Best training program for improving 5,000 Mtr Time

[maritato1]

I dont care for long rows.
I have been doing a daily 5000 mtr row and have been improving my time steadily but I am sure I will soon hit a stalling point.

Is there any good program that will improve that time without having to row long distances

Thanks

Rich

[Nosmo]

Take a look at:

http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/5k-training/

His program is designed to be done in his lunch hour.
There is more info on it in the UK forum.

[johnlvs2run]

3x 5k with 7 minute rests in between

[randyharris]

I'm just really getting started on my Model D, and I'm wondering how important interval training is for me to get in better general condition.

Unlike maritato1 who doesn't like longer steady state rowing, I find that I enjoy doing a good 40ish minute rowing session, a time which happens to coincide with watching a TV show without commercials...

My goal is to row 3x per week and do our elliptical 1x or 2x per week. I'm willing to take up to an hour per rowing session if needed in order to complete my exercise.

Appreciate your thoughts on wether I need to be doing interval training now or wait until I get in better general rowing condition.

[Citroen]

My goal is to row 3x per week and do our elliptical 1x or 2x per week.

Erm, why not row 5x per week and forget the elliptical. You'll get a better workout on the rowing ergo.

[randyharris]

My goal is to row 3x per week and do our elliptical 1x or 2x per week.

Erm, why not row 5x per week and forget the elliptical. You'll get a better workout on the rowing ergo.

Two reasons:

1) mix it up a little bit, we've got a really nice elliptical and I like a little variety.

2) it's not a huge thing, but my rower is stowed in a closet when not in use, I take it out and setup only when I row (I know, all of about 2 minutes), the elliptical is always out so it's easy to just hop on and go.

BUT, when I am rowing, what do you think about intervals vs steady state?

[Bob S.]

BUT, when I am rowing, what do you think about intervals vs steady state?

What are your goals? For competition, you need both with emphasis on the long rows well before competition time and phasing in the intervals as you get into the competition season. If you are interested in improving your health and your general fitness, I see no need for intervals unless you want to do it to introduce a little variety to your program. Also, long rows don't necessarily have to be steady state. I don't have the patience to work out the details of the WP, but I have heard that it involves long rows with varying rates and paces — not as on and off intervals but just progressive changes. In the case of the WP, as I understand it, this is not for variety to relieve the boredom, but is specifically planned to improve performance in competition.

Bob S.

[randyharris]

What are your goals?

Bob S.

Thanks, I've got no interest in competition, just getting into better physical condition.

[Bob S.]

Thanks, I've got no interest in competition, just getting into better physical condition.

Well, in that case, like I said, I see no need for intervals. But I repeat that the long rows don't have to be steady state. Varying the rate and pace can spice them up a bit and make them less tedious.

Bob S.

[PaulS]

I dont care for long rows.
I have been doing a daily 5000 mtr row and have been improving my time steadily but I am sure I will soon hit a stalling point.

Is there any good program that will improve that time without having to row long distances

Thanks

Rich

What do you consider a "long distance row"? (the type you don't like)

To improve on a given distance (in the "Real Trial" distances between 2k and 6k), training rows up to twice the target distance will be quite beneficial.

[Nosmo]

...
To improve on a given distance (in the "Real Trial" distances between 2k and 6k), training rows up to twice the target distance will be quite beneficial.

I don't think you really mean that literally (i.e. training rows up to 4k will be quite beneficial for 2k races.)

You want to do distances rows of at least 10K for all races between 2K and 5K. The Wolverine Plan for example calls for 90 minutes rows for 2K races, however one can do very well with less depending on how serious one is.

[PaulS]

...
To improve on a given distance (in the "Real Trial" distances between 2k and 6k), training rows up to twice the target distance will be quite beneficial.

I don't think you really mean that literally (i.e. training rows up to 4k will be quite beneficial for 2k races.)

You want to do distances rows of at least 10K for all races between 2K and 5K. The Wolverine Plan for example calls for 90 minutes rows for 2K races, however one can do very well with less depending on how serious one is.

Yes, I actually do mean it quite literally, in the context of someone who does not like to do "long distances" (that are not defined yet). If I had to pick a minimum distance that I would recommend for 2k Training it would be 6k, but with the caveat that if you can complete the 6k in under 20 minutes then bump it up by as many 500m increments as needed. Then back that up with some type of CV cross training that you find less boring/more enjoyable. I don't mind the Wolverine Plan in concept and practice, but it overcomplicates some of the process IMO. Not really a bad thing, as it helps to reduce the tedium of Rowing on the Erg. And it fits the cardinal rules of training for anything, Well defined targets that are quantifiable and progressive; If it could pick your parents, it would as close to the Holy Grail of training as it gets.

[Nosmo]

...If I had to pick a minimum distance that I would recommend for 2k Training it would be 6k, but with the caveat that if you can complete the 6k in under 20 minutes then bump it up by as many 500m increments as needed....

So actually you really didn't mean it strictly literally.

Although I won't quibble too much with the above statement, I'd be happier if you had recommended 30 rows as a minimum for those without a lot of experience and 40 minutes for those who are more serious.

[PaulS]

...If I had to pick a minimum distance that I would recommend for 2k Training it would be 6k, but with the caveat that if you can complete the 6k in under 20 minutes then bump it up by as many 500m increments as needed....

So actually you really didn't mean it strictly literally.

Although I won't quibble too much with the above statement, I'd be happier if you had recommended 30 rows as a minimum for those without a lot of experience and 40 minutes for those who are more serious.

Okay, since this is becoming interesting to at least yourself and me, let's pursue the concept a bit further.

First we need to define a "Good performance" standard: How about 90th percentile in your Age/Weight/Gender class?

I've little doubt that one could meet that standard with the "Double the Target distance Training". (DTTDT)

Now just to make you happy, 30 minute range rows will be enough to get better than that (perhaps 95th percentile), and 40 minute range would be the longest continuous session that I would schedule for anyone (and if they aren't above the 90th percentile by that time, I'd suggest a change in training plan to get out of the "junk meters" mode that they must be in.).

The 20 minute figure comes from the basic standard duration for CV benefit that I have believed for the last 25+ years, probably from watching too much "20 minute Workout", but Bess Motta was hot, Hot, HOT!!!

[Nosmo]

Well yes this is interesting.

In the context that athlete does not like long erg peices and is doing some CV cross training, then I more or less agree with you.

I'm not convinced that doing the Pete Plan, with the hard distance and the steady distances days are all on the order of 10K will get everyone who does it in the top 10% or even 5% in the rankings. And I certainly would not consider that program as containing lots of "junk meters", or that doing shorter distances would result in faster 2K times (unless the athlete didn't work up to it and was over trained).

If you are arguing for something like 3x4k/3r over a 12K continuous, then I won't argue. I don't know enough to judge one over the other for 2K training.

It has been 26 years (college) since I've seriously trained for 2K races, and I haven't really coached anyone, so I'm sure I'll end up deferring to your expertise. Back then there was no way I was in the top 10% in my age group--at 5'7" and 138 lbs senior year I think I was smaller then anyone we ever raced against, but I think my erg scores were pretty good (pre-concept II ergs so I'm not sure).