weight loss and rowing

[jackarabit]

I would be over the moon If I could average 2' splits over an hour. I would also be dead soon thereafter if not during. Jack

[Machinerow8]

Good point. And I don't know that I can contribute all of my weight loss this week to rowing because I stopped drinking pop the day I started rowing. I figured that if I was going to be rowing every day, why lose all that work for a pop loaded with sugar/calories, or a diet pop loaded with excitotoxins and chemicals. Anyways, that probably had a big effect on my weight and I'm not sure I have the willpower to stay away from it indefinitely. As for my rowing times, I feel the same way about needing to use a concept to compare times.. I have access to a concept at the school I work at.. Problem is, unless my boyfriend is home before I am (rare) then I have to race home after work to let my dogs out every day and I don't live close enough to go back. Last time I rowed on a concept, it was after taking an hour long cardio class at the YMCA with my students and I rowed 11k in 57mins. I usually have to stop rowing and/or get off the machine several times to assist students though so the workout was never as vigorous or as uninterrupted as it is at home. Doing 15k in 60mins is definitely a REALLY vigorous workout for me. I have to push myself to stay at the 2minute pace. I wouldn't say that my rowing machine time/distance is accurate, but I wouldn't say its necessarily inaccurate either. My boyfriend rows on my machine too and he hardly comes close to my distance per time.

[jackarabit]

Can you develop your own conversion factor between the C2 at your school and the SOB (Some Other Brand) at home? The ergonometer has a long history as a horsepower measurement device going back to the days of water power. The C2 is touted as a true ergonometer and just has to be accurate, doesn't it? Joking aside, I'm not a physicist or mathematician and hardly equipped to determine whether the C2 is the gold standard of accuracy. It is the lingua Franca among those who train and race on rowing simulators and the de facto standard.

I can relate to 12K- per hr. 15 is fabulous! Many of the fellers here will tell you that the weight you want to lose is better never taken aboard. Dropping the sody pop is a great choice health wise and may be responsible, in combination with your active working life, for the rate of weight loss you've observed recently. Congratulations! Jack

[tpk]

If your generously assume that rowing burns 1000 calories an hour ...

One thing I've never been able to get a straight answer on is, do calorie per hour values (e.g. here http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-livin ... t-20050999) typically include or exclude basal metabolic rate. Assume a BMR of B (something in the order of 100 cals/hr maybe?). And assume a quoted R calories per hour for "calories per hour burned by rowing" (in your example, 1000). Then is the typical measurement quoted such that the *total* cals burned in the hour of rowing is B+R, or is it simply R? I've always assumed the latter, but as I say I've never been able to get a straight answer.

tpk

[Bob S.]

If your generously assume that rowing burns 1000 calories an hour ...

One thing I've never been able to get a straight answer on is, do calorie per hour values (e.g. here http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-livin ... t-20050999) typically include or exclude basal metabolic rate. Assume a BMR of B (something in the order of 100 cals/hr maybe?). And assume a quoted R calories per hour for "calories per hour burned by rowing" (in your example, 1000). Then is the typical measurement quoted such that the *total* cals burned in the hour of rowing is B+R, or is it simply R? I've always assumed the latter, but as I say I've never been able to get a straight answer.

tpk

The following quote from "The Physics of Rowing" {http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/ ... #section11} does not give the breakdown, but it does discuss the extra Calories/hour shown on the C2 monitors.

11. Power v. Indicated Calories
The Concept Model C also has a 'Calories' display as a (very) rough guide to how many calories an average individual has burned up in a piece. This is not the same as the mechanical work done.
Mechanical work W (a type of Energy) is defined as the average Power x time:
(11.1) W = P t
If Power P is measured in Watts and time t in seconds, then the Work W is obtained in Joules. So, rowing a steady 200W for 30 minutes, you would generate an amount of mechanical work
(11.2) W = 200 x 1800 = 360 000 J = 360 kJ
In physics, a 'calorie' is defined as the amount of heat energy required to raise the temperature of 1 gramme of water by 1 degree centigrade, giving 1 calorie = 4.2 Joules. Dieticians, on the other hand, use the term 'calories' differently - their 'calories' are 1000 times bigger ('kilo-calories', kC), so dividing 360 kJ by 4.2 gives the mechanical work done in terms of 'dietary calories': 85.6 kC
However, for the above workout you would actually get a displayed value approaching 500 kC, i.e. a factor 5 - 6 times larger. This is because the computer attempts to calculate the number of calories you burn up (effectively chemical energy contained in fats and carbohydrates) in order to generate the mechanical work. It uses the formula
(11.3) E = ( 4 W + 0.35 t ) / 4.2 [kC]
where E is the displayed number of calories [kC], W is the mechanical work in kJ, calculated according to Eq. (11.1), t is the time in seconds. This assumes that the body actually requires 4 units of chemical energy to generate 1 unit of mechanical energy (i.e. 25% efficiency) plus a background consumption of 0.35 kJ/sec (=300 kC/hour).

Comment Jon Williams of Concept2 (12 Aug 04)
The 300 kC/hour has always been our best approximation for keeping alive and awake and going through the rowing motion at a reasonable stroke rate on an erg with the flywheel removed. This was arrived at from internal experiments and observations, data from Fritz Hagerman and studies done at Ball State.
For the above workout this would give
(11.4) E = ( 4.0 x 360 + 0.35 x 1800 ) / 4.2 = 493 [kC]

The 'Calorie' output on a Concept ergometer is an approximate guide to calories [kC] burned rather than mechanical work performed

Note that the number of total extra C/hr is 300 and the whole thing is multiplied by 4 to account for an estimated 25% efficiency of the human body as a fuel burning machine. If 100 C/hr are being used just to keep the "engine" alive, then that 300 C/hr presumably includes 25 C/hr for BMR. The rest is for external work done that is not measured by the monitor, mainly the work done moving the body up and down the slide.

Bob S.

[Bighairybeast]

Unless I missed it, I never saw mentioned that muscle weighs more than fat. I agree with longer intervals between weighing yourself to avoid disappointments of looking at the scale daily. I always believe the best gauge is to look in the mirror and go by the extra energy that you feel on a day to day basis as a result of better eating and increased exercise!

[jamesg]

This is what wikipedia says about it, confirmed by many other sites. Let's hope they don't all take their data from the same incorrect origin:

Physical properties
Adipose tissue has a density of ~0.9 g/ml. Thus, a person with more adipose tissue will float more easily than a person of the same weight with more muscular tissue, since muscular tissue has a density of 1.06 g/ml.

Presumably adipose tissue also contains a lot of water; pure fats have densities 0.8 - 0.9 g/ml I believe.

[drbol]

Unless I missed it, I never saw mentioned that muscle weighs more than fat. I agree with longer intervals between weighing yourself to avoid disappointments of looking at the scale daily. I always believe the best gauge is to look in the mirror and go by the extra energy that you feel on a day to day basis as a result of better eating and increased exercise!

I like the above post. I have tried some stupid diets to maintain my weight and/or lose weight. I am older and wiser now and look back on crash diets and shake my head. I knew at the time it was not the right way to drop some weight but did it anyway. I have been rowing off and on, on a concept2 at my work. My wife and I decided to pick up a rower and I new exactly which one to get. I now have a model D in my bedroom. I am more energized and get an awesome workout without feeling beat up and feel pain for days.

So, I agree with the extra energy and how I feel and look in the mirror to judge my progress. I also have been sleeping better at night and wake up feeling rested. I am learning a lot and look forward to a life of rowing. I know my Concept will last me well into the years. I am primarily a cyclist (Mountain and Road) and I know rowing has helped my fitness level. I only wish I had done this sooner. Anyway I do not have much feedback on the techs of this sport. But I appreciate those who do and share the information for guys like me that are new.

[herrpressey]

Thanks for the posts, all.

I row about 11,500 or 12k per hour or perhaps a little more with the right motivation. (Like blaring some Green Day thru headphones.)

But lately it's taken longer than an hour, just to rehab from a sore left shoulder. (You definitely gotta have patience during those times.)

But from your posts, I realized that I need to up the ante to use that time more effectively. If I'm not sweating after an hour, then really all I'm doing is maintaining and logging the meters. But to lose those 10 pounds around my "equatorial bulge," it'll take a little more oomph on my part.

Cheers and happy rowing.