Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

When you say you'll keep doing 1:48 until you can do it for a FM, could you possibly be a bit less cryptic? Does that mean you've extended the 1:48 out to 20K? 35k? How close are we talking? Unfortunately you can't answer the question because you have no idea. You haven't tried to go as far as possible at 1:48. I'd bet you large sums of money you couldn't show us 10k at 1:48 this weekend.

I know you'll never show anything, but could you at least tell us some lies about how far you've gone at 1:48? All at once? No breaks?

I am enjoying 10K at a time right now, but multiple times a day.

I am just getting used to the cadence, continuing to work on relaxation and consistency with the new technique.

I have only been rowing at 95 df. for a month or so.

I rowed at max drag for 10 years.

Getting used to a new technique is not instantaneous.

It takes a while for your body (and mind!) to adapt to it completely.

No reason to bet, but sure, I will try to post 10K, 1:48 @ 22- 24 spm, this weekend.

In 2003, rowing poorly at max drag, I could only do 5K, 1:48 @ 22 spm, before my HR maxed out up into the 180s bpm and I had to stop.

Rowing well at low drag (95 df.), I am now do this 1:48 @ 22-24 spm, steady state, at 155 bpm, middlin' UT1.

My anaerobic threshold is 172 bpm.

ranger

[Fred]

No reason to bet, but sure, I will try to post 10K, 1:48 @ 22- 24 spm, this weekend.

The fact that your "extrapolations" lead you to believe you can do a 36:00 10k this weekend, when in fact you likely can not go sub 38:00 (1:54 average), should lead you to question them as reliable predictors of performance.

[aharmer]

I may not be the brightest bulb on the tree, but I still don't understand.

You say you're doing several 10k at 1:48 each day. Why would you say you'll try to post a screenshot of one? You know how to do it, and it takes seconds. You're either willing to do it or you're not, why not be honest with us and yourself for once? How difficult would it be to say you'll post a screenshot of the next 10k at 1:48, then surprise the hell out of us and do it?

This whole cat and mouse game of lies is so interesting to me. It fascinates me how dishonest you can be with yourself. Trolling is a fun activity that many people enjoy participating in on message boards. But to the tune of 10,000 messages all saying the same thing? Truly psychotic and sad. Particularly when you know everybody knows who you are, and you have to show up next to them in order to compete. Your current level of illness could be the focus of a grad student's thesis.

[ranger]

When I am rowing at 95 df., just stroking naturally, I usually get 120 kg.F of peak force, which is a lot, but lord, putting in another 10K just now, I find that, once I am warmed up, I can hit the top of the screen, 135 kg.F, pretty easily. When I do that, I have pulled the pace down to 1:46 @ 22 spm (13.2 SPI).

Whistles and bells!

Whistles and bells!

That's rowing _perfectly_ at 95 df.

On this technique business, my ship has come in.

ranger

[ranger]

Remember guys!

Get in that triple tap on the footplate, pushing your legs through entirely, _before_ you engage your core and swing your back.

If you are a little lightweight rowing at 95 df., this means that you have to finish your legs in right about .2 seconds.

Yippee yi-o ki-a.

Gallopin' all the way.

Here comes...

Queeeeeeeeeeecksdraw.

Hoooooold on thar, Baba Looey!

http://www.toontracker.com/huck/quickdraw.htm

ranger

[Fred]

I may not be the brightest bulb on the tree, but I still don't understand.
You say you're doing several 10k at 1:48 each day. Why would you say you'll try to post a screenshot of one? You know how to do it, and it takes seconds. You're either willing to do it or you're not, why not be honest with us and yourself for once? How difficult would it be to say you'll post a screenshot of the next 10k at 1:48, then surprise the hell out of us and do it? <snip>

Well, the whole thing revolves around the fact that Rich equates a 40:00 10k where portions of it are doing at 1:48, with a 36:00 10k where 1:48 is the average.

In Rich's mind, the rest periods are irrelevant. That's why he's always saying things like "habituation", "getting accustomed to", and insisting that it's not fitness that gets a person from 40:00 to 36:00, but "skeletal muscular blah-blah". If you can do a 10k with portions at 1:48, then all you need to do is "get used to" 1:48 to do the entire thing at 1:48, and since that is imminent, 40:00 is the same as 36:00.

[ranger]

You say you're doing several 10k at 1:48 each day.Why would you say you'll try to post a screenshot of one?

O.K.

If you're not interested, I won't.

I thought you were interested.

ranger

[aharmer]

You say you're doing several 10k at 1:48 each day.Why would you say you'll try to post a screenshot of one?

O.K.

If you're not interested, I won't.

I thought you were interested.

ranger

As if we didn't already know, this post says it all. And no, I'm not the least bit interested in your erg times because they're pure fantasy. If I want to learn about erging fast I'll go to the guys that erg fast. My sole interest in you is how sick you really are, and how many hours we can keep you chained to your computer because you're incapable of not responding. This thread has truly taken over your entire life, and I enjoy a good train wreck as much as the next guy.

You're known worldwide in the erg community as a lying, welshing, dumb, mentally unstable
Lunatic. Taking 10 seconds to show a screenshot of something you're already doing multiple times a day would change public opinion dramatically, but you've now decided not to do it because 'aharmer' didn't show you proper respect. Okay.

[ranger]

no, I'm not the least bit interested in your erg times

Just what I thought.

O.K.

I won't post them, if no one is interested.

ranger

[ranger]

Here is MIke and Rocket Roy at WIRC 2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzBeDL8wdV4

While MIke and Roy's strokes are exemplary in many ways (compression, length, smoothness, consistency, balance, posture, etc.), the basic problem is stroking power.

The crucial part of the stroke that generates this power is when you set your heels and push your legs through, holding your back and arms in reserve.

Mike and Roy do nothing of the sort.

They just push their legs through slowly and evenly, from catch to finish, with a slow roll at the footplate from the balls of their feet to their heels.

When the handle goes over their knees, their legs are still only half through and don't complete their work until the finish.

At the footplate, their weight doesn't get completely on their heels until the finish, and therefore they never get back up onto the balls of their feet when they swing their back and pull with their arms--at all.

A stroke of this sort gets about 90 kg.F of peak force and does about 9 SPI of work.

If they pushed their legs through _before_ engaging their back and arms, their strokes would get a peak force of 120 kg.F and do about 12 SPI of work.

If you have the skill to handle it, the easiest way to get quicker legs is to lower the drag.

The other way, much harder of course, is to row a lot in training at _very_ high stroking powers, e.g., up to 16 SPI, working on technique.

I don't know what drag Mike and Roy are rowing at, but I assume 120-130 df.

If they lowered the drag to 95 df., they would have better timing.

They would have the quickness to push their legs through before swinging their back and pulling with their arms, although this would demand several modifications of their technique.

In particular, at the footplate, they would have to plant their heels earlier, push their legs through with their hams and gluts, leveraging off their heels, and then get back up on the balls of their feet before they swung their backs and pulled with their arms, leveraging off the balls of their feet again, as they did at the catch.

Then they would have to push the wheel away at the finish with their calves, pointing their toes.

This takes quite a bit of practice to get right, so that it is automatic, and quite a bit of work to bring the old skeletal-muscular system up to the speed, dexterity, and strength required.

Then, of course, a few million meters of training with this new technique, never breaking form, would provide the psychological and physiological training to handle the new skill easily without spiking their heart rates.

ranger

Curious sort of deafening silence around here about these comments.

Interesting.

ranger

[ranger]

You're s a lying, welshing, dumb, mentally unstable, lunatic

Wow.

And I am a great rower, to boot!

Hey.

You're a nice guy, too, even if you are no good at rowing.

Our fond feeling for one another is mutual!

ranger

[ranger]

it's not fitness that gets a person from 40:00 to 36:00, but "skeletal muscular blah-blah".

At 22-24 spm for 10K at middlin' UT1?

For someone who has a WR row, like Rocket Roy, or say, a couple of CRASH-B hammers, like Mike VB?

Indeed.

At this late date, folks like Mike and Roy can't get a whit better on such a thing by working on their fitness.

In terms of fitness, they have already seen max, and given their ages, their aerobic capacity is declining.

On the other hand, if Mike and Roy rowed at 95 df. and learned to have faster legs, with good timing and sequencing, and good footwork, they could get quite a bit better.

How much, I don't know, but quite a bit.

Mike and Roy can't do 1:50 for 10K free rate at AT.

ranger

[Citroen]

Get in that triple tap on the footplate, pushing your legs through entirely, _before_ you engage your core and swing your back.

Sorry I have no idea what that means. Can you post a video of your "triple tap on the footplate" so we can fathom what the heck you're bleating on about now?

[Citroen]

Curious sort of deafening silence around here about these comments.

Interesting.

Not interesting at all, it's just more of your usual self aggrandising bullshit.

[ranger]

Get in that triple tap on the footplate, pushing your legs through entirely, _before_ you engage your core and swing your back.

Sorry I have no idea what that means. Can you post a video of your "triple tap on the footplate" so we can fathom what the heck you're bleating on about now?

Get off the wall, Dougie.

My description is crystal clear.

You do this _before_ you engage your core and swing your back, much less pull with your arms:

At maximal compression, drive off the balls of your feet at the catch with your quads.

Then set your heels and drive with your hams and gluts.

Then roll your weight back up on the balls of your feet again and drive with your calves until your toes are pointed and you finish your legs.

Do this is the first .2 seconds of the drive.

Use the last .3 seconds of the drive to swing your back and pull with your arms.

ranger