The Road To Boston 2008

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Nosmo
10k Poster
Posts: 1595
Joined: November 21st, 2006, 3:39 pm

Post by Nosmo » February 7th, 2008, 10:30 pm

Rowmaniac wrote:...
Nosmo, I didn't realize you live in the Bay Area. Where are you? Sorry to hear about your knee. I would love to meet you. Will you be in Boston?
...

I'm in Berkeley and row on Lake Merritt. I think you did BIAC and some of the other races I did last fall. I'm sure we can find each other at one of the races this year, perhaps the Lake Merritt Sprints.

Not doing Boston and never will unless I'm back east for some other reason. My days of traveling more then a few hours for races are long gone. I've had years of competitive bike racing running and rowing and there is no way I have the time to be as competitive as I was ten (or twenty or thirty) years ago. Maybe when I retire... Now I just try to have good races and make it fun.

My knee is not a big deal. Hurt it running years ago and it acts up every now and then.

tdekoekkoek
1k Poster
Posts: 194
Joined: December 22nd, 2007, 12:21 am
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Contact:

Post by tdekoekkoek » February 7th, 2008, 11:55 pm

Deborah, excellent 1500 time. And impressive AN times. My feeling is if you can pull that in a workout in the middle of the week with no taper, you surely can hang with that pace for 2K on race day.

Roy, 132 drag? Well you obviously know what you're doing, but personally I find that high.

Seems the middle distance "pain zone" rows are the order of the day. I did a 1200 today in 3:57.5 for a 1:38.9 avg. I was going to do 3, but decided I'd had enough and did 4*300m with 1:20 rest instead:

1:36.5 31 spm
1:34.5 31 spm
1:31.6 34 spm
1:29.3 36 spm
Trevor de Koekkoek: 46yrs, 190lbs

[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1204034405.png[/img]
Latest Rowing Videos:[url=http://www.rowtube.net]http://www.rowtube.net[/url]

seat5
2k Poster
Posts: 467
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 8:28 pm

Post by seat5 » February 8th, 2008, 12:22 am

My husband figured out my accurate 5K, 6K, and 30 min scores. The 30 min he took the last 277 m and figured out the meters/second and then took off enough seconds' worth to get the 30 min.
5K 19:50.6
6K 23:49.0
30 min 7557
a little off PBs but then it was a longer piece.

Deborah, I can't wait to meet you and to celebrate after the race! (no matter what happens I will be celebrating it being OVER!!)

Tom, seems like you are due for an SB in the 10K!
Carla Stein--F 47 HWT

[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1193870739.png[/img]

User avatar
michaelb
2k Poster
Posts: 469
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:10 pm
Location: Burlington, Vermont

Post by michaelb » February 8th, 2008, 12:22 am

I joined Chad's "house of pain" workout online tonight. One of the hardest nights of rowing I have done, and I probably could have pushed harder since I was holding back in order to survive. I am struggling to row strapped back down again, and this was good practice for that, but my hips ache and my right leg just doesn't feel right and likes to cramp up (this is an obvious sign that I still have technical flaws in my stroke and was cheating at some thing unstrapped).

In any case, just to share:
2k warm up
250 (1:47.2)
500 (1:50.2) (chatting with Pam and missed the start)
1000 (1:46.2)
1500 (1:50.8)
2000 (1:56.7)
1500 (1:50.9)
1000 (1:46.3)
500 (1:43.8)
250 (1:36.4)
2k warm dn

We had varying rest, but it never seemed to be enough. I think Chad times the rest with a sand through the hourglass egg timer so it never matches up with my synced daily with the atomic clock digital watch. I notice my average paces are a lot slower than I thought I was rowing, so in the short distances I am getting punished for starting slow. I did intervals yesterday too, so was feeling sore before we started.

Am seriously contemplating scheduling a 2k test row for this Sat (15 GMT) just to get that over with and go sub7 now in advance. But I have to see what I feel like tomorrow morning first.
Last edited by michaelb on February 8th, 2008, 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13

whp4
6k Poster
Posts: 665
Joined: March 15th, 2006, 10:09 pm

Post by whp4 » February 8th, 2008, 12:23 am

seat5 wrote:Std erg.
7777m 30:50 1:58.9/25

I'd like to figure out my 30 min time from it but don't know how. I did the splits at 500m so I can get my 5K and 6K time off it, just to see how they compare to doing those events separately but I've taken a stupid pill and can't figure out how to get my accurate 30 min from it. I know taking the av. isn't right because the last 277 m I did at 1:54.
Well, if you did 277m at 500m/1:54 that means it took you 277/500 * 1:54 or 1:03.156 to cover that 277m. So you did 7777-277 m = 7500 m in 30:50 - 1:03.2 = 29:46.8. That leaves 30:00 - 29:46.8 = 13.2 s @ 500m/1:54 to complete the half hour, and in that time you would go 57.9 meters, so 7500+57.9 = 7557.9 m is the distance you covered in 30 minutes assuming that you actually rowed 1:54 pace for each stroke of the final 277m. Obviously, if you rowed appreciably faster or slower than that for the strokes of the final 277m that happened before 30 minutes had elapsed, the number will be a bit different, but given that you only had 13.2 seconds to go, not all that much different. If instead of accelerating you did the final 13.2 seconds of the half hour at the exact same pace as you averaged before, you would have gone 7555.4 m. At the other extreme, had you suddenly pulled 1:30 for the last 13.2 seconds in the 30 minutes (slowing down considerably after the half hour was done so that the last 277 m averaged out to 1:54 pace) you would only have gotten the total up to about 7573, hardly worth the effort, right? :lol:

Nosmo, I'm not sure where you're getting the 50 seconds number...

Bob S.
Marathon Poster
Posts: 5142
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:00 pm

The Beach Sprints — a personal report

Post by Bob S. » February 8th, 2008, 1:45 am

I have been procrastinating about this for a week and a half, dithering about whether or not I should send out a boring personal account. I finally decided to go ahead. Those who are bored can just close it and go on to the next message.

I got back 11 days ago, late Sunday afternoon, 7 pounds heavier, a few hundred dollars less in the bank account, and almost 700 miles more on the odometer of my mini-pickup. I hoped at the time that the weight increase was due — at least in part — to water retention as a result of eating a lot of overly salted restaurant food. Within a day or so I lost a couple of those pounds, so that was probably the case. I have since lost another 3 or 4 pounds, so I am more or less back to normal.

The drives:
I left home in the mid morning of Tuesday the 22nd, had a cold, windy snack/pit stop at the US 395 rest area at Coso Junction and a truck refueling stop at Mojave, another cold, windy stop and the beginning of a rain storm that stayed with me until I was past the hills and dropping down into the San Fernando Valley, arriving at the south Motel 6 in Long Beach in late afternoon. The total time including short stops was about 5 1/2 hours. The return home on Sunday the 27th was the mirror image of the trip to the coast — same timing, same stops, and the same weather pattern, but just in reverse.

Shopping:
Going from this remote area to the SoCal metropolis, I felt like a kid in a candy store.
TJs, not just one, but a half dozen or more.
A couple of Ikeas to choose from.
At least three REIs.
Several Home Depots.
A couple of Apple Stores.
A conveniently located Target.
A discount clothing place less than a half block from the motel.
Also, the motel is about a mile and a half walk from LBRA (1.8 miles by the street route) and I was told by one of the members that there are about 80 restaurants within in 2 miles of the boathouse. That’s probably more than Inyo and Mono counties combined.

Weather:

Three heavy, heavy rainstorms while I was there. Those were in addition to the storms on the drives out and back. It was sunny and clear on both days that I did time trials, a useless 1K on Thursday and the actual 2K race on Saturday. But before the races were over in the late afternoon, the sky had gone leaden with a promise of a storm Saturday night.

Traffic:
Yuck. I always get culture shock about the time I get over Soledad Pass and start the descent into the basin. The heavy rainstorms did not help, but back home in Big Pine, my wife had to put up with snow. At least I did not encounter that, but I was concerned that it might have been a problem going back over Soledad pass at around 3200 ft. The midweek storms had a snow level below that, but it warmed up later and it was just rain when I went back.

Internet:
A nearby Kinko’s would let me online for about 10 bucks an hour. No thanks. I had my laptop with me and Motel 6 had fliers advertising a WiFi card at $2.99 for 24 hours, which didn’t sound too bad. I was only a few minutes walk from the Cal State Long Beach campus, so I went over there to check out the facilities of their large library. It turned out that they offered free guest privileges for one hour a day. With a couple of hundred new HPs in an auditorium size room, there was no waiting, so I took advantage of it. There were a couple of problems, like my unfamiliarity with Windows and some system restrictions on opening attachments, so I wasn’t sure that I had accomplished my missions. I ended up getting a WiFi card at Motel 6 and found out that the messages had gone out O.K. and that I could open the attachments on my own computer. The next morning, I still had time left to use the WiFi and on the third morning, I used the free hour at CSULB. On Saturday, I felt that I didn’t have the time to go there and back before the races, so I bought a second WiFi card, figuring on using it again early Sunday before I left for home. That was fine for Saturday, but I overslept Sunday morning and had timed out on the card. No problem — I had stumbled across a hot spot a couple of days before, so I drove there, got on the net for free, and got my fix (downloading the daily air pollution maps).

Time trials and races.
In an effort to try to improve my nonathlon score and push Ergonaut to do his marathon, I counted on improving my 1K and 2K times while I had the opportunity to do them at sea level. Accordingly, I did a 1K on Thursday, after a 10’ wakeup and the Eddie Fletcher warm up. I did the E.F. warm up at considerably faster paces than called for, but I figured that at sea level it would probably be O.K. On the 1K, I didn’t really check to see what pace I should be pushing for, but about half way through, I realized that I had been at too fast a pace and was fading rapidly. I was doing 100m splits. The first four were at 2:00, 1:56.5, 1:56.5, and 1:56.5. After that it started to climb and by the 9th split had ballooned to 2:08.4. I finished with a feeble 2:04.5 “kick,” for a final time of 4:00.6 a long way off from my SB of 3:56.8. I think that the problem was a combination of a warm up that was too intense and of going at too fast a pace from 100 – 500 meters.

The 2K went much better. My old SB was 8:22.2. The HWT qualifying time was 8:20.0 and I did 8:11.0, so it was successful on those counts, but a long way from what I had been doing a year ago.

As for the nonathlon, it is a dead issue. The 1K was obviously a flop and the 2K, although a big improvement for the season, was still my lowest nonathlon score, so it is still the one that is dropped, thus no change whatsoever in the nonathlon score. My only chance now for improvement is to try to repeat my three low score middle distance trials, 5K, 6K, and 30.’ At this point I don’t have the motivation to do it. I was tempted to try to redo the 1K on Sunday morning before I drove home, but I overslept that morning and didn’t want to waste any more time. The one attempt that I made at home to improve the 1K time was worse than the trial at Long Beach.

Bob S.

Veronique
Paddler
Posts: 24
Joined: September 26th, 2007, 1:40 pm

Post by Veronique » February 8th, 2008, 12:06 pm

Wow! Great 1500 Deborah and good luck on the qualifiers this weekend. You should probably sail right through. Carla, you're CTC is absolutely amazing. That's a long distance to be pulling that hard.

Bob, great story. Images of roadmovies come up when reading it. Congratulations on making the qualifying time on the 2k. On the 1k:it's always painful to F&D, but there's one advantage: at least you know that there was nothing left at the end whereas, when you save some for the sprint there's always the gnawing doubt that somehow you could have gone faster if you started faster (hope that makes sense)

60' WP L4(ish) today. Pushed a bit more than I typically do on this workout: 2:10.6 at 18.9 average spm. Very "Zen" like row today: just trying to hit the exact spm every stroke; otherwise no thinking so time flew. (The variation in stroke rates and the resulting interest in sticking to them and thus "staying in the moment" is the main reason I like these sessions so much better than continuous long sessions at the same rate.)

Tomorrow's 4x1k. Will treat this as a test to see what I should plan for in Boston. I actually like this session but we'll see whether than still goes after tomorrow. Aiming for 1:53. (Now that I've written it, I gotta do it.)

Veronique

User avatar
Yankeerunner
10k Poster
Posts: 1193
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:17 pm
Location: West Newbury, MA
Contact:

Post by Yankeerunner » February 8th, 2008, 12:25 pm

Rocket, good workout at S10MPS. I've got to work harder at it. I can only get to about 26spm before losing the rhythm and jerking on the handle to keep the split down. :?

Deborah, I'm in agreement with the other comments directed toward you. I think sub-7:15 is in the cards unless some disaster strikes. Like you I also train frequently and hard, and for the same reason you cite. When race time comes around I want to know, when I get fatigued, that I've been through it over and over again in training and can do it this time too. At times I've misjudged and overtrainied, but I've also done my best racing off the periods when I got it right. Best wishes at PIRC.

Carla, good 7777M! :shock: I'm going to have to try to chase that down before the end of the month.

Trevor, looking good for Saturday's race.

Bob, thanks for the report. Too bad about the 1000m. Ergonaut needs some pushing. :D

Veronique, good luck with the 4 X 1km. I think I like that better than 4 X 4' even though it's roughly the same.

Last night it was time for another 2km .

2454m 11:00.0 2:14.5 23spm (warmup)
2000m 07:14.7 1:48.7 34spm
2179m 11:00.0 2:31.4 18spm (cooldown)

50 Degrees, 130df, Dwight Yoakam on the CD player. Again I took off the rib wrap after the warmup and probably got more in in the lungs because of it. I'd intended to get off at the 1:49.6 pace the I completed Sunday's trial, but I was slow off the racing start on the PM4 and took longer than expected to get the average split below 1:50.0. In general it didn't feel any worse than on Sunday even though I ended up 3.6 seconds faster with a similar 'kick.' I should be able to bring it down more in the next two weeks if I'm not a wuss.
splits:
0500m 1:50.0 33spm
1000m 1:49.5 33spm
1500m 1:49.6 33spm
2000m 1:46.7 36spm


This morning it was back to steady state.

01013m 0:05:00.0 2:28.1 20spm (warmup)
20000m 1:25:27.1 2:08.2 24spm
00998m 0:05:00.0 2:30.2 20spm (cooldown)

S10MPS with the monitor covered except for meters, 48 degrees, 103df, ribs wrapped, The Who on the DVD player. Working on capillaries & mitochondria, felt fine. A little slow early on but probably only because my subconcious was holding back some, feeling like it had a long way to go.

splits:
02000m 2:16.1 22spm
04000m 2:11.9 23spm
06000m 2:09.8 23spm
08000m 2:08.6 23spm
10000m 2:06.9 24spm
12000m 2:06.4 24spm
14000m 2:05.8 24spm
16000m 2:06.5 24spm
18000m 2:06.0 24spm
20000m 2:03.4 24spm

Nosmo
10k Poster
Posts: 1595
Joined: November 21st, 2006, 3:39 pm

Post by Nosmo » February 8th, 2008, 5:45 pm

whp4 wrote:
seat5 wrote:Std erg.
7777m 30:50 1:58.9/25

Nosmo, I'm not sure where you're getting the 50 seconds number...

I think we were answering different questions. I was trying to address the issue of "how far would she have gone if she set out to do a 30 minute piece." That is different from "How far did she go in the first 30 minutes".

In the first case one wants to take time off from the beginning or the main body of the piece, because she would have started her sprint sooner about 50 seconds sooner. In the second case one wants to take the time off the end of the piece.

Rowmaniac
1k Poster
Posts: 125
Joined: November 22nd, 2007, 5:51 pm
Location: California

Post by Rowmaniac » February 8th, 2008, 8:42 pm

Carla, I am really looking forward to meeting you in Boston, too. I was thinking about how helpful the support of "strangers" (now forum friends!) has been to hanging in there with this whole thing since Thanksgiving. I really feel grateful.

Veronique, good luck with the 4 x 1K tomorrow.

Bob, thanks for sharing your travel story. It's always fascinating to view a new place through the eyes of someone else. Sometimes it takes a few hundred (or thousand) miles of travel to make us really appreciate home. I understand your lack of desire to return to Boston, but I hope you know how admirable your results were at LB.

Rick and Trevor, thanks for the votes of confidence for PIRC. Today was another tapering day and I listened to my ipod and spent about 45 minutes on the spin bike. Nothing heavy, but hopefully enough to keep the muscles reminded that they have work to do in about 44 hours.

Yes, we have a countdown going here. And Mr. Rowmaniac finally admitted (he has been a tremendous supporter) that he is looking forward to life after February 24.

I know just how he feels. :?
Deborah - F 45 HWT

TomR
6k Poster
Posts: 780
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 10:48 am

Post by TomR » February 8th, 2008, 9:00 pm

TR - 4x750/3' recovery

today--152.1/11.13.2
2007--1.48.6/10.51.8

3.5 sec/500 slower compared to a year ago.

Department of Every Cloud has a Silver Lining: 0.9 sec./500 faster than 4x3' a week ago.

I need some of Rick's mighty chondria

Bob S.
Marathon Poster
Posts: 5142
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:00 pm

Post by Bob S. » February 8th, 2008, 9:13 pm

TomR wrote: I need some of Rick's mighty chondria
Neat phrase, Tom. I like that.

Bob S.

User avatar
Rocket Roy
2k Poster
Posts: 338
Joined: October 16th, 2006, 3:59 pm
Location: London

Post by Rocket Roy » February 9th, 2008, 3:02 am

Got in at 9.30 last night and wasn't going to train ---but did anyway.

2k warm up--1.53 pace

2k sprints --20 strokes hard 20 easy

600m race start...1.40
4mr
600m race start...1.40

25 mins hard bike

slept well.

I'll have some of Rick's stuff too-----what is chondria? :wink:
Lwt 55+ World Record Holder 6.38.1 (2006-2018)
World champion 2007, 2009, 2014.
2k pb...6.34.7
cycling
25 miles...55;24
10 miles...21.03
Golf best gross 78, 8 over par.

User avatar
michaelb
2k Poster
Posts: 469
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:10 pm
Location: Burlington, Vermont

Post by michaelb » February 9th, 2008, 5:29 pm

I did my 2k tune up row today, the first 2k in over 2 years. I started slow on purpose and then tried to finish hard. I think I would be faster rowing a more even pace. Mentally it was hard to give up 2 secs and then get that back. Holding 1:43 for the final 400, with only a moderate sprint, is a good sign.

Old PB: 7:01
New: 6:59.5

splits:
400m 1:46.7
800 1:45.6
1200 1:44.6
1600 1:44.1
2000 1:43.1

I don't really know why we do this for fun, but still looking for to the crash-bs.
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13

seat5
2k Poster
Posts: 467
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 8:28 pm

Post by seat5 » February 9th, 2008, 6:42 pm

The forum has been dreadfully difficult to get to for me the last 2 days. I don't know what's up.

I continue to be amazed at how you can stomach so many 2Ks, Rick. You obviously have lots of mighty chondria. (This type of chondria is much preferred to the more commonly found hypo chondria.)

Tom, it is hard to keep training when you don't feel like there's progress compared to last year, but there is progress compared to earlier in the season and it is worth working for. Keep looking at the silver linings!

Bob, I know you are disappointed in this season but your rowing continues to inspired loads of people!

Nice PB Michael, if you can do a PB when forcing yourself to start slow and then have to catch up there must be more in the tank!

The race is Sunday--tomorrow, Deb? I'm sure you will just fly! I find myself getting in knots a bit when I let myself think about that it's only 2 weeks from now. My plan calls for tapering already this week and next and I'm very anxious because it doesn't seem like it should start being easy so soon. I am tempted to add intervals or make them longer or something.

Friday was 3 x 12 AT. Thursday when I set out to do the 7777 I had thought Friday was only 2 x 12. I have to say the last interval was hard and each one was slower, which I don't like. Also my lower back is getting sorish from so much rowing off the slides. Last year I did all TR and AN on std. erg and everything else on slides. This year I've been doing all but UT1 and UT2 std erg and I'm really feeling it. This week I cut out the squats as I'm starting to get a bit scared I might blow it out and I just can't let that happen with only 2 wks to go.

3054 1:57.8/26
3050 1:58.0/26
3004 1:59.8/26
Carla Stein--F 47 HWT

[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1193870739.png[/img]

Post Reply