in prep for the marathon instead while I'm working to get back to lightweight territory.

[Dangerscouse]

Very solid 15k session, absolutely nothing to complain about in this

Wierd how the mind varies Stu, but a fast pace for someone only just deciding to row.

It never fails to amaze me that you can pull out something that you just never had the slightest bit of confidence was possible only five minutes beforehand. I was so so close to reading my book, but something managed to get me on Cynthia. I'm not even sure it was discipline, as that just didn't seem to be registering either.

[Dangerscouse]

I had originally planned to do another half next Friday but I think I've gotten the mental confidence I was looking for and I'm ready to shift to faster 4k intervals in prep for the marathon instead while I'm working to get back to lightweight territory.

Welcome to the forum. They're great results so far, but what does the 4k intervals session look like, and what is their purpose for the FM?

Have you done longer than a HM distance?

[Ron Ergs]

Welcome to the forum. They're great results so far, but what does the 4k intervals session look like, and what is their purpose for the FM?

Have you done longer than a HM distance?

Thanks! Happy to get a chance to learn from everyone here!

As far as the 4k intervals -> personal belief I've developed over time (whether right or wrong) is that interval sessions are an important of preparation for me and I haven't incorporated them into my training since last fall - so I guess it's more just getting back to what I believe in. My three favorite workouts are 4min/1min rest, 1k/1min rest, 2k/90sec rest (I recognize these are all pretty similar). For the FM I figured I'd double the length to 4k - it's about 10% of the marathon distance and the thinking in my head goes that if I do a solid 6or7 x4k w/ 2min rest I'll have a good sense of how to pace the first half of a full.

re: the distance -> I've never done longer than a HM on a rower - but I've done 100miles plus on a bike many times and run marathons. I'm hoping those experiences, combined with the halfs i've been doing, and the 60rate20s on the static I've been doing twice a week means I've got the endurance but I could absolutely be fooling myself!

[Sakly]

re: the distance -> I've never done longer than a HM on a rower - but I've done 100miles plus on a bike many times and run marathons. I'm hoping those experiences, combined with the halfs i've been doing, and the 60rate20s on the static I've been doing twice a week means I've got the endurance but I could absolutely be fooling myself!

Welcome from my side as well

I think endurance will not be a problem at all, based on your background.
But keep in mind that rowing requires much more peak force compared to running and cycling. This means muscular fatigue over time is probably a bigger thing in the second half of a marathon compared to running/cycling. I would suggest to have at least one training session going for 30k or something to see if muscular fatigue is in check, too.
I'm also preparing for a marathon currently

[Dangerscouse]

1:05:55.2 16,093m 2:02.8 189 949 19 127
12:19.9 3,000m 2:03.3 187 942 20 120
12:17.6 6,000m 2:02.9 188 948 19 127
12:15.3 9,000m 2:02.5 190 954 19 128
12:15.9 12,000m 2:02.6 190 952 19 130
12:18.3 15,000m 2:03.0 188 946 19 130
4:28.2 16,093m 2:02.6 190 952 19 132

My enthusiasm was more or less back to normal, but I felt a bit jaded

[Dangerscouse]

re: the distance -> I've never done longer than a HM on a rower - but I've done 100miles plus on a bike many times and run marathons. I'm hoping those experiences, combined with the halfs i've been doing, and the 60rate20s on the static I've been doing twice a week means I've got the endurance but I could absolutely be fooling myself!

Ime, and YMMV, there's a world of difference between a HM and FM, and a 60r20 isn't even slightly similar. I always recommend ideally doing 32- 35k as you are essentially training for the last 10k of an FM, as you probably know from your previous experience. This is the minefield section where anything can happen and you can all too easily be derailed.

My concern with your training is that you're doing 28k at most and there's quite long and regular rests. This isn't going to give you a good indicator of what 28k will feel like, never mind an FM. At the very least you should do 28k with no rests, with the added bonus that it will save 12 mins in rest periods.

Atm, you're showing really good potential, but the cliff edge is currently not identified so you don't have any tangible evidence of how you'll react when it inevitably gets messy. Hopefully you'll cope and it'll bounce off you, but if it doesn't, you really don't want that first experience of it to be during your first FM.

What's your target pace & time? I assume that your HMs are done as a single piece and not with rests, but I just want to be sure?

[p_b82]

Thanks! Happy to get a chance to learn from everyone here!

As far as the 4k intervals -> personal belief I've developed over time (whether right or wrong) is that interval sessions are an important of preparation for me and I haven't incorporated them into my training since last fall - so I guess it's more just getting back to what I believe in. My three favorite workouts are 4min/1min rest, 1k/1min rest, 2k/90sec rest (I recognize these are all pretty similar). For the FM I figured I'd double the length to 4k - it's about 10% of the marathon distance and the thinking in my head goes that if I do a solid 6or7 x4k w/ 2min rest I'll have a good sense of how to pace the first half of a full.

re: the distance -> I've never done longer than a HM on a rower - but I've done 100miles plus on a bike many times and run marathons. I'm hoping those experiences, combined with the halfs i've been doing, and the 60rate20s on the static I've been doing twice a week means I've got the endurance but I could absolutely be fooling myself!

Welcome and good luck in your training for the FM - just going to echo what Stu has already said, you really do need to do something close to the full distance a couple of times at least in your build up.

If nothing else it will enable you to tweak your fuelling strategy, and see if you get any really big blips at a specific point along the way - I used 4500m for my FM splits, so I had one final "easy" run into the finish.

I only managed 3 test rows in my buildup due to an injury compressing my schedule, a 24k 2 months out, 27k a month out, and 30k 2 weeks before - personally I'd wished I'd got a 35k in as well, there was a big difference for me at 30k, knowing there was still about an hour still to do & actually doing that final hour on the marathon itself - 30k+ in unknown territory was mentally one of the hardest things I've done to keep sliding back and forwards - luckily however, I got a 2nd wind at the 3hr point and pushed on to the finish to make up some lost time.

there's a good thread discussing the endurance distances in this section - it's a long read, but has some very useful info in there.

I followed a truncated version of the 80k c2 training plan - the mix of sessions and incremental training load really helped keep me focused and helped me set my expectations.

[petererg]

45 min at 2:00 Target. I started a bit faster.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
45:44.3 11,497m 1:59.3 206 1008 25
6:00.0 1,510m 1:59.2 207 1011 24
12:00.0 1,517m 1:58.6 210 1021 25
18:00.0 1,511m 1:59.1 207 1012 25
24:00.0 1,515m 1:58.8 209 1018 26
30:00.0 1,506m 1:59.5 205 1005 25
36:00.0 1,503m 1:59.7 204 1001 26
42:00.0 1,501m 1:59.9 203 998 25
45:44.3 935m 1:59.9 203 998 25

[reuben]

Slogged through 7500m of steady state muck and mire. Not feeling motivated lately. Barely did anything last week - erg, cycling, yoga, strength, or anything else. At least I got my butt in the seat for a while. Tomorrow should be a day for the bike trainer. Should be. And honestly, every day should be a yoga day, especially the type I do.

Another 7500m steady state. I didn't feel energetic or motivated (again), but somehow managed to maintain a pace that was 4-5s faster than ever for this type of distance. Just when I thought I had zeroed in on my SS pace and spm!

I figured I'd fall off a cliff in the last 1 or 2k, but decided to just keep going and see what happened. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, eh? Tomorrow's a rest day - no erg, bike, or strength, but hopefully some long duration yoga. I guess next week I'll find out if this was just a lucky aberration or a new normal.

Some things just can't be explained.

[Ron Ergs]

Huge thanks for the warm welcome from Sakly , P_b82 and Dangerscouse - your responses make me super glad I decided to start posting! Lots of great experience and thoughts for me to consider and incorporate! I'll be sure to continue to update my approach and read through past threads.

I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll offer just some quick responses here - I'll be certain to post in other threads as more questions come up.

Re: the three halfs being non-stop -> yes. The first and third were both one go - no stops/no fueling/no hydration. During the second one I had Clif Bloks within arms reach and ate a few but similarly otherwise no rest/no hydration (clearly this is not optimal...).

Muscular fatigue requiring different preparation is giving me lots to think about. Overall your responses helped me think more about what I want out of the marathon and I think the honest answer is that I see it as a mix of accomplishing a mini milestone (first FM on rower) with a self imposed challenge/punishment(?) for being inconsistent and putting on weight over the holidays. I don't see it as me trying to get the absolute best out of myself.
Maybe to put it another way - I realize I'd rather go for the marathon as soon as I'm back at lightweight (8 pounds to go) even if the experience of the marathon ends up being way more of a challenge than I'm prepared for.. Right now my thinking is that I'll try to pull a 1:59.9 (I know that number shouldn't matter but I have to admit that it does to me...) and if I end up falling short b/c of being underprepared that's ok because I'll have one in the logbook and then I'll be ready to move on to what I actually want to be doing -> specific training aimed at goals for the 30 min / 60 min efforts. I might do a 30k+ before the effort - maybe Friday instead of those 4k intervals I'd thrown out.

Thanks again - I'll keep thinking and reading. I'll post an update in the personal best thread once I have a result since even if it goes poorly it'll be a PB hahaha.