Hi Everyone
I used to post occasionally on the older C2 Forum - I don't know if the accounts have been switched over, but I can't seem to log in, so have created a new one. I may well have just forgotten my login details, it's been the best part of a year since my last visit!
Basically I'm wondering if any of the people here can help me out with a programme.
I'm a 21 year old final year university student, and on-water rower in the UK. I'm 6 feet tall exactly, and around 90kg/200lbs. I know I'm currently carrying too much fat, as when I was pulling my PB times in 2006, I weighed about 82kg. I have not pulled a PB on the erg since Autumn of 2006, when I pulled 6:35 for 2k, and roughly 8200 for 30 min rate 20.
Having had various health complaints over the 2007 season, I went to see the doctor, and found that I am Asthmatic - I got badly ill with a chest infection in Christmas of 06-07 and that may have triggered something. 2007 was a horrible stop-start year for training when just as I felt like I was getting somewhere, I'd come down with breathing problems again. So far, I've had a mixed winter's training - horrible from October-January, but finally feeling as though I'm starting to find some form from mid January onwards, since my diagnosis and starting on Asthma medication. My last 2k test was a 6:42 in November which all things considered at the time wasn't too bad.
So, that's the background, here's the problem - I'm really desperate to hold on to my seat in the Uni's first boat. At the moment I have a lad breathing down my neck who's much bigger and stronger than me, but I am technically a better technical rower than him. The distance we'll be racing over with the eight in the summer is 2000m, and if the previous years selection criteria are the same, we will be raced off against each other over 1000m, aswell as having 2000m ergometer test times taken into account (he pulls around 6:15). So, I really need to improve my power and sprint work, and was wondering if anyone here can help.
Since January, I have been working roughly to this training programme:
Monday - 1/2 Hour at 20spm - UT1/AT (not sure which band it would be classed as exactly - as hard as you can pull at 20spm), followed by heavy weights.
Tuesday - 20 Min Run, 20 Min Erg, 20 Min Run
Wednesday - Water session, usually 12-16k UT2 with some higher rate pieces around AT, heavy weights.
Thursday - Same as Tuesday
Friday - 50 Minute (6 mile) run.
Saturday and Sunday - 2 water sessions per day, 1st one around 16K UT2 with some pieces, second session 8-10k Technical.
I've been running a lot as I'm trying to get the weight under control, and it is slowly starting to creep down. In the transition to the summer season, I did my first interval session last week - a pyramid of 1 minute, 1 minute rest, 2 min then 2 min rest etc up to 4 mins and down again. I averaged around 1:40/1:41 which I was reasonably happy with, but I think I need to be getting down below the 1:40s really. (On a seperate note that was on a Model D - has anyone else noticed they don't seem to be able to get as good splits on a D as a C?)
Anyway, if anyone can help me to put together a sprint programme, that would be greatly appreciated. I'm currently just under the remit of keeping myself fit as I'm in a university holiday at the moment, so have no set training I have to do. I can only really fit in about 1 session a day though as I'm having to live in the library writing up my final year project, which is due the first day of summer term.
Timescale wise, I am training on my own until Saturday 5 April, when I go on a week's training camp with our squad. After that, I have one week until our 500m Universities sprints regatta, 1 week after that until our main universities regatta (over 2000m), then the squad system breaks up for exams so I will be doing my own thing again - I imagine the racing and testing for the boat for Henley, which is the ultimate aim, will be in the third or fourth week of May.
Apologies for rambling on for so long, if anyone's managed to fight their way through my post and can offer any advice, that would be greatly appreciated!
Many thanks,
Simon
Sharpening Up
-
Englishman116
- Paddler
- Posts: 37
- Joined: April 17th, 2007, 12:35 am
- Contact:
Hello!
I don't know if my advice will be of much help; I've only had one summer/fall season of sculling under my belt, and I'm 3 weeks into spring sculling. However, I know a lot about work ethic.
I was in a similar situation with a person my age who had much more experience than me and always beat me out on the water. I figured the only way to beat him was to out-work him. So I began doing double sessions every day, one sculling session and one erging session. I focused mainly on endurance during my erging sessions (1 hours+ at 160 HR). By the end of Fall, I was kicking his ass, as I was getting in twice the amount of work he was.
I understand your time constraints (final paper), but if I were to modify your workout schedule, I would add longer sessions of erging. For example: on Tues/Thurs, maybe you could replace that workout with 80 minutes of steady-state? You'd lose the weight and benefit from the longer row. Also, maybe you could replace some heavy lifting with weight-circuits to work AT? I know there's debate as to how effective weight-training is, but I've cut my times down a lot by throwing in 2 leg circuits per week. Maybe on Friday, you could do a weekly sprint workout (pyramids, 3 x 1000, etc). I hope this helps, I'm sure you'll get your times to where they need to be.
I don't know if my advice will be of much help; I've only had one summer/fall season of sculling under my belt, and I'm 3 weeks into spring sculling. However, I know a lot about work ethic.
I was in a similar situation with a person my age who had much more experience than me and always beat me out on the water. I figured the only way to beat him was to out-work him. So I began doing double sessions every day, one sculling session and one erging session. I focused mainly on endurance during my erging sessions (1 hours+ at 160 HR). By the end of Fall, I was kicking his ass, as I was getting in twice the amount of work he was.
I understand your time constraints (final paper), but if I were to modify your workout schedule, I would add longer sessions of erging. For example: on Tues/Thurs, maybe you could replace that workout with 80 minutes of steady-state? You'd lose the weight and benefit from the longer row. Also, maybe you could replace some heavy lifting with weight-circuits to work AT? I know there's debate as to how effective weight-training is, but I've cut my times down a lot by throwing in 2 leg circuits per week. Maybe on Friday, you could do a weekly sprint workout (pyramids, 3 x 1000, etc). I hope this helps, I'm sure you'll get your times to where they need to be.
Simon, I will make three quick suggestions which you can consider and do some search engine work on if interested.
1. Look into using the powerlung. It is designed to condition your muscles of respiration. This will be useful to you both for training purposes and because of your pulmonary problems ( asthma, pneumonia in the past, and continued respiratory problems.) I got one last year and feel like the respiratory part of the sprint work is far less painful than before.
2. Use a good protein supplement to help with recovery and to maintain muscle mass. You won't have a chance against the guy if you loose muscle in addition to the fat. I like whey protein, often mixing with egg white protein. This is good for recovery ( muscle replenishes most readily within 2 hours after a workout) Should also help you keep from getting that over trained feeling as easily.
3. Consider adding some Tabata type interval training to get maximal anaerobic and aerobic gains.
Make sure to give yourself plenty of recovery time. Your body adapts to the stress of workout during the rest phase of training. It can take as much as 48 hours for muscles to recover following an intense workout. I find that I do best with no more than 2 hard sessions per week with a couple light days in between each, but I am a bit older than you!
Good luck!
Pam
1. Look into using the powerlung. It is designed to condition your muscles of respiration. This will be useful to you both for training purposes and because of your pulmonary problems ( asthma, pneumonia in the past, and continued respiratory problems.) I got one last year and feel like the respiratory part of the sprint work is far less painful than before.
2. Use a good protein supplement to help with recovery and to maintain muscle mass. You won't have a chance against the guy if you loose muscle in addition to the fat. I like whey protein, often mixing with egg white protein. This is good for recovery ( muscle replenishes most readily within 2 hours after a workout) Should also help you keep from getting that over trained feeling as easily.
3. Consider adding some Tabata type interval training to get maximal anaerobic and aerobic gains.
Make sure to give yourself plenty of recovery time. Your body adapts to the stress of workout during the rest phase of training. It can take as much as 48 hours for muscles to recover following an intense workout. I find that I do best with no more than 2 hard sessions per week with a couple light days in between each, but I am a bit older than you!
Good luck!
Pam
-
Citroen
- SpamTeam
- Posts: 7994
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:28 pm
- Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Re: Sharpening Up
The old forum was hacked. The logon credentials weren't transfered when this new forum was created.RUBCSimon wrote:Hi Everyone
I used to post occasionally on the older C2 Forum - I don't know if the accounts have been switched over
Since you're a Brit from Reading you'll want to sign up on http://concept2.co.uk/forum; there are lots of Reading rowers on that forum.
If you fancy doing an indoor 2500m, 300m or 100m race, I'm running one in Basingstoke on April 5th http://rowing.dyn-o-saur.com/BSTK2008.
-
RUBCSimon
- Paddler
- Posts: 3
- Joined: March 24th, 2008, 7:38 pm
- Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK
- Contact:
Many thanks for the responses everyone - I've heard of something called the Powerbreathe in the UK, is that the same thing branded differently?
I use a Lucozade recovery drink already, which is about 70% carb to 30% protein, would you recommend changing to something with more protein in it?
Citroen - thanks for the heads up, I'll take a look at the UK forum. Unfortunately I leave for training camp on the 5th, so won't be able to make the race.
I use a Lucozade recovery drink already, which is about 70% carb to 30% protein, would you recommend changing to something with more protein in it?
Citroen - thanks for the heads up, I'll take a look at the UK forum. Unfortunately I leave for training camp on the 5th, so won't be able to make the race.
Tentative suggestions
I have only been erging seriously for 6 months, so this is not experience talking just rehash of what makes sense to me from reading lots of posts by people who know what they are talking about, so please read critically.
Putting on muscle is the main purpose of weight training which is extremely difficult while losing weight. Subject to the comment about retaining the lean mass you have, I you may be better off doing more erging and drop/curtail heavy weights.
You are looking for rapid improvement. Long ergs are great long term, but I haven't seen much support for these having a dramatic effect over 6 weeks.
I agree with Englishman that the running may not be optimum. You need to maintain motivation, so if you really enjoy these fine, but 10k+ steady ergs will be more rowing specific.
Also, you need some speed work for 1k / 2k. I would recommend 8 x 500m with 3:30 rest between. Your pyramid has a relatively short recovery time for an all out sharpening workout.
Hope it goes well.
Iain
Putting on muscle is the main purpose of weight training which is extremely difficult while losing weight. Subject to the comment about retaining the lean mass you have, I you may be better off doing more erging and drop/curtail heavy weights.
You are looking for rapid improvement. Long ergs are great long term, but I haven't seen much support for these having a dramatic effect over 6 weeks.
I agree with Englishman that the running may not be optimum. You need to maintain motivation, so if you really enjoy these fine, but 10k+ steady ergs will be more rowing specific.
Also, you need some speed work for 1k / 2k. I would recommend 8 x 500m with 3:30 rest between. Your pyramid has a relatively short recovery time for an all out sharpening workout.
Hope it goes well.
Iain
-
RUBCSimon
- Paddler
- Posts: 3
- Joined: March 24th, 2008, 7:38 pm
- Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK
- Contact:
Thanks Iain
I remember when I was in what I felt was the best shape ever, I had done no weight training all winter and just focused on dropping fat - I ended up at about 78kg, and felt amazingly fit. However, I didn't have much power, so I started doing weights which is when the PB's came along when I was about 82kg.
However, I think as you've been saying I may be looking at two incompatible goals with trying to lose weight and put on muscle. I guess moving more of my fitness work on to the erg would allow me to improve my fitness without dropping off the muscle in the way running does as there's still resistance there.
I'm starting to reach the light at the end of the tunnel with my project now, so will hopefully be able to start reverting to two sessions a day to try and really improve myself.
Cheers
Simon
I remember when I was in what I felt was the best shape ever, I had done no weight training all winter and just focused on dropping fat - I ended up at about 78kg, and felt amazingly fit. However, I didn't have much power, so I started doing weights which is when the PB's came along when I was about 82kg.
However, I think as you've been saying I may be looking at two incompatible goals with trying to lose weight and put on muscle. I guess moving more of my fitness work on to the erg would allow me to improve my fitness without dropping off the muscle in the way running does as there's still resistance there.
I'm starting to reach the light at the end of the tunnel with my project now, so will hopefully be able to start reverting to two sessions a day to try and really improve myself.
Cheers
Simon
Simon, you already have very good advice, I just want to strengthen some of it.RUBCSimon wrote:I think as you've been saying I may be looking at two incompatible goals with trying to lose weight and put on muscle. I guess moving more of my fitness work on to the erg would allow me to improve my fitness without dropping off the muscle in the way running does as there's still resistance there.
Yes, go for less carbs but maintain lots of protains post workout. That will better support the aim of losing weight while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible (some will be lost but that is OK).
Do not do any running! Replace with rowing!
Make sure you get two intensive interval sessions per week, they will boost your improvement as well as better maintain muscle mass than steady state rows. For ideas about god intervals, have a look at the Pete Plan on teh UK forum under training (I am Gothenburg there)
Good luck!
47 years, 186/85
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1195449471.png[/img]
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1195449471.png[/img]
-
chickenlegs
- Paddler
- Posts: 29
- Joined: February 17th, 2008, 6:14 am
my advice:
if you want to be a better weight lifter, then lift weights.
if you want to be a better cyclist, then bike more.
if you want to be a better rower, then ROW.
row more, row better (= good timing, good balance, good blade work, etc.).
if you are 182/82 you will almost always lose to a guy who is 195/95 on the erg.
on the erg both you and him are pulling on a chain attached to a metal wheel of given mass.
if he has more musclar mass (especially in the legs), the metal wheel will be realtively lighter for him than for you.
compare heavyweight to lightweight (same age) scores for any major indoor rowing race.
not even close.
compare on the water times.
extremely close.
not unusual for lightweights to beat heavy weights.
on the water you are accelerating your own mass (plus the boat, but that's a constant in seat racing).
having less mass will compensate having less power and you may beat the bigger guy who regularly smokes you on the machine.
if you want to be a better weight lifter, then lift weights.
if you want to be a better cyclist, then bike more.
if you want to be a better rower, then ROW.
row more, row better (= good timing, good balance, good blade work, etc.).
if you are 182/82 you will almost always lose to a guy who is 195/95 on the erg.
on the erg both you and him are pulling on a chain attached to a metal wheel of given mass.
if he has more musclar mass (especially in the legs), the metal wheel will be realtively lighter for him than for you.
compare heavyweight to lightweight (same age) scores for any major indoor rowing race.
not even close.
compare on the water times.
extremely close.
not unusual for lightweights to beat heavy weights.
on the water you are accelerating your own mass (plus the boat, but that's a constant in seat racing).
having less mass will compensate having less power and you may beat the bigger guy who regularly smokes you on the machine.
The weight adjusted time from a 95kg 6:15 for 82kg per training guide is 6:27. So I think Simon will struggle on your argument alone. However, beat him on the water and all you have to do is convince the coach that you can get stronger/fitter as quickly as he can get faster from improving technique.chickenlegs wrote:my advice:...if you are 182/82 you will almost always lose to a guy who is 195/95 on the erg....
compare on the water times.
extremely close.
not unusual for lightweights to beat heavy weights.
on the water you are accelerating your own mass (plus the boat, but that's a constant in seat racing).
having less mass will compensate having less power and you may beat the bigger guy who regularly smokes you on the machine.
Regards
Iain