Ranger's training thread

[KevJGK]

The people that have left the sport have eventually realised that there are better ways of getting the same fitness benefits without the same problems.

Personally I love the Concept2 stationary rower because it gives me the fitness benefits I seek without the risk of injury.

What “better ways of getting the same fitness benefits without the same problems” are you referring to?

I assume you’re not just referring to the dynamic erg.

[atklein90]

Funny that this would come from you. Isn't a 7:02 "worse" than a 6:41?

I didn't get my weight right and so was out of gas.

It didn't have anything to do with my rowing.

As a heavyweight, well fed and watered, I would have pulled 6:30.

ranger

Nice excuse. The problem with this claim though is that even on my WORST day, even after rowing a 70 min L4, or doing a hard 4x2K, I could still sit down and row faster than a 7:02, and I am (obviously based on my time trial last week) not able to row a 6:16. However, you claim that you can pull a 6:16. Therefore, you should easily be able to break 7:00 on ANY GIVEN DAY, no matter the circumstances.

The fact of the matter is, you are nothing but a lying scumbag.

[ranger]

Therefore, you should easily be able to break 7:00 on ANY GIVEN DAY, no matter the circumstances

Sure.

But I wasn't shooting for 7:00; I was shooting for the 6:30 that my training had prepared me to pull.

BTW, relative to the best in your age and weight division, your 6:20, which is 11 seconds per 500m off the pace for your age and weight, is the equivalent for me of 7:27.

So, it looks as though you are one _heck_ of a long way from being able to do--at all, on your best day--what would be 7:00 for me.

For me, 7:00 pace is 4.5 seconds per 500m off of WR pace, which would be 5:53 for you.

Last year, no 60s lwts--at all--pulled sub-7.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Ages 60-69 | 2010 Season

1 Hugh Pite 65 Victoria BC CAN 7:02.7 RACE
2 Robert Lakin 61 Wichita KS USA 7:03.6 RACE
3 gregory brock 62 santa cruz ca USA 7:03.9 IND
4 Jerry Lawson 62 USA 7:06.0 RACE
4 Gerald Lawson 62 Winona MN USA 7:06.0 IND
6 Leif Petersen 64 DEN 7:08.5 RACE
7 Peter Francis 61 Denver CO USA 7:09.3 RACE
8 Roger Prowse 65 Isle of Wight GBR 7:10.3 RACE
9 Rick Bayko 62 Newburyport MA USA 7:12.5 RACE
10 Michael Brownjohn 61 Upminster Essex GBR 7:12.8 RACE

The 7:02 I paddled in at BIRC (because I was completely out of gas) was as good as any 60s lwt in the 2010 season.

You might want to get to where you can do 5:53 on ANY GIVEN DAY, no matter what the conditions, before you require the same task of me.

My goal of 6:16 at 60 is 26.5 seconds under the 60s lwt WR.

For you, that's the equivalent of 5:08.5 for 2K.

LIke me, you'll have to train pretty long and hard to get _that_ done.

That's really movin'.

1:17 pace

ranger

[ranger]

Having said ad infinitum that low-drag (95) is the way to go, Rich will now say that it has taught him to move fast and with rhythm, and it's time to use his strengths and increase the drag. The return to anchor-hauling is not far away.

Yes, I have been learning a lot from rowing at 95 df., and I will continue to use the low drag for distance trials: FM, HM, 60min, 10K, 30min, 6K, 5K.

You are right that I might row at a higher drag for 2K, though, if it helps me, but only up to about 140 df., which is really very normal.

I don't anchor-haul at 140 df. I can still push my legs through with good timing.

My force curve remains the same shape. It is just taller and wider.

Pushing and pulling with the same speed against more resistance, I get an extra 2 SPI and can lower the rate and ratio for a 2K from 38 spm in a 2-to-1 ratio to 32 spm in a 3-to-1 ratio--1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI, 10 MPS).

I will only use max drag for 500m.

ranger

[JimR]

Therefore, you should easily be able to break 7:00 on ANY GIVEN DAY, no matter the circumstances

Sure.

But I wasn't shooting for 7:00; I was shooting for the 6:30 that my training had prepared me to pull.

BTW, relative to the best in your age and weight division, your 6:20, which is 11 seconds per 500m off the pace for your age and weight, is the equivalent for me of 7:27.

So, it looks as though you are one _heck_ of a long way from being able to do--at all, on your best day--what would be 7:00 for me.

For me, 7:00 pace is 4.5 seconds per 500m off of WR pace, which would be 5:53 for you.

The comparison you make here ... and make everytime someone points out your "out of gas" excuse is stupid ... is illogical.

If two people are capable of the same thing then it is reasonable to assume they are capable of other, similar things. You claim you can erg 6:16 for a 2K, if I KNOW I can erg 6:45 for a 2K then I can reasonably assume you should be able able to do what I do easily. Yet you can't do what a 6:45 2K erger can do (remember you can't do what MVB has posted in this thread) ... and you can't do what NavHaz has posted in this thread ... and you can't do what atklein90 has described.

So it appears that you really are a 7:02 2K erger ... because that's what you produce.

JimR

[Byron Drachman]

Feb 18, 2011: A month or so of double-session "Steamrollering" should get me plenty ready for FM and HM trials. Then I will get back to "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" rowing at 26 spm and a threshold HR in order to prepare for 60min, 10K, and 30min trials. Then I will be ready for some AT training (e.g., 4 x 2K) to prepare for 5K and 6K trials. I think I should be able to get all of this training and racing in by the end of the indoor rowing season, April 30th. If I am successful in this training and racing, by April 30th, I should hold all of the 60s hwt WRs from 5K to a FM. Then, at the end of April, it might be interesting to do an at-home 2K trial to see if I can beat do better than Hendershott's 6:24. After that, all of my rowing will be OTW.

These are exciting times. This week we will see all the 60's WR's from 5K to the FM fall, and then see the 2K record broken. Unprecedented. Then according to the above, our hero will switch to OTW. Our hero missed another nice morning OTW. There is a steady light rain today, the kind that makes the water flat, but I understand that he is busy riding a cowboy and setting world records. First things first.

I have some exciting news for our hero. According to the information packet, at the Master's Nationals the minimum weight limits for boats will be waived, so he won't have to add ballast to his Fluid. Isn't that fabulous news?

It is always nice to review some of our hero's more inspiring postings:

June 11, 2008: --snip--The 60s OTW 1Ks at the Nationals are usually won at about 2:00 pace. I will race a new elite 1x (not my tub of a Peinert) in the Nationals when I am 60.

June 12, 2008: My stroke is now a dream to use, entirely relaxed. –snip--so my erging and OTW rowing have merged perfectly. My stroke is the same both OTW and off.

June 27, 2010: given that I was just out in my Fluid, doing 1:56 @ 31 spm. No one my age is rowing any better, including Dietz and Spousta, who, between them, have won the Head of the Charles a couple of dozen times.

July 1, 2010: --snip-- I will be ready for Nationals and the Head of the Charles next year. I will do some head races this fall.

July 27, 2010: --snip--I will race at the Head of the Charles next year in the Veterans race.

Feb 7, 2011: I will be racing--both OTErg in the winter and OTW in the spring, summer, and fall--for the rest of my life.

[atklein90]

Therefore, you should easily be able to break 7:00 on ANY GIVEN DAY, no matter the circumstances

Sure.

But I wasn't shooting for 7:00; I was shooting for the 6:30 that my training had prepared me to pull.

For me, 7:00 pace is 4.5 seconds per 500m off of WR pace...

Last year, no 60s lwts--at all--pulled sub-7.

The 7:02 I paddled in at BIRC (because I was completely out of gas) was as good as any 60s lwt in the 2010 season.

ranger

But you weren't 60 when you pulled 7:02. You were 59. So who gives a shit what the 60s Lwts pulled this year.

You, as a 60s lightweight, had successive DNFs, DNS, DNBLAH! You chickened out of every race this year as a 60s anything (hwt or lwt). Maybe if you'd man up and post a ranking 60s 2K, we'd have something to believe. But you won't.

And really, 7:00 for you is 7:00 for me. A clock is a clock and 7:00 is 7:00, no matter how you slice it. The fact of the matter is, you make ridiculous claims at incredible times, then put up 7:02! Rather pathetic.

Now, you're on to making ridiculous claims about FM, HM, 10K, etc. world records. Yet, the only ranking piece you have this year is a 59 year old 7:02 (which by the way, is 41st in the rankings, not even in the top 90%tile)!

My point again being, if you really could pull a 6:16 like you claim, no matter what happened, you could pull sub-7:00, regardless of your goal for that race. Even if you paddled it, you would easily go sub-6:45. So, the fact remains, you are a useless liar.

[Tinpusher]

The 7:02 I paddled in at BIRC (because I was completely out of gas) was as good as any 60s lwt in the 2010 season.

You were still 59 when you rowed at BIRC, so comparing your time to those over 60 is meaningless and misleading.

What you did at BIRC was not paddling. It was bursts of anchor hauling followed by a series of handle downs. If you paddled a 7:02 it would be at an even pace, no?

[rjw]

Feb 18, 2011: A month or so of double-session "Steamrollering" should get me plenty ready for FM and HM trials. Then I will get back to "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" rowing at 26 spm and a threshold HR in order to prepare for 60min, 10K, and 30min trials. Then I will be ready for some AT training (e.g., 4 x 2K) to prepare for 5K and 6K trials. I think I should be able to get all of this training and racing in by the end of the indoor rowing season, April 30th. If I am successful in this training and racing, by April 30th, I should hold all of the 60s hwt WRs from 5K to a FM. Then, at the end of April, it might be interesting to do an at-home 2K trial to see if I can beat do better than Hendershott's 6:24. After that, all of my rowing will be OTW.

These are exciting times. This week we will see all the 60's WR's from 5K to the FM fall, and then see the 2K record broken. Unprecedented. Then according to the above, our hero will switch to OTW. Our hero missed another nice morning OTW. There is a steady light rain today, the kind that makes the water flat, but I understand that he is busy riding a cowboy and setting world records. First things first.

I have some exciting news for our hero. According to the information packet, at the Master's Nationals the minimum weight limits for boats will be waived, so he won't have to add ballast to his Fluid. Isn't that fabulous news?

It is always nice to review some of our hero's more inspiring postings:

June 11, 2008: --snip--The 60s OTW 1Ks at the Nationals are usually won at about 2:00 pace. I will race a new elite 1x (not my tub of a Peinert) in the Nationals when I am 60.

June 12, 2008: My stroke is now a dream to use, entirely relaxed. –snip--so my erging and OTW rowing have merged perfectly. My stroke is the same both OTW and off.

June 27, 2010: given that I was just out in my Fluid, doing 1:56 @ 31 spm. No one my age is rowing any better, including Dietz and Spousta, who, between them, have won the Head of the Charles a couple of dozen times.

July 1, 2010: --snip-- I will be ready for Nationals and the Head of the Charles next year. I will do some head races this fall.

July 27, 2010: --snip--I will race at the Head of the Charles next year in the Veterans race.

Feb 7, 2011: I will be racing--both OTErg in the winter and OTW in the spring, summer, and fall--for the rest of my life.

Thanks for highlighting that Byron. Truly exciting times indeed. I can hardly contain myself!

[bellboy]

Feb 18, 2011: A month or so of double-session "Steamrollering" should get me plenty ready for FM and HM trials. Then I will get back to "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" rowing at 26 spm and a threshold HR in order to prepare for 60min, 10K, and 30min trials. Then I will be ready for some AT training (e.g., 4 x 2K) to prepare for 5K and 6K trials. I think I should be able to get all of this training and racing in by the end of the indoor rowing season, April 30th. If I am successful in this training and racing, by April 30th, I should hold all of the 60s hwt WRs from 5K to a FM. Then, at the end of April, it might be interesting to do an at-home 2K trial to see if I can beat do better than Hendershott's 6:24. After that, all of my rowing will be OTW.

These are exciting times. This week we will see all the 60's WR's from 5K to the FM fall, and then see the 2K record broken. Unprecedented. Then according to the above, our hero will switch to OTW. Our hero missed another nice morning OTW. There is a steady light rain today, the kind that makes the water flat, but I understand that he is busy riding a cowboy and setting world records. First things first.

I have some exciting news for our hero. According to the information packet, at the Master's Nationals the minimum weight limits for boats will be waived, so he won't have to add ballast to his Fluid. Isn't that fabulous news?

It is always nice to review some of our hero's more inspiring postings:

June 11, 2008: --snip--The 60s OTW 1Ks at the Nationals are usually won at about 2:00 pace. I will race a new elite 1x (not my tub of a Peinert) in the Nationals when I am 60.

June 12, 2008: My stroke is now a dream to use, entirely relaxed. –snip--so my erging and OTW rowing have merged perfectly. My stroke is the same both OTW and off.

June 27, 2010: given that I was just out in my Fluid, doing 1:56 @ 31 spm. No one my age is rowing any better, including Dietz and Spousta, who, between them, have won the Head of the Charles a couple of dozen times.

July 1, 2010: --snip-- I will be ready for Nationals and the Head of the Charles next year. I will do some head races this fall.

July 27, 2010: --snip--I will race at the Head of the Charles next year in the Veterans race.

Feb 7, 2011: I will be racing--both OTErg in the winter and OTW in the spring, summer, and fall--for the rest of my life.

Just think Byron, half a dozen world records during this week! The expectation is palpable.

[ranger]

Personally I love the Concept2 stationary rower because it gives me the fitness benefits I seek without the risk of injury.

Are you rowing for the fitness benefits? As I have listened to you over the years, it hasn't sounded that way.

Anyway, I don't think that there is much risk of injury (sickness, staleness) if you are a 50s hwt pulling 7:00 for 2K.

The quality of the forces you are generating and the quantity of work you are doing are not large enough to be dangerous.

For the best 50s heavyweights, 1:45 pace is just a bit above UT2 rowing.

ranger

[ranger]

You were still 59 when you rowed at BIRC, so comparing your time to those over 60 is meaningless and misleading.

No, it isn't.

I was 60 two months later.

Those who are 55 are five years younger than I am.

ranger

[ranger]

You claim you can erg 6:16 for a 2K

Yep, but only when I am fully trained.

I am getting there.

The first test of this claim is a FM, 1:48 @ 25 spm.

That predicts a 6:16 2K.

That won't be the end of it, though.

To get fully trained, I need to train for and race all of the other distance events from the top down (HM, 60min, 10K, 30min, 6K, 5K), hitting my targets for those distances, too.

Then I need to do a couple of months of anaerobic intervals, hitting my targets for the standard 2K predictors: 4 x 2K, 4 x 1K, and 8 x 500m.

Then I need to race for a couple of months until I get my best race, given accidental conditions (travel, sleep, taper, time of day, etc.).

ranger

[snowleopard]

Those who are 55 are five years younger than I am.

Fcuk me the man's a genius

[ranger]

Now, you're on to making ridiculous claims about FM, HM, 10K, etc. world records.

No, not just that.

Even though I am a lightweight, they will be _heavyweight_ WRs.

And they won't be heavyweight WRs by just a bit.

They will all be heavyweight WRs by 4-6 seconds per 500m.

FM 6 seconds per 500m
HM 5 seconds per 500m
60min 4 seconds per 500m.
10K 4 seconds per 500m
30min 4 seconds per 500m
6K 4 seconds per 500m
5K 4 seconds per 500m

6:16 is two seconds per 500m under Paul Hendershott's 60s heavyweight 2K WR of 6:23.8.

Besides Paul, no 60s heavyweight has ever rowed sub-6:30.

6:16 is under Dick Cashin's 55s hwt WR.

6:16 is under _both_ the 50s and the 40s wt WRs.

ranger