Random questions

[steveroedde]

"I could see doing up to a HM without water, mostly the drinking is probably a habit/drymouth avoidance thing, but any farther than that sounds insane".

Well....one might argue that to row 100k on an erg and get nowhere..... IS insane. To avoid drinking changes nothing!

As for fuel, At the pedestrian pace I did the 100k in, the primary substrate was fat, not glycogen. Probably depleted anyway but the 2;16 pace could be done with zero muscle glycogen from the get-go. It would be more unpleasant but doable.
Steve

[gregsmith01748]

Just to reinforce what has already been said. Only stop if it's longer than a HM. When I did my marathons was keeping about a liter of 1/2 Gatorade, 1/2 water in 3 cups next to the erg. I drank the first cup when I hit 12k, the next at 22k, and the final one at 32k. Each break was between 5 and 10 seconds and having them spaced like that broke up the row and gave me some structure to focus on.

I think the 15 to 30 seconds of drinking was more than made up for by keeping from dehydration induce CV drift.

[steveroedde]

"Just to reinforce what has already been said. Only stop if it's longer than a HM. When I did my marathons was keeping about a litre of 1/2 Gatorade, 1/2 water in 3 cups next to the erg. I drank the first cup when I hit 12k, the next at 22k, and the final one at 32k. Each break was between 5 and 10 seconds and having them spaced like that broke up the row and gave me some structure to focus on.

I think the 15 to 30 seconds of drinking was more than made up for by keeping from dehydration induce CV drift".
Greg

Certainly this is the party line Greg. We are in complete agreement up to the HM distance.

This thread prompted me to see what good evidence is out there regarding hydration and performance (as opposed to dextrose/glucose/fructose for fuel). It seems there isn't a lot of really sound evidence in the real world. Some from the lab but not in race situations. Certainly there are folks who have ended up with heat stroke and heat exhaustion in races, but although this is related it is not really the same issue. There is an appropriate and increasing concern about over-hydration with salt-poor fluids resulting in what appears to be a near epidemic of hyponatremia (and more than a few deaths).

If anyone is interested there is a reasonable review of the issue to be found at:
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/10 ... e-and.html
This seems to be fairly comprehensive and identifies many of the relevant concepts/issues. It too, is somewhat contrarian (but perhaps not as much as I).

Ultimately, individual experience has to be the major guide here. As I alluded to earlier, I have great difficulties with heat and if I erged in a gym without a fan, I would definitely need to drink in a FM or beyond. On my own turf, often erging outside (in the cold, with a fan, and no shirt), fluids are more trouble than they are worth...for me.

As for CV drift, I believe that dehydration is part of the picture, not all. Reinforcing my personal experience, hyperthermia seems to be a major factor. Again, for those interested, there is a (possibly outdated) review of the topic here:

http://www.edb.utexas.edu/coyle/review% ... ctives.pdf

Regards to all, Steve

[RBFC]

Please remember that hydration is not only a factor during the event, but one's state of hydration before beginning the event is equally important. Many folks live in a state of minor dehydration, from excessive caffeine intake to not-frequent-enough drink breaks, etc. Performance is mildly eroded with even minimal dehydration.

Attempts to "super-hydrate" can result in hyponatremia, but this is largely based on ignorant practice. Even basic electrolyte blood panels can reveal all the necessary information for athletes to determine the status of their fluid/electrolyte balance. As I operate the heart/lung machine for open heart surgery, I get to work with blood daily. As such, I see all sorts of hematologic parameters and the cause/effect cycle of water, electrolytes, and proteins on the constituency of blood.

Lee

[gregsmith01748]

"Just to reinforce what has already been said. Only stop if it's longer than a HM. When I did my marathons was keeping about a litre of 1/2 Gatorade, 1/2 water in 3 cups next to the erg. I drank the first cup when I hit 12k, the next at 22k, and the final one at 32k. Each break was between 5 and 10 seconds and having them spaced like that broke up the row and gave me some structure to focus on.

I think the 15 to 30 seconds of drinking was more than made up for by keeping from dehydration induce CV drift".
Greg

Certainly this is the party line Greg. We are in complete agreement up to the HM distance.

This thread prompted me to see what good evidence is out there regarding hydration and performance (as opposed to dextrose/glucose/fructose for fuel). It seems there isn't a lot of really sound evidence in the real world. Some from the lab but not in race situations. Certainly there are folks who have ended up with heat stroke and heat exhaustion in races, but although this is related it is not really the same issue. There is an appropriate and increasing concern about over-hydration with salt-poor fluids resulting in what appears to be a near epidemic of hyponatremia (and more than a few deaths).

If anyone is interested there is a reasonable review of the issue to be found at:
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/10 ... e-and.html
This seems to be fairly comprehensive and identifies many of the relevant concepts/issues. It too, is somewhat contrarian (but perhaps not as much as I).

Ultimately, individual experience has to be the major guide here. As I alluded to earlier, I have great difficulties with heat and if I erged in a gym without a fan, I would definitely need to drink in a FM or beyond. On my own turf, often erging outside (in the cold, with a fan, and no shirt), fluids are more trouble than they are worth...for me.

As for CV drift, I believe that dehydration is part of the picture, not all. Reinforcing my personal experience, hyperthermia seems to be a major factor. Again, for those interested, there is a (possibly outdated) review of the topic here:

http://www.edb.utexas.edu/coyle/review% ... ctives.pdf

Regards to all, Steve

Actually, I was pretty confused by the conflicting information, so before I did my second marathon, I did a series of 100' rows, and varied my hydration strategy. If I stopped for 10 seconds and drank something, I saw a slower rise in hr afterward than if I just stopped for ten seconds without drinking. It isn't refereed research, but it convinced me that it makes a difference for my physiology.

[RBFC]

Greg,

Was the water pretty cold? Even mild cooling can cause the HR effect you describe. Very cool! (No pun intended, well maybe....)

Lee