Upgrade used model C vs buying used model D? What to upgrade?

[Nomath]

I have done some pulls, at 1 the drag factor was 98, at 10 it was 208. Off course fluctuating, but after a minute, these were the readings. I already took the seat off because the sound made me go mad, so this was done standing with 1 arm

Drag factor range is OK. Drag factor is measured during each recovery, so it shouldn't take a minute to read.
But I asked for the time that the flywheel keeps spinning after a strong pull. It is a rough indicator for the state of the bearings. Drag is about pumping air ; this resistance dominates at high flywheel speeds. The free spinning time is more limited by friction in the bearings, at low speeds.

Did you clean the chain with an oiled rag? This may significantly reduce the noise during the pull, just as an oiled bicycle chain is much less noisy than a rusty chain.

[c2jonw]

I took a close look at the pics and I can't discern much that needs replacing. The drag factor range indicates to me that either the machine has not been used much or it has been well maintained. So I would clean and lube and run it as is once you get the seat working correctly.
* The two top seat rollers look ok though dirty so hit them with a liquid household cleanser and a mild abrasive pad.
* If the chain is just a little noisy give it a cleaning and some lube. No need to replace it or the sprocket if it's all working.
* The bit of fraying of the bungee cord is normal- as long as you can't see the internal rubber and the tension is ok I would not replace.
* Also no need to replace the bungee cord rollers- they see very little loading and I don't ever recall seeing one fail. Put a few drops of oil on the ball bearings if it makes you feel better.
* The worn chain pulley axle shouldn't be a problem but check to make sure the chain pulley turns smoothly.
* Opening up the PM2 and cleaning the keypad contacts should fix that problem
* I'd also pull the flywheel of and put some light oil on the needles of the clutch.

Good Luck! The C is a great machine......

[Belgiansound]

I have done some pulls, at 1 the drag factor was 98, at 10 it was 208. Off course fluctuating, but after a minute, these were the readings. I already took the seat off because the sound made me go mad, so this was done standing with 1 arm

Drag factor range is OK. Drag factor is measured during each recovery, so it shouldn't take a minute to read.
But I asked for the time that the flywheel keeps spinning after a strong pull. It is a rough indicator for the state of the bearings. Drag is about pumping air ; this resistance dominates at high flywheel speeds. The free spinning time is more limited by friction in the bearings, at low speeds.

Did you clean the chain with an oiled rag? This may significantly reduce the noise during the pull, just as an oiled bicycle chain is much less noisy than a rusty chain.

Hi,

Yes, I meant after a minute, the drag factor was on average around the 98 mark

spent some time again today on the machine. Was frustrated because the Allen Key I have does not fit AT ALL due to the imperial system used on the concept 2, will need to buy these if i want to dismantle further. The proposed wrenches did work, except for the 14 mm, this one does not fit so need to use a 15mm, which damages a bit the bolts but it's doable. I'm a bit neurotic about that, I want it to fit...but ok, it's just a workout machine.

I checked the time, pulled 2:30/500m on 10, the wheel kept on spinning for 2'27''. After 30" it went very slow, but steady, which always wins the race It does make a bit of a 'grindy' sound when it's turning, but could just be some dirt or something, did not clean it out.

I also cleaned the chain (full of 'sticky' black dirt' and oiled it, the sound is better but still louder compared to my bike. There is no damage however on the chain, though I'm no chain expert.

[Belgiansound]

I took a close look at the pics and I can't discern much that needs replacing. The drag factor range indicates to me that either the machine has not been used much or it has been well maintained. So I would clean and lube and run it as is once you get the seat working correctly.
* The two top seat rollers look ok though dirty so hit them with a liquid household cleanser and a mild abrasive pad.
* If the chain is just a little noisy give it a cleaning and some lube. No need to replace it or the sprocket if it's all working.
* The bit of fraying of the bungee cord is normal- as long as you can't see the internal rubber and the tension is ok I would not replace.
* Also no need to replace the bungee cord rollers- they see very little loading and I don't ever recall seeing one fail. Put a few drops of oil on the ball bearings if it makes you feel better.
* The worn chain pulley axle shouldn't be a problem but check to make sure the chain pulley turns smoothly.
* Opening up the PM2 and cleaning the keypad contacts should fix that problem
* I'd also pull the flywheel of and put some light oil on the needles of the clutch.

Good Luck! The C is a great machine......

Hi,

Many thanks for taking your time to look at the pictures, really appreciate your expert view on it!

- They are indeed cleanable, but they do not turn as well as the 'good' bottom roller. The bottom rollers, one is shot (does not keep on turning), the other one is perfect. Given the small cost and the age, I would consider changing them
- True, it's all working, gave it a clean and it's better, though not as silent as my bike
- ok, I will just keep the bungee cord, the tension is also just fine. Only reason I would do it now is because it's only 20 EUR for the rollers and the cord, would be silly to have to buy it seperately in a few years if it does wear down.
- it turns perfectly, it's just 'damaged' (and it's 2 euro to replace)
- Thanks! I took it apart, cleaned it with IPA and the buttons work perfectly now, I don't need to press hard at all, very responsive. The battery contact is corroded but not onto the board, I can still decide to replace it if it would fail at some time.
- that's a great tip, didn't get to it as I have issues with some bolts/screws due to the imperial system...

As the monitor is working just fine I don't think I really need the PM5. I can just order all the maintenance parts, not that expensive, and keep the PM2. I have a 5Khz strap from my exercise bike so I don't need that much to make my machine technically 'as new', PN 1862 is 22 euro.

Thanks to all of you for helping me out reviving this model C!

[Nomath]

If it keeps spinning for more than 2 minutes, the flywheel bearings are OK too.
c2jonw is the real expert, in fact one of the inventors of the C2 erg, so his advice is the best you can get. I wouldn't pull the flywheel off if I didn't have the proper tools.

[nick rockliff]

If it keeps spinning for more than 2 minutes, the flywheel bearings are OK too.
c2jonw is the real expert, in fact one of the inventors of the C2 erg, so his advice is the best you can get. I wouldn't pull the flywheel off if I didn't have the proper tools.

All you need is a screwdriver and spanner, only takes a couple of minutes.

[Belgiansound]

Thanks a lot, did not know we had the designers of this wonderful machine on this forum, even in my topic!

All parts are ordered, so next week I should be able to assemble them all, give it a good cleaning, and start rowing using the vintage PM2 and slightly modernized classic model C! I'm curious to see how long it will hold up, would be very nice if it would run for another 20 years without any modification. I can pass it on to my children

I will post some pictures here of the 'after'

[Nomath]

Thanks a lot, did not know we had the designers of this wonderful machine on this forum, even in my topic!
..

https://patents.justia.com/assignee/concept-ii-inc

[GreenStratMan]

I think you’ll be very happy with your C. I got one about 2 years ago. I changed the chain, pulley, chain guides, seat, handle, bungee cord along with PM5(I cleaned the contacts, after I got the PM5, and it worked perfectly. I gave it to someone on here). Mine rows like a new one.

Also, there is something about nurturing something back to perfect working order. They’re great machines to work on. Apart from the end cover ;0). I didn’t need to replace the chain, but I got my machine for nothing and I liked the peace of mind of having a new chain. As a former cyclist, I know how unpleasant a snapped chain is. Although a snapped chain is probably unlikely on a C2, but you don’t know if it’s been abused or not if it’s second hand.

Enjoy, let us know how you get on.

[Belgiansound]

Thanks! The C is completely disassembled. As I disassembled anyway, I thought why not paint it, it's anyway for myself, as I know it probably ruins resale value. Was surprised how well some black parts looked after just a very torough cleaning.

I sanded down and degreased the parts I want to paint. I planned to paint today but my daughter decided to get sick Will repaint all the grey parts to a sparkling silver, also the long legs (as in the model D it's white) and, this might be a bit controversary but the monitor arm I decided to paint gold We'll see how it goes, I did a test on the inside of the fan cover, it looks great

The parts arrived last week but I wasn't at home so need to go and pick it up, will anyway be for this weekend the earliest (depending on how much free time my kids give me ).

[GreenStratMan]

Thanks! The C is completely disassembled. As I disassembled anyway, I thought why not paint it, it's anyway for myself, as I know it probably ruins resale value. Was surprised how well some black parts looked after just a very torough cleaning.

I sanded down and degreased the parts I want to paint. I planned to paint today but my daughter decided to get sick Will repaint all the grey parts to a sparkling silver, also the long legs (as in the model D it's white) and, this might be a bit controversary but the monitor arm I decided to paint gold We'll see how it goes, I did a test on the inside of the fan cover, it looks great

The parts arrived last week but I wasn't at home so need to go and pick it up, will anyway be for this weekend the earliest (depending on how much free time my kids give me ).

Wow. Pimp your Erg! There’s a company in the UK who paints ergs all kinds weird colours. Good luck!

Oh if it creaks when it’s done, you’ll need to put electrical insulation tape on the joint bearing surfaces. It works a treat.

[Belgiansound]

Finally got round to painting, I'm both estatic and dissapointed

Painted the front high legs, u beam and both sides of the damper silver metallic, so all 'grey' original parts + front legs, love it. 3 coats of primer, 3 silver, 2 "sparkles" and 2 high shine varnish.




Painted the arm assembly and the middle black part of the damper in gold+sparkles, TERRIBLE, looked great in gold but sparkles messed up. Finished anyway with varnish to see if it would improve, but no, so now I have a lot of sanding to do . Will repaint black metallic...bummer! If I have to repaint anyway I might also paint the rear legs, which are now just original black. I don't want to paint it all in silver to have some contrast.




I also got the parts in from the concept 2 shop, the support people in Belgium are very supportive and helped me to find all needed parts, also parts not listed on the website but available in their warehouse. They forgot to send me the transmitter to use my heart monitor on the PM2 and will ship it now without transportatin cost. Great service!

Putting the new and used parts next to each other, the wear is incredible. Will make a nice picture of that once I can start to reassemble.

[jackarabit]

Putting the new and used parts next to each other, the wear is incredible. Will make a nice picture of that once I can start to reassemble.

Maybe df per shutter pointer setting aint the best tell for making a guess at mechanical condition?

[Belgiansound]

I'm not a native English speaker, what do you mean? Df is depth of field but shutter speed does not impact df, that is the diafragma. Still I don't get your sentence? Thanks for explaining.

[Citroen]

I'm not a native English speaker, what do you mean? Df is depth of field but shutter speed does not impact df, that is the diafragma. Still I don't get your sentence? Thanks for explaining.

DF == drag factor
That's the number from the PM5 that tells you how much the flywheel will slow down between strokes. It's related to the damper lever position, but a better measure (as not all damper levers produce the same DF number).