Ut2!!

[old] Mark Keating · Post by **[old] Mark Keating** » January 5th, 2005, 10:33 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Mel Harbour @ Jan 5 2005, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Your warm-up is a good time to stick in a few technical exercises, the classics being building up the stroke from one end or the other. Mel </td></tr></table> What's this about Mel?

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » January 5th, 2005, 11:47 pm

Hi Paul, your right my heart rate at 140 would be the same at what ever the rate or pace - 140 But I have found in very limited testing that my heart rate elevates for the same pace if the rate used to achieve it is higher. I do know tho that 6:20 at about 32spm is about 10mps I think so which ever way one goes about it your formula at the end of the day will fit me - to be honest I dont know which methiod is better or that they need to be exclusive. George

[old] Mel Harbour · Post by **[old] Mel Harbour** » January 6th, 2005, 3:12 am

A slide build from 'backstops' (the end of the drive) would go something like: Arms Only (keep body/head perfectly still) Arms+Body Swing 1/4 slide 1/2 slide 3/4 slide Full slide Mel

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 6th, 2005, 4:20 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Maybe Ranger is under the impression that training "a lot" at S10PS does not prepare someone to pull High SPI, and he may be right, after all, I can only get to about an SPI of 18 while maintaining S10PS, and not for very long </td></tr></table> Exactly my point. Then I would add this: At the same stroke rate, wattage/pace depends on efficient stroking power, SPI. With lightweights at least, I think that this issue of efficient stroking power is central. Quality lightweights such as Dan Staite can row along efficiently at 1:46 and 24 spm (12.3 SPI) and then open up the rate at the end--a demonstration of strong and efficient stroking power, good technique. Following the C2 manual, 1:46 and 24 spm is just Dan's UT1 pace. Observation: Not many lightweights can do this; and not many lightweights can beat Dan in a 2K. I don't know about other lightweights (of whatever age), but personally, I would be delighted with 6:17 (or so). ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 6th, 2005, 4:26 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> didn't say it did, all I said was that one could choose to stay within a 'HR' band using the s10mps or at low rates..... the long term effect of either methodologies was not mentioned.  </td></tr></table> Ah, sorry. I misunderstood you. Actually, I think the experience of most people is the reverse of yours. It is easier to stay at the HR band at 10MPS than at lower stroke rates. So 10MPS might indeed be better for CV training. Rowing also involves stroking power, though, and in central ways. As a result, developing stroking power _while_ you are developing CV capacities, I think, is the better way to go. ranger

[old] MarcusLL · Post by **[old] MarcusLL** » January 6th, 2005, 7:57 am

Hi George <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Eg I know that my HR would be a lot higher at 2:00/25spm than 2:00/20spm ... now whether that is good or bad I honestly dont know. </td></tr></table> Is that really really true? Not doubting you - I only ask because I'm exactly the opposite - I know that when I do a 30 min piece at 20 spm my heart rate is way higher than it would be if I were to do a 30 min piece at the same pace but a free rate. Could it be that you get the above effect because neither of those rate/pace combinations would be particularly difficult for you - so the effort involved in the rowing doesn't make much difference whereas because you're quite a big guy shuttling yourself backwards and forwards an extra 5 times a minute is enough of an effort to increase your hr?

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 6th, 2005, 11:17 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm exactly the opposite </td></tr></table> Me, too. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 6th, 2005, 11:18 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Could it be that you get the above effect because neither of those rate/pace combinations would be particularly difficult for you - so the effort involved in the rowing doesn't make much difference whereas because you're quite a big guy shuttling yourself backwards and forwards an extra 5 times a minute is enough of an effort to increase your hr?  </td></tr></table>

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 6th, 2005, 11:20 am

George-- Sounds as though relaxation and efficiency might be issues for you, too, if 25 spm is harder than 20. ranger

[old] Don Seymour · Post by **[old] Don Seymour** » January 7th, 2005, 2:28 am

Hi, Does anyone know the formula that converts 500 meter pace to watts on the monitor? I did a little search and found some examples such as 1:43 = 320.4 and 1:37.5 = 378 but no formula anywhere that I could see. Thanks, Don

[old] Mel Harbour · Post by **[old] Mel Harbour** » January 7th, 2005, 3:50 am

Roughly speaking, the relationship is that: P = 2.8 * (v^3) Where P = power in watts, and v = speed in m/s. (^3 means 'cubed'). Interestingly, the Rowperfect software uses a similar formula to perform its calculations. They also use the cubed relationship, but alter the '2.8' number depending on the boat type you are in (8s move faster than singles). However a side by side comparison of the numbers generated by Rowperfect software and C2 monitor gives data which does not obey a straight line (proportional) relationship. C2 obviously therefore uses a somewhat different fomula, which is intriguing in itself. Mel

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 7th, 2005, 11:22 am

When I used a RP there was a setting for C2 that I think was supposed to mimic the Model B (the current C2 at the time the RP was created). The Model B does not have a straight line relationship with the Model C or D, actually it's the Monitors themselves, the PM1 is different than the PM2 or PM3. So a guess would be that the RP software is similar to the PM1 when in C2 mode. For the rest of the boats, we can only make guesses as to what teh "2.8" has been changed to, unless you know for sure, and that would be very useful information.

[old] Mel Harbour · Post by **[old] Mel Harbour** » January 7th, 2005, 11:48 am

The 'Concept2' setting doesn't change the formula, it was only used in testing AFAIK. I can't remember what the actual significance of it was. To get their boat correction factors, I guess all that you'd have to do is ask Cas, he's usually pretty helpful. Although I wouldn't go round calling it a 'Rowperfect ergo' in his presence! Mel

[old] Byron Drachman · Post by **[old] Byron Drachman** » January 7th, 2005, 11:55 am

I realized today that another benefit of the interactive 2K program(me) is that it forces me to stay well hydrated. Mel and others have pointed out that the heart rate increases during a workout mainly because of dehydration. Did I say that right? Anyway, if I'm going to row at the specified pace and stroke per minute with the heart rate limited at its specified rate, I find myself drinking much more while rowing or during the rest periods during intervals. Otherwise I would just get a little thirsty and drink some during the workout and drink a lot afterwards--not good for sticking to the program and not good for the kidneys. Byron

[old] Don Seymour · Post by **[old] Don Seymour** » January 7th, 2005, 12:51 pm

Does anyone have a chart then that shows pace and corresponding watts? If my goal is to row 1:50 pace for 5k @ 30, I want to know what pace I should be rowing @ 28, 26, 24, 22 etc... so that the SPI is the same over these rates. So far I've been estimating and rowing 4 seconds per 500 slower for every 2 beat drop in rate which feels about right but I'd like to do the SPI calculations. Thanks, Don

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