Runners Thread

[[old] Samroot]

This weekend is my last chance to go long before my marathon. It looks weather wise I'll do it tomorrow,barefoot up at the high school 2.2k grass loop I've been running on. Hopefully I can get in something in the neighborhood 2.5 to 3.25 hrs. I may take off today. The last one-a 21 miler in a shade over 3 hrs.,and 8:34 min./mile was a revelation in how well I came thruogh it physichally by doiing it barefoot on grass. Normally I'd have to take off a day or two to recover,instead I was able to run a 6k in the morning and a 4k that night,the next day.<br /><br />I feel most of the stress in the tendons in the forefoot,on top and outside of my feet,which I believe to be consistent with the underpronation of a high arch,rigid foot runner. I feel a little soreness in one quad and a little bit in one achilles on the other leg,but nothing on the bottom of my feet or in my knees.<br /><br />In resurrecting a recent discussion on quantity vs. quality or LSD vs threshold,in run training,I favor a hybrid of both. Its a long workout that was chronicled in Runners World by Owen Anderson when he used to write the 'Fast Lane' column. If I recall, it had you running the last third of a long run,uptempo after running the first two thirds slow or slower. For example,an 18 miler,the first 12 in 8 to 9 min.,the last 6 in 7 to 8 min. pace. The premise being- a means of training your body to run hard when your tired.<br /><br />I'm blessed to be trained by the 'Lydiard of labrador retrievers'-he's broken me in on the barefoot thing. Next year he'll have me doing uptempo 5ks with a plush toy in my mouth. Next summer he'll add the heat tolerance training-running in a wool overcoat. He's a proponent of sniff breaks even though I'm hopelessly olfactory challenged.

[[old] Bayko]

Best wishes on with the marathon Sam. It sounds like things are going well.<br /><br />The accelerating long run was used by Kenny Moore back when he was the American record holder at 2:13+ back in 1970. He stayed at Jeff Johnson's house prior to the 1970 Boston Marathon and went out for a 30-miler a week before the race. Johnson accompanied him in a car providing drinks and splits. Jeff swears that Moore did the first 10 miles at 7-minute pace, 11-20 at 6-minute pace and 21-30 at 5-minute pace!<br /><br />A bit faster than guys like us, but the same principle .<br /><br />Rick

[[old] FrancoisA]

<!--QuoteBegin-Samroot+Nov 11 2005, 11:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Samroot @ Nov 11 2005, 11:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm blessed to be trained by  the 'Lydiard of labrador retrievers'-he's broken me  in on the barefoot thing. Next year he'll have me doing uptempo 5ks with a plush toy in my mouth. Next summer he'll add the heat tolerance training-running in a wool overcoat. He's a proponent of sniff breaks even though I'm hopelessly olfactory challenged. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Why not add a little swim after your run; Labradors are quite efficient in the water! <br /><br />I wish you good luck for your marathon!

[[old] Bostonwnb]

<!--QuoteBegin-johnnybike+Nov 5 2005, 12:34 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(johnnybike @ Nov 5 2005, 12:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Samroot said that the UK forum seems more amenable to runners who row and vice versa. This thread is for the USA forumites who also run. Details of races run, good runs or more from Jim Barry extolling the virtues of his Nike Frees can be posted here.<br /><br />As both myself and Jim Barry are running races this weekend I am sure we can post details later.<br /><br />Sam mentioned he might run in the last X/C of the series. When does the X/C season start in the USA, what terrain and distances does it consist of?<br /><br />In the UK we often have a county league of 4 races from October to mid-December. Each one will be 6 miles or so. Normally on parkland, through woods and over a couple of streams. You are expected to get pretty muddy.<br /><br />After Xmas there will be some of the bigger championships. I can compete in the Yorkshire, the Northern and then the Big Daddy, the National. This is a major event with between 1300-1600 runners taking part in a mass cavalry charge to the first corner. Pretty exciting for a spectator but not much fun if you are in stuck in the middle or near the back. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />In amongst all the serious rowers I guess this should start with, "Hello my name is Bert and I am a runner..."<br /><br />I have been running since my last year in high school which was back in South Africa in 1970 and have essentially never quit, with the longest layoff being perhaps 6 months. Not too many injuries either; a bout with iliotibial strain once, some plantar fasciitis, and a couple of pulled calf muscles. The calf injuries were the most 'serious' in the sense that I had to stop running for nearly 6 weeks once. Nowadays I back off at the first sign of calf pain; take a day off, massage, roll it, whatever it takes. I also do as many miles as I can on soft surfaces - we have a nice gravel/grass trail here all along Buffalo Bayou, with zero car traffic. <br /><br />I smoked (and ran) for a while too. Back then I thought that was living a balanced lifestyle... Finally quit the smoking as the running became more serious. First marathon was c. 1991 and I have run one (occasionally 2) every year since then. I am now trying to shed a few of the surplus pounds I have collected over the years, and have stepped up my training, to try to qualify for Boston. Much easier said than done. As I can personally attest, you can 'out-eat' pretty much any exercise program. At times, I gained weight despite running nearly 50 miles per week. <br /><br />However I am on the right track now, and ran a best ever time over 20K a few weeks ago, averaging just on 8 minutes/mile. So if I can stay healthy, and the weather cooperates on the day (of the Houston Marathon in mid Jan 2006) I might just scrape in under 3:35. If not this year, then next. Just started to include erging in the exercise mix, with good results. I have always felt that my upper body is being neglected, just along for the ride, on a run. The rowing should help to maintain some muscle and possibly strengthen the core a bit. We'll see how it goes.<br /><br />Running a 25K this weekend but will probably take it easy as the weather forecast is dismal - the starting temperature will be right around 70F. <br /><br />Bert<br /><br /><br />

[[old] johnnybike]

Welcome Bert (why do you need to qualify for Boston?) I asumed it was one of the big open marathons a la London and New York)<br /><br />Hope the long run and FM goes well Sam.<br /><br />Rick, how could Kenny Moore set out for 10 miles at 2 minutes/mile off his race pace and not be bored out of his brains. I see this LSD stuff and quite honestly after about a HM (half mile not half Marathon !) I am hacked off with it and revert to my normal running pace, which is KM's easy pace.

[[old] Jim Barry]

Best of luck Bostonwnb. Running since 1970 and still into it, that's great. A guy at work has been at this as long and claims over 25,000 miles in his log (around the world as I recall). He is 62 and has a spring in his step like he is 30. I was looking online for what it takes to qualify. I've never run a marathon but based on my 10k, predicted marathon times say I'm close. <br /><br />I'm looking forward to a 18-20k training run this weekend....might even be slow. Could care less. Distance and time on my feet are my biggest challenges to date and I like it for some reason. <br /><br /><br />John, <br /><br />Boston qualifying times: <br /><br />Age.........Men........Women<br />18-34 3hrs 10min 3hrs 40min <br />35-39 3hrs 15min 3hrs 45min <br />40-44 3hrs 20min 3hrs 50min <br />45-49 3hrs 30min 4hrs 00min <br />50-54 3hrs 35min 4hrs 05min <br />55-59 3hrs 45min 4hrs 15min <br />60-64 4hrs 00min 4hrs 30min <br />65-69 4hrs 15min 4hrs 45min <br />70-74 4hrs 30min 5hrs 00min <br />75-79 4hrs 45min 5hrs 15min <br />80 + 5hrs 00min 5hrs 30min

[[old] johnnybike]

<!--QuoteBegin-Jim Barry+Nov 11 2005, 09:48 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Jim Barry @ Nov 11 2005, 09:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />Boston qualifying times:  <br /><br />Age.........Men........Women<br />45-49 3hrs 30min 4hrs 00min <br />50-54 3hrs 35min 4hrs 05min <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well Jim, as you know, subject to resolving my injury problems I have the 2 Oceans Marathon (SA) in my sights. That has a much easier qualifying time of sub 5 hours. Although to be honest if I was not doing sub 3:26 (my first and slowest ever FM I might be re-thinking my strategy).<br /><br />PS <br /><br />When you quote it shows right ... snapback ... right..snapback. What does that do? I always cut it out but I don't see any difference when I leave it in

[[old] Bayko]

<!--QuoteBegin-johnnybike+Nov 11 2005, 10:16 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(johnnybike @ Nov 11 2005, 10:16 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /><br />Rick, how could Kenny Moore set out for 10 miles  at 2 minutes/mile off his race pace and not be bored out of his brains. I see this LSD stuff and quite honestly after about a HM (half mile not half Marathon !) I am hacked off with it and revert to my normal running pace, which is KM's easy pace. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have no idea. My tendancy would be to do as you do. Maybe he used it as a mental exercise as well a physical workout? Moore also would get critical of mileage junkies. Frank Shorter was quoted in the magazines as telling his friend "You SAY that mileage doesn't matter, but you DO mileage the same as the rest of us." <br /><br />Rick<br />

[[old] johnnybike]

I mentiond in my diary a couple of weeks ago about marshallling at a 10 mile trail race called the Harewood Hop that the club puts on each Autumn.<br /><br />Today I received 2 bottles of Harewood Hops a 4.1% bottled beer produced by Briscoes brewery of Otley , West Yorkshire. Conveniently Paul Briscoe is a club member and a good lad to know. He organises a race up and down Otley Chevin each year for a few local clubs. You get to the top and collect a empty pint cup and when you finish you have to swap it for a full pint and down the drink before the time is taken. Last time I did it I paased 6 people by downing the pint quickly.<br />2 girsl dead-heated and had a drink off (they had to drink halves in the race). The drink off was a full pint though and the faster girl who weighed about 7 stone had no chance against the bigger but slower girl who guzzled the beer straight down.<br /><br /><a href='http://freespace.virgin.net/bob.jackson/striders.htm' target='_blank'> Club and Race website </a>

[[old] Alissa]

<!--QuoteBegin-johnnybike+Nov 11 2005, 11:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(johnnybike @ Nov 11 2005, 11:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you quote it shows right ... snapback ... right..snapback. What does that do? I always cut it out but I don't see any difference when I leave it in[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />That text "{right} {snapback}{#####}"{/snapback} {/right}" (with square brackets instead of curly ones and digits in place of #) adds a link to the post you're quoting. By clicking on the little arrow in the pink box on the right side of the quoted material, you'll be taken to the post it quoted (the one in the quote box in my post takes one back to your post). If you take it out, you just remove that link! (It's particularly handy if you quote from a post in another thread...you just need to collect the number that relates to the post you want to refer to...)<br /><br />HTH,<br /><br />Alissa

[[old] johnnybike]

<!--QuoteBegin-Alissa+Nov 12 2005, 12:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Alissa @ Nov 12 2005, 12:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Alissa <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Cheers Alissa, I left it in this time to test it out

[[old] Samroot]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Nov 11 2005, 12:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Nov 11 2005, 12:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Best wishes on with the marathon Sam.  It sounds like things are going well.<br /><br />The accelerating long run was used by Kenny Moore back when he was the American record holder at 2:13+ back in 1970.  He stayed at Jeff Johnson's house prior to the 1970 Boston Marathon and went out for a 30-miler a week before the race.  Johnson accompanied him in a car providing drinks and splits.  Jeff swears that Moore did the first 10 miles at 7-minute pace, 11-20 at 6-minute pace and 21-30 at 5-minute pace!<br /><br />A bit faster than guys like us, but the same principle .<br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks Rick. Thats amazing what he was able to run a week before the race. I remember in my prime doing 10 milers starting out around 7-7:30 and doing the last couple under 6. It felt natural once you got warmed up. Now I just try to get warmed up. <br /><br />The running has been going great. My only regret is I haven't done much erging. But that will all change once I get through the marathon and I'll switch over to more rowing than running.

[[old] Samroot]

<!--QuoteBegin-FrancoisA+Nov 11 2005, 04:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Nov 11 2005, 04:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Samroot+Nov 11 2005, 11:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Samroot @ Nov 11 2005, 11:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm blessed to be trained by  the 'Lydiard of labrador retrievers'-he's broken me  in on the barefoot thing. Next year he'll have me doing uptempo 5ks with a plush toy in my mouth. Next summer he'll add the heat tolerance training-running in a wool overcoat. He's a proponent of sniff breaks even though I'm hopelessly olfactory challenged. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Why not add a little swim after your run; Labradors are quite efficient in the water! <br /><br />I wish you good luck for your marathon! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks Francois! <br /><br />Oddly enough,'Mr. Wilson' is not much of a swimmer. He likes to stomp around in the creek out back.but doesn't swim. His original owner threw him in as a puppy and he's been spooked ever since.<br /><br />I've done one triathalon in my life-in San Diego in the early 80s,when I was living there. It was the first one of the USTS series they had just started. It was a month after I had gone under 3 hrs. for the marathon for the first time. I had no body fat on me. The swim was a 2k course off of Torrey Pines. I did the 'gentleman sam breaststroke' the whole way. I was elated to get throogh it without suffering hypothermia!

[[old] Samroot]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bostonwnb+Nov 11 2005, 06:33 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bostonwnb @ Nov 11 2005, 06:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-johnnybike+Nov 5 2005, 12:34 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(johnnybike @ Nov 5 2005, 12:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Samroot said that the UK forum seems more amenable to runners who row and vice versa. This thread is for the USA forumites who also run. Details of races run, good runs or more from Jim Barry extolling the virtues of his Nike Frees can be posted here.<br /><br />As both myself and Jim Barry are running races this weekend I am sure we can post details later.<br /><br />Sam mentioned he might run in the last X/C of the series. When does the X/C season start in the USA, what terrain and distances does it consist of?<br /><br />In the UK we often have a county league of 4 races from October to mid-December. Each one will be 6 miles or so. Normally on parkland, through woods and over a couple of streams. You are expected to get pretty muddy.<br /><br />After Xmas there will be some of the bigger championships. I can compete in the Yorkshire, the Northern and then the Big Daddy, the National. This is a major event with between 1300-1600 runners taking part in a mass cavalry charge to the first corner. Pretty exciting for a spectator but not much fun if you are in stuck in the middle or near the back. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />In amongst all the serious rowers I guess this should start with, "Hello my name is Bert and I am a runner..."<br /><br />I have been running since my last year in high school which was back in South Africa in 1970 and have essentially never quit, with the longest layoff being perhaps 6 months. Not too many injuries either; a bout with iliotibial strain once, some plantar fasciitis, and a couple of pulled calf muscles. The calf injuries were the most 'serious' in the sense that I had to stop running for nearly 6 weeks once. Nowadays I back off at the first sign of calf pain; take a day off, massage, roll it, whatever it takes. I also do as many miles as I can on soft surfaces - we have a nice gravel/grass trail here all along Buffalo Bayou, with zero car traffic. <br /><br />I smoked (and ran) for a while too. Back then I thought that was living a balanced lifestyle... Finally quit the smoking as the running became more serious. First marathon was c. 1991 and I have run one (occasionally 2) every year since then. I am now trying to shed a few of the surplus pounds I have collected over the years, and have stepped up my training, to try to qualify for Boston. Much easier said than done. As I can personally attest, you can 'out-eat' pretty much any exercise program. At times, I gained weight despite running nearly 50 miles per week. <br /><br />However I am on the right track now, and ran a best ever time over 20K a few weeks ago, averaging just on 8 minutes/mile. So if I can stay healthy, and the weather cooperates on the day (of the Houston Marathon in mid Jan 2006) I might just scrape in under 3:35. If not this year, then next. Just started to include erging in the exercise mix, with good results. I have always felt that my upper body is being neglected, just along for the ride, on a run. The rowing should help to maintain some muscle and possibly strengthen the core a bit. We'll see how it goes.<br /><br />Running a 25K this weekend but will probably take it easy as the weather forecast is dismal - the starting temperature will be right around 70F. <br /><br />Bert <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Welcome aboard Bert!<br /><br />Buffalo Bayou? Hmm...I seem to recall that from a chart-going up the Houston Ship Channel,to pick up a load of gas in Pasadena,30 years ago.<br /><br />I ran a marathon in Durban,at the then WAVA Championships in 1997-beautiful two looper,part of it by the ocean.<br /><br />At Boston last year,after the marathon,I was talking to a guy outside a restaurant who also ran it,then he excused himself to go for a smoke. <br /><br />I can appreciate fighting the food battle-about this time of year I turn into a squirrel,and start packing away the nuts.<br /><br />You are right on as far as what you can take away from the erging-upper body,leg and core strength.<br /><br />Let us know how you are making out.

[[old] Samroot]

Well I didn't do my long run till Sunday. Saturday was devoted to leaf raking and beginning of carpet removal from stairs,hall and a bedroom. This left me feeling quite beatup Sunday morning. I finally got up to school about 1000. It was breezy but mild,and I managed to get in about 22 miles in 3 hrs. and 15 mins.,barefoot,of course. I was covered with mud from the knees down. So I completed what started as notion in my head of doing all my long runs barefoot. We'll see if that translates into anything next week. <br /><br /><br />Thanks John! Two Oceans? I have a local South African friend who wants me to go back over and do Comrades with him. That make Boston look like a flatlander marathon.<br /><br /><br />Jim how are those frees going? I'm considering wearing them for the marathon.