Question's about sub 7 and look at current training

[aussie nick]

Stu's comment about training the mind to feel comfortable and confident at a markedly faster pace is important too - erg fear is a very real thing...certainly for me.

let's say I'm a 6.40 rower right now. If I embark on a consistent and well constructed 20 week training plan to prepare for a major event and get myself into 6.28 shape (which would be a dream). No matter how many signs I could point to of the 'if your 500m or 5k has improved to this, then your 2k is likely this' variety, I am certain that I am more likely to be capable of aiming for and achieve a 6.28 if I've done a 6.35 and a 6.31 at some point during the 20 weeks.

James, I defer to your lifetime of rowing experience and knowledge...how often do most plans include a 2k time trial as a marker point?

[nick rockliff]

Stu's comment about training the mind to feel comfortable and confident at a markedly faster pace is important too - erg fear is a very real thing...certainly for me.

let's say I'm a 6.40 rower right now. If I embark on a consistent and well constructed 20 week training plan to prepare for a major event and get myself into 6.28 shape (which would be a dream). No matter how many signs I could point to of the 'if your 500m or 5k has improved to this, then your 2k is likely this' variety, I am certain that I am more likely to be capable of aiming for and achieve a 6.28 if I've done a 6.35 and a 6.31 at some point during the 20 weeks.

James, I defer to your lifetime of rowing experience and knowledge...how often do most plans include a 2k time trial as a marker point?

Nick, this is how many I did when I first started taking it seriously. The top the three were races. I was 46 then.

03/28/04 2,000m 6:28.0
02/08/04 2,000m 6:31.1
11/15/03 2,000m 6:33.7
10/13/03 2,000m 6:40.4
07/29/03 2,000m 6:48.1
07/08/03 2,000m 6:48.6
06/17/03 2,000m 6:48.9
06/05/03 2,000m 6:50.4
06/03/03 2,000m 6:51.6
05/27/03 2,000m 6:55.6
05/22/03 2,000m 6:59.6

[max_ratcliffe]

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Nick, this is how many I did when I first started taking it seriously. The top the three were races. I was 46 then.

03/28/04 2,000m 6:28.0
02/08/04 2,000m 6:31.1
11/15/03 2,000m 6:33.7
10/13/03 2,000m 6:40.4
07/29/03 2,000m 6:48.1
07/08/03 2,000m 6:48.6
06/17/03 2,000m 6:48.9
06/05/03 2,000m 6:50.4
06/03/03 2,000m 6:51.6
05/27/03 2,000m 6:55.6
05/22/03 2,000m 6:59.6

Amazing record keeping, never mind the performance! Is that really an improvement in pb each time?

Thinking about it, otw rowers have heats. They can hardly be coasting in those.

[nick rockliff]

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Nick, this is how many I did when I first started taking it seriously. The top the three were races. I was 46 then.

03/28/04 2,000m 6:28.0
02/08/04 2,000m 6:31.1
11/15/03 2,000m 6:33.7
10/13/03 2,000m 6:40.4
07/29/03 2,000m 6:48.1
07/08/03 2,000m 6:48.6
06/17/03 2,000m 6:48.9
06/05/03 2,000m 6:50.4
06/03/03 2,000m 6:51.6
05/27/03 2,000m 6:55.6
05/22/03 2,000m 6:59.6

Amazing record keeping, never mind the performance! Is that really an improvement in pb each time?

Thinking about it, otw rowers have heats. They can hardly be coasting in those.

Yes PB every time, I think I did my first 2k test the week before the 6.59 which from memory was 7.15 but didn't know what I was doing back then.

[Dangerscouse]

Stu's comment about training the mind to feel comfortable and confident at a markedly faster pace is important too - erg fear is a very real thing...certainly for me.

let's say I'm a 6.40 rower right now. If I embark on a consistent and well constructed 20 week training plan to prepare for a major event and get myself into 6.28 shape (which would be a dream). No matter how many signs I could point to of the 'if your 500m or 5k has improved to this, then your 2k is likely this' variety, I am certain that I am more likely to be capable of aiming for and achieve a 6.28 if I've done a 6.35 and a 6.31 at some point during the 20 weeks.

That's exactly the same for me. I'd much rather sift through the wreckage of a failed session, and have something constructive to build on than to assume that I can do an implied pace as a shorter distance points towards it.

The wheels can fall off at any point, and until you know your specific weaknesses you can't prepare for them. You might be limited by oxygen delivery, oxygen utilisation or just generally not willing to suffer when you get to a specific tipping point. If that tipping point happens with 400m to go, a 1500m session will possibly be a confidence boost based on shifting sands.

After everything I've tried, and failed, one of the very few things that I'm 100% confident of is that you have to not be afraid of failing as it's a valuable moment to build resilience. It can be destructive if left to fester, but if it's channelled in the right way, it's a very powerful force. Much like Cortisol is a stress hormone, and will be quite pernicious over the long term, but it's very useful / essential in small controlled moments.

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying that anyone else is wrong, but just keep an inquisitive open mind at all times, as the best solution for you might not be what is the accepted wisdom e.g. Roger Banister.

[Tony Cook]

I think it’s a mix. Do a 2k to get training paces. Train at those paces and if they get quicker then likely your 2k time has got quicker. Do a 2k and prove that you’ve got quicker.
Train at faster pace and if you hit those times then confidence in your 2k time should be there.
My test of one person showed when I included one session a week of 4K of intervals in 500-1000m pieces at my last 2k pace for two months I squeezed 1 second and off my pace. When I did my next 2k I was 3 seconds quicker. 7 more weeks of similar and another 3 seconds quicker.
So in my mind if I can do 4 x 1k at 10’ centres at pace ‘x’ I can do a 2k at that same pace.
I wouldn’t advocate anyone only testing their 4x1k and then think they would do a 2k at that pace, as we are all different. Another person may be faster or slower. Combine the two and you will know what you can do.

[aussie nick]

Stu's comment about training the mind to feel comfortable and confident at a markedly faster pace is important too - erg fear is a very real thing...certainly for me.

let's say I'm a 6.40 rower right now. If I embark on a consistent and well constructed 20 week training plan to prepare for a major event and get myself into 6.28 shape (which would be a dream). No matter how many signs I could point to of the 'if your 500m or 5k has improved to this, then your 2k is likely this' variety, I am certain that I am more likely to be capable of aiming for and achieve a 6.28 if I've done a 6.35 and a 6.31 at some point during the 20 weeks.

James, I defer to your lifetime of rowing experience and knowledge...how often do most plans include a 2k time trial as a marker point?

Nick, this is how many I did when I first started taking it seriously. The top the three were races. I was 46 then.

03/28/04 2,000m 6:28.0
02/08/04 2,000m 6:31.1
11/15/03 2,000m 6:33.7
10/13/03 2,000m 6:40.4
07/29/03 2,000m 6:48.1
07/08/03 2,000m 6:48.6
06/17/03 2,000m 6:48.9
06/05/03 2,000m 6:50.4
06/03/03 2,000m 6:51.6
05/27/03 2,000m 6:55.6
05/22/03 2,000m 6:59.6

thanks. Very impressive progression and really interesting to review it. I really hope I can continue the progress like you did. Last year my PR attempts went

Jan 7.09
Feb 6.57.3
Mar 6.54.7
May 6.51.4
July 6.50.3
Oct 6.42.6

backed it off over our Summer in Nov to Jan and then caught covid in Feb and flu in April. I feel like I'm in PR shape physically right now but to the point I made above, I feel like the hurdles for me are mental and I need to get back into the swing of rowing on the edge and embracing the pain

[aussie nick]

I think it’s a mix. Do a 2k to get training paces. Train at those paces and if they get quicker then likely your 2k time has got quicker. Do a 2k and prove that you’ve got quicker.
Train at faster pace and if you hit those times then confidence in your 2k time should be there.
My test of one person showed when I included one session a week of 4K of intervals in 500-1000m pieces at my last 2k pace for two months I squeezed 1 second and off my pace. When I did my next 2k I was 3 seconds quicker. 7 more weeks of similar and another 3 seconds quicker.
So in my mind if I can do 4 x 1k at 10’ centres at pace ‘x’ I can do a 2k at that same pace.
I wouldn’t advocate anyone only testing their 4x1k and then think they would do a 2k at that pace, as we are all different. Another person may be faster or slower. Combine the two and you will know what you can do.

yes, that's what I'm thinking. I'm planning out a 20 week block and I think I'll plan out a mini taper week and then a 2k every 4 weeks to monitor progress and adjust my training

[jamesg]

how often do most plans include a 2k time trial as a marker point?

The only one I know is the Interactive by Terry O'Neill, specific to 2k racing and assuming 2-3 years prior systematic training.

The first test is the first workout and sets the bands.
The second test is half way through the 12 to 26 week program.
The third is the race.

No doubt M Caviston's Wolverine plan has some suggestions as to TTs; and some types of work there such as the L4s are testing to say the least.

In my day of no ergs or TTs we did 20 - 30 races from late winter to July. Distances from 5 minutes on the Tideway and upper Thames to 2112m at HRR, to Head of the River over the P to M course but downstream. Racing of course differs from TTs, it's much more fun, and usually you only go flat out if you're losing.