New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[Dangerscouse]

It could be we're just different with respect to that. Or it could be that if you had been drinking during your FM and HM you would have ended with better times and/or lower HR

It's a good point. I'm not aware of if I could have gone faster if I had drunk during my HM.

It doesn't slow me down too much when I do drink, but in the recent humidity we've had, I'd be interested to see the difference.

[Sakly]

As I did a full marathon recently, I know that I even don't need to drink during a marathon. I was well hydrated at the start and the pace was not all out, but also not too slow (2.02.6). Probably this would change when attacking a PB, so going all out for this distance, but for my HM full effort (pace 1:52) it was the same - no drinking, but very sweaty.

It could be we're just different with respect to that. Or it could be that if you had been drinking during your FM and HM you would have ended with better times and/or lower HR

It's easy to measure it: do an HM at a steady state pace (not PB, something easy for you, I do 2:11 pace for "zone 2" but you do surely better than that) without drinking, taking your weight before and after the HM. The week after do the same (same pace) with some drinking (1-1.5L for the HM). And compare HR across the two (assuming similar ambient temp and humidity).

If I would drink so much in a steady state, I would drop off the rower with a water balloon in my stomach
Really, during a so low intensity steady state (for me HR around 130-135) I barely sweat at all, so don't need to drink.
And during harder sessions I assume drinking would distract me, probably would loose my rhythm. To be honest, I never tried.
During my full marathon HR average was 151. Rising during the row as I increased pace from the middle, but lower as I expected. In the end it got very high for the given pace, that could be related to low hydration.

[HornetMaX]

Something that's surprised me though is how slow I have to go to keep my HR in the 'hold a conversation' zone of 135 - 145 ish bpm - we're talking around 2:19 / 500 m! Am I ruining all my hard work by doing this? By hard work, I mean all my SS's that I've been rowing at near maximum ever since I started, even though I know I shouldn't have...! Or am I safe to be strict about it, so long as I'm putting the hard work into my weekly intervals? It just feels wrong to row so placidly for so long, even though I know the evidence is saying I'm at just the right pace...

I was in the same exact situation: when I started to row some sessions at steady state, the pace felt way too slow.
A few months after that's no longer a problem for me: my steady state pace is now faster and I have overall better endurance (I managed a FM without too many problems).

My impression (really worth 2c, no more) is that volume matters. Of my 4 sessions per week 2 are slow long ones: typically one is a 1h thing, the other an HM, both at my 2:11 pace (I can keep my HR <= 170 at 2:11, even for the HM).

A training plan (for FM) I've seen recently insisted a lot on the fact that on steady state sessions your HR should not exceed the specified threshold (70%) and was even imposing to split long sessions (e.g 1h) into 2x30min with 2-3min rest in between.

Overall I'm now sold on (each week) 1 mid intensity session + 1 long&slow (1h) + 1day rest + 1 hard +1d rest + 1 long&slow (HM) + 1d rest.
That makes usually 45-55Km per week. It's not too easy but not to exhausting either.

[Dangerscouse]

Really, during a so low intensity steady state (for me HR around 130-135) I barely sweat at all, so don't need to drink.

All I want for Christmas is to sweat as little as this. I just need to think about sweating and it starts.

Every session is just different levels of sweatiness even when it's cold, even more so since Covid.

[Sakly]

Really, during a so low intensity steady state (for me HR around 130-135) I barely sweat at all, so don't need to drink.

All I want for Christmas is to sweat as little as this. I just need to think about sweating and it starts.

Every session is just different levels of sweatiness even when it's cold, even more so since Covid.

Probably I have to add the info it only is true as long as I use my 20" fan.
Even at around 12°C in winter times (basement not heated) I start sweating at low intensity, but as soon as I switch on the fan I am absolutely fine with no sweat building up as airflow cools me down sufficiently. This is also true for 20°C, which is the highest temp I get during summer.
When intensities get higher, sweat builds up more and more even on higher fan airflow

[HornetMaX]

If I would drink so much in a steady state, I would drop off the rower with a water balloon in my stomach

If you check general hydration advice for running marathons you see that numbers are not far fetched ...

And even for rowing specifically, some quotes for a rowing marathon training plan (from a professional coach, not random me):

Hydration – A reminder
Heart rate rises due to number of reasons. One of the prime causes is dehydration. It is important to remain well hydrated so drink every 10 to 15 minutes. Take time to practice your drinks strategy for the full marathon row to come. Do not under estimate the effects of heat and humidity on both your heart rate and hydration status.

Note:
The body needs liquid intake on sedentary days of approximately 2.5 litres of water which it draws from food (0.8 L), stores (0.5 L) and direct liquid intake (1.2 L). On active days you may need much more 2-4 litres so remember to remain
well hydrated.
Keeping a check on your body weight is a useful indicator of fluid loss every 0.45 kg of body weight lost is equivalent to 0.45 L of dehydration.
It is important to continual replace liquid throughout the normal day and during training – when training try to get into a regular habit of drinking every 10-15 minutes.
Consuming 0.4-0.6 L of fluid immediately before training and drinking .0.15-0.25 L every 15 minutes during training (and during your marathon row) will optimise the beneficial effects of fluid intake. Fluid delivery of about 1L per hour should meet the needs of marathon rowers.

Really, during a so low intensity steady state (for me HR around 130-135) I barely sweat at all, so don't need to drink.

If you don't sweat at all then you're robocop (and that's nice ). But if you sweat and the fan keeps you dry, you still sweat.
Just give it a try on the next SS HM you do without drinking: weight yourself right before and right after it (on a decent scale, 50-100gr precision, if possible).

And during harder sessions I assume drinking would distract me, probably would loose my rhythm. To be honest, I never tried.

That is possible, but we're talking HM, i.e. 1h00-1h30 duration so the impact is probably very very limited.
If it's a steady state session that has no influence anyway. If it's a time trial the idea is that the time you lose due to drinking is more than compensated thanks to your HR staying lower and allowing you a higher pace.

During my full marathon HR average was 151. Rising during the row as I increased pace from the middle, but lower as I expected. In the end it got very high for the given pace, that could be related to low hydration.

Ha ! QED ?

[Sakly]

Ha ! QED ?

Probably due to high fatigue after nearly 3h of rowing?
Not saying you are wrong, all written absolutely makes sense.
Before trying I need to train how to drink during rowing, as I never did this

[HornetMaX]

Before trying I need to train how to drink during rowing, as I never did this

Even before that you can just see if you lose too much weight during a no-drink HM.
If like me you lose ~2Kg, you kind of already have the answer (but still nice to confirm with a HM with drinking).

[Sakly]

Before trying I need to train how to drink during rowing, as I never did this

Even before that you can just see if you lose too much weight during a no-drink HM.
If like me you lose ~2Kg, you kind of already have the answer (but still nice to confirm with a HM with drinking).

Sure, after the marathon I weighed 76kg, but did not take weight before. Was at 78kg typically that time. Including a hot bath after the marathon I drank ~3l within about two hours after the marathon.

[Dangerscouse]

Probably I have to add the info it only is true as long as I use my 20" fan.
Even at around 12°C in winter times (basement not heated) I start sweating at low intensity, but as soon as I switch on the fan I am absolutely fine with no sweat building up as airflow cools me down sufficiently. This is also true for 20°C, which is the highest temp I get during summer.
When intensities get higher, sweat builds up more and more even on higher fan airflow

I always use a 20" fan too, but I'm thinking that as I'm on the top floor of a well insulated house, and you're in the basement there's going to be a difference in heat retention. Also, I'm not sure if living fairly close to the River Mersey makes it a bit more humid?

For instance it was 20c this morning, but 86% humidity again, and I was really sweaty.

[Sakly]

Probably I have to add the info it only is true as long as I use my 20" fan.
Even at around 12°C in winter times (basement not heated) I start sweating at low intensity, but as soon as I switch on the fan I am absolutely fine with no sweat building up as airflow cools me down sufficiently. This is also true for 20°C, which is the highest temp I get during summer.
When intensities get higher, sweat builds up more and more even on higher fan airflow

I always use a 20" fan too, but I'm thinking that as I'm on the top floor of a well insulated house, and you're in the basement there's going to be a difference in heat retention. Also, I'm not sure if living fairly close to the River Mersey makes it a bit more humid?

For instance it was 20c this morning, but 86% humidity again, and I was really sweaty.

Oh, yes, you are definitely right. Humidity is the real enemy...

[p_b82]

thought about having a go at the 10k on thursday, but had a thigh niggle so stopped when it didn't ease up after 5k..

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
44:37.3	10,000m	2:13.8	146	802	20	173
5:35.4	1,250m	2:14.1	145	798	21	160
5:37.3	2,500m	2:14.9	143	790	20	169
5:36.3	3,750m	2:14.5	144	794	20	169
5:36.7	5,000m	2:14.6	143	793	20	174
5:36.1	6,250m	2:14.4	144	795	20	175
5:36.4	7,500m	2:14.5	144	794	21	177
5:35.9	8,750m	2:14.3	144	796	20	179
5:23.2	10,000m	2:09.2	162	857	20	188

just smashed my previous open rate pb - was 47:17; there was a little more in the tank today too - I'd have loved to have sneaked under 44:30, but seeing as target was sub 45 I'm still chuffed!
Now to settle in and watch the rugby

[Sakly]

thought about having a go at the 10k on thursday, but had a thigh niggle so stopped when it didn't ease up after 5k..

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
44:37.3	10,000m	2:13.8	146	802	20	173
5:35.4	1,250m	2:14.1	145	798	21	160
5:37.3	2,500m	2:14.9	143	790	20	169
5:36.3	3,750m	2:14.5	144	794	20	169
5:36.7	5,000m	2:14.6	143	793	20	174
5:36.1	6,250m	2:14.4	144	795	20	175
5:36.4	7,500m	2:14.5	144	794	21	177
5:35.9	8,750m	2:14.3	144	796	20	179
5:23.2	10,000m	2:09.2	162	857	20	188

just smashed my previous open rate pb - was 47:17; there was a little more in the tank today too - I'd have loved to have sneaked under 44:30, but seeing as target was sub 45 I'm still chuffed!
Now to settle in and watch the rugby

Great improvement anyway, well done

[Kerry1960]

Well done p_b82. Massive improvement. All that r20 training is paying off.

[p_b82]

Thanks both

Well done p_b82. Massive improvement. All that r20 training is paying off.

Yup I reckon - 3m more per stroke; 2.6 more Wmin & overall 23W better on average; with a comparable HR at every split....