Weight Training

[Bob S.]

Interesting:

"Canadian researchers found that a group of rowers who strength trained for five weeks before five weeks of endurance training were rewarded by a 16% increase in VO2max and a 27% improvement in lactate tolerance(8). By contrast, rowers who trained in the reverse order boosted VO2max by only 7% and showed no improvement in lactate tolerance. The explanation? The strength-before-endurance group gained quality rowing muscle without compromise, and were able to use it to row harder and faster, with greater fatigue-resistance, during endurance training. Working out for weight training gains alone may have enabled them to push beyond their ‘normal’ previously conditioned rowing power levels."

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/concurr ... ining.html

Phil

Phil,

I think that you need to reread that with a bit more care:

Which group’s rowing improved the most? When subjects were tested on a rowing ergometer the researchers found no difference between any of the groups in terms of peak power output or peak lactate levels. So the weight training apparently served no purpose. Similar findings emerged from a US study, when élite male weight-training rowers displayed no increase in VO2max by comparison with a rowing-only group, who improved their VO2max by up to 16% during pre-season training (2). So, it looks like our happy couple’s relationship is not off to a very good start!

Bob S.

[philrow]

Right, well the claim that concludes the article stating that those rowers who strength-trained had a 9% increase in VO2max and ~27% increase in lactate tolerance over those rowers who did not weight train would indicate that weigh training apparently did serve a purpose.

Although, while some of the articles on that site are interesting, they don't alway seem to be clearly and logically written...

Phil

[almostflipped]

I'm not an exercise physiologist, but I'd like to look at this article in a different light.

1) The physiological testing occured after the 10th week. As such the group who just completed aerobic training will have better results as the other group has detrained aerobically for 5 weeks. In other words, the very design of the study is flawed towards a predisposed outcome.

2) The study with 3 groups (high reps, low reps, and no reps) found no difference in the groups. It's my understanding that in the first five weeks of a training program, "strength" gains are due to neurological adaptations to the specific motion pattern (may be wrong term, but the muscles are not getting stronger, you are just learning how to use them more efficiently). If these are varsity rowers than we must assume they are already performing at a high level of efficiency on an erg. As such, in my mind, you wouldn't see benefits for at least 8-10 weeks after real muscular adaptation has begun. Even then you still would not see benefits until the real adaptations are then expressed in the erg pattern. In other words, if your muscles get bigger then you must learn to use the bigger muscles in the rowing motion.

3) The article cites a similar study using elite athletes. I would reassert what I said in point 2, except note that elite athletes will be even more efficient in the rowing motion and would require an even longer time before any difference was seen. Moreover, the VO2max is unrelated to strength in the short term. Given a longer time to see real gains in strength with a training program that is appropriately balanced between MS, Power, and Endurance I would say there may be a difference.

Again, I'm not an exercise scientist, but I have to wonder about the use of these studies that have (to my eye) flaws in them. Moreover, the author notes further in the article that nearly every study did have issues that could readily explain the negative results. This does not raise any confidence in me. Ultimately, I think the only way to truly answer the question of the benefit of strength training in endurance sport would be a long term (ie: 1-3 year) study that tracks the progress of several groups against each other. From a scientific POV, I should think this would be very difficult to accomplish as there would be so many variables to account for.

My opinion, go ask some coaches who have been in the sport for 10+ years and have a reasonable rate of success. They have likely tried both ways and will have seen the effects of both over the long term. Sometimes experience trumps "science" due to the lack of funding/time restrictions.

EDIT: Added about 5 minutes after first post. I do recall reading studies that supported the notion that after a point, strength was of no further benefit to a rower (and that this notion exists in other sports too). In my mind this a more valid assertion and perhaps is something to investigate further in your readings. Try Nolte's book, the name escapes me ("Rowing Faster" I think) as I thought the results were in there.

[TabbRows]

I'm no excercise physiologist either, but it seems to me that a little common sense needs to be used when thinking about the benefits/nonbenfits of weight training.

Looking at the average times in the the C2 rankings, most of us are not elite athletes. So until these studies focus on longer term benefits of intense weight training versus simply "doing your sport", i.e. rowing OTW or via ergo, for non-elite athletes, IMHO they make for interesting perusal but less filling for use.

Most trainers/coachs would argue that for those individuals without a recent history in a sport would benefit from weight training simply to develop the muscles needed to perform the sport adequately. Once "up-to-speed", the benefits of weight training for a specific sport versus just doing the sport, probably drop off. However, there are benefits of an overall resistance training program on one's health. First, such a program can aide in muscular balance and flexibility for less dominant muscles used/not used in the sport, thus assisting in injury prevention. Second, especially for folks like me who continuously shred the membership mailings from the AARP, resistance training aids in maintaining muscle mass which has this nasty tendency to slip away as one ages. Thus all around we'll feel and be stronger than if we did nothing. But as those who "have raced"( as Carla and Rick put it) in CRASH B's know, you can't pump iron your way to sub 7s. You gotta put in the hard work on the ergo.

[Englishman116]

I have found that circuit workouts benefit me the most. I do circuit workouts primarily for my legs, and it definitely carries over to the erg. However, there are right ways and wrong ways to do a circuit workout. If you do it right, you should feel like you just completed a 2k test by the end. This is what I do:

30 manual squats
15 Leg Extensions (Nautalis Machine)
15 Leg Curls (Nautalis Machine)
20 Inverted Leg Press
20 Lunges w/ weights
30 Calve Pushes on Inverted Leg Press
(Repeat the circuit 4x with no breaks in between sets/reps.)

This sort of workout targets all the muscles in your legs, and I’ve found it helps balance out the muscles not used on the erg. These workouts are more beneficial than others, as your heart rate doesn’t drop. You are constantly moving; there are no rests. My max HR is 205, and when I monitored it during one of these circuits, it was around 160-170 the entire time, with peaks of 185-190 towards the end of sets.

After starting circuit workouts, I’ve noticed a lot of improvements on the erg. I erg 3-4 times a week, and do this workout 2-3 times a week. I shaved 15 seconds off of my erg score in 6 weeks doing this; I would recommend it to anyone incorporating weight training into their workouts. Also, my workout is just a mere guideline to a circuit workout; you can alter it however you like, so long as it focuses on higher reps with no breaks in between sets.

On a side-note, I have done low-rep power-building exercises, and from personal experience, you will benefit more from a circuit workout than you will those. I feel that this is because you’re targeting the longevity that your muscles can sustain high intensity stress, rather than focusing solely on shorter bursts of power.

[almostflipped]

But have you tried doing that circuit for 6 weeks, then doing an 8 week cycle of max strength work to up your 1RM, then gone back to the circuit now able to use a higher weight for the same reps? Then rinse, wash, and repeat for a year? On the off chance that you have, please share the results as I really would be interested in hearing your experiences.

When it comes to lifting I think that people get caught up in the idea that one style is the best style. Instead I think a fair mix of everything balanced out to take advantage of the physiological benefits that each style has to bring at appropriate times throughout the year is a better way to look at it. This is similar to the way we train our cardio system. We do SS, AT, Trans, AN, speed work, power work, etc... with different emphasis based on proximity to race day. We can do all the SS we want, if we never do the Trans to up our potential power, we will never max out our 2k. Similarly if we do nothing but Trans but never get the endurance from SS to maintain the now higher levels of power, we will never max out our 2k.

For what its worth, I am intrigued by the idea of mixing different forms of strength training within the same cycle. I haven't had the opportunity to test this on athletes, but other coaches that I know have had success with it.

I do like that circuit though.

[TomR]

weight training for rowers:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/rowstre.htm

[Englishman116]

almostflipped, you are right in the fact that I have not done a thorough study on this circuit. But I feel whether to weight-train or not is entirely subjective, as one has to take into account a rower's natural ability to become faster overtime. The studies on "elite" athletes may show that weight-lifting has very little benefit, but that may be because they have worked so hard for so many years, that they have already reached their peak level of performace. On the other hand, a rower new to the sport may benefit from mixing in both the right type of weight-lifting along with rowing.

You are correct though. The fact that I say that doing lower-rep work does not benefit as much as a circuit workout is entirely subjective. However, in that article mentioned earlier in this topic, it did say that rowers are most-likely to benefit from circuit training. Again, it's all personal opinion; a mix of everything may very-well be the right way to go for some people but not others.